Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[Tomislav95]

A Nightmare to Remember, as it appears on the album, is like if they never split Hell's Kitchen out of Burning My Soul.

Maybe, but TMOLS is a more extreme example and the most poorly structured DT song ever IMO.

Am I the only person who likes TMOLS including the wonky instrumental section in the middle?

No. There's nothing wrong with that instrumental.

[TheGreatPretender]

Am I the only person who likes TMOLS including the wonky instrumental section in the middle?

Definitely not. I love that section. And quite honestly, I think it transitions just fine in and out of that section.

Personally, I like that kind of a song structure. It's erratic, but if it's intentional, then there's nothing wrong with it. Frankly, I think it would've been better if they kept Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen one single entity. As it is, it's two fairly average songs, but together, they made a unique mini-epic.

[Whatsername]

Huh, I would have sworn I'd heard a lot of hate for it. Still, I'm not gonna complain. I think it's a fun song.

[JPX]

Am I the only person who likes TMOLS including the wonky instrumental section in the middle?

Definitely not. I love that section. And quite honestly, I think it transitions just fine in and out of that section.

Personally, I like that kind of a song structure. It's erratic, but if it's intentional, then there's nothing wrong with it. Frankly, I think it would've been better if they kept Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen one single entity. As it is, it's two fairly average songs, but together, they made a unique mini-epic.

"Hell's Kitchen" and "average song" should never be used in the same context.

[jsbru]

ADTOE was still too heavy for me. 

There are many ways I could describe ADTOE, but "heavy" is not one of them (with the exception of BITS)

See, I would consider OTBOA heavy.  It's not their heaviest song, but it's got its share of E-string plam muting and double bass, and it's mostly a song driven by distorted guitar.  It has its share of cool, progressive parts, but overall, it's on the heavier side.  I think it's a good song, though.

BMUBMD I would also consider on the heavier side of DT.  I like its slower tempo, though, and I do think it's a great song, but it's on the heavier side.  It also uses the 7-string guitar, which gives it an extra heavy sound.

And despite starting out quiet, LNF gets heavy pretty fast.  There's some parts of that song that, if you took out the vocals, you'd think it was Pantera.  The jam session is pretty awesome though.  Not their heaviest song, but it's still on the heavier side, I think.

Bridges in the Sky and Outcry are also pretty heavy.

I don't have a problem with their heavy stuff per se--after all, it was Lie that got me into the band.  I got a 7-string Ibanez 15 years ago because of that song and Caught in a Web.  But there's no non-ballad song on this album that doesn't still rely heavily on palm-muted guitar and double bass.  That's common for DT ever after Falling Into Infinity.  But listen to Trial of Tears, Lifting Shadows, Surrounded, SDV, LTL, and most of Scarred...you can go almost the entire song without hearing a palm-muted E-string.

Maybe it's just a matter of perspective.  My second favorite band is Yes, and my favorite DT albums are I&W and Awake.  This album still seems heavy to me.

[jsbru]

It's still their best work in a while, but I'd just prefer even less heaviness.

[TheGreatPretender]

"Hell's Kitchen" and "average song" should never be used in the same context.

Well, that's just, like, my opinion, man! I stand by it though. Maybe even a little bit below average. HK is definitely in the bottom 50 for me. 

[matte.braso]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

[?]

But there's no non-ballad song on this album that doesn't still rely heavily on palm-muted guitar and double bass.

Breaking All Illusions?

Anyway, DT are a progressive metal band, so there will always be some heavier stuff on their albums. Of course everyone can't be satisfied - I think ADTOE has the perfect balance between prog and metal, but you think it could've been less heavy and some fans probably thought it wasn't heavy enough. However, DT have changed over the years, due to line-up changes, new influences, etc. and their music is more modern-sounding now, which may make the heavier elements seem stronger than on the early records.


re: BMS and Hell's Kitchen - the former is ok and the latter is the second best instrumental DT have released IMO The demo version was a mess and I'm glad the songs were separated, because they work better on their own.

[dparrott]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

Uh...9/20/13

[jsbru]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

Wow...really short.  That's gotta be the shortest average song length so far, even despite Illumination Theory.  This album will be interesting.

[TheGreatPretender]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

Uh...9/20/13

German release date.

[?]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

Uh...9/20/13

(Some) Europeans will get the album earlier

[jsbru]

Breaking All Illusions?

Anyway, DT are a progressive metal band, so there will always be some heavier stuff on their albums. Of course everyone can't be satisfied - I think ADTOE has the perfect balance between prog and metal, but you think it could've been less heavy and some fans probably thought it wasn't heavy enough. However, DT have changed over the years, due to line-up changes, new influences, etc. and their music is more modern-sounding now, which may make the heavier elements seem stronger than on the early records.

Breaking All Illusions is kind of a ballad, if you ask me.  They have some ballads, lately, but what I'm missing is the "in between" area.  The non-ballad, uptempo songs that are still mostly the full band playing a progressive epic, but aren't totally driven by palm-muted guitar.  I like there to be some heavy stuff, but some in-between stuff as well.

I know they can't satisfy everyone, but all I ask for is one or two songs off an album to sound like this.  PMUPMD and BITS are probably two of their best heavy songs in the last 10 years or so, but I wish I could hear a bit more diversity within the album.

[krands85]

Huh, I would have sworn I'd heard a lot of hate for it. Still, I'm not gonna complain. I think it's a fun song.

Seems to be more of a polarizing song than I thought - I've seen quite a few people sticking up for it recently, which is great because I've always loved it too 

[TheGreatPretender]

Breaking All Illusions is kind of a ballad, if you ask me.

It's definitely not. It's a shorter epic, like Trial of Tears or Learning To Live. But definitely far from a ballad.

[jsbru]

Breaking All Illusions is kind of a ballad, if you ask me.

It's definitely not. It's a shorter epic, like Trial of Tears or Learning To Live. But definitely far from a ballad.

Sorry, you are right...I was confusing it with This is the Life.

Breaking All Illusions is probably the closest to what I'm looking for.  More of that.  I don't really like the song in particular, but style-wise, I just want to hear more of that type of song.

[mikemangioy]

A Nightmare to Remember, as it appears on the album, is like if they never split Hell's Kitchen out of Burning My Soul.

Maybe, but TMOLS is a more extreme example and the most poorly structured DT song ever IMO.

Am I the only person who likes TMOLS including the wonky instrumental section in the middle?

You are not alone, I love TMOLS too.

[robwebster]

A Nightmare to Remember, as it appears on the album, is like if they never split Hell's Kitchen out of Burning My Soul.

Maybe, but TMOLS is a more extreme example and the most poorly structured DT song ever IMO.

You think the mid-section would stand on its own?

Cos I didn't mean the Hell's Kitchen thing as a lengthy shorthand for "It's got a funny bit in the middle," I meant it in the sense that it is one song that I think would be much better off split into two distinct tracks. Hell's Kitchen got its dues and is, in my opinion, now a much stronger piece than it was when written as the middle bit of Burning My Soul, but I think they missed a very nifty trick in not doing the same thing with Beautiful Agony.

[OsMosis2259]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

68 mins? Feels a little short. Usually DT albums are 75+mins.

[jsbru]

I'm in the camp that thinks Burning my Soul and Hell's Kitchen should have never been separated.  That would give that album 3 mini-epics: BMS, LITS, and TOT.

[SuperTaco]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

68 mins? Feels a little short. Usually DT albums are 75+mins.

The total length means very little to me. It's about the quality of the music. Besides, 68 minutes is still a lot longer than a lot of albums released these days.

[wolven74]

All the track lengths have been known around DTF for at least two weeks (since the first listening party I think)

How is this new? 

[daykrush]

track lenghts officially confirmed: https://www.warnermusic.ch/catalogue_detail-n29-i16861760427-sF.html

68 mins? Feels a little short. Usually DT albums are 75+mins.

The total length means very little to me. It's about the quality of the music. Besides, 68 minutes is still a lot longer than a lot of albums released these days.

Slayer's Reign in Blood is a claasic with it's 28 minutes....

[TheGreatPretender]

Besides, 68 minutes is still a lot longer than a lot of albums released these days.

lol, Queensryche.

[wasteland]

I'm in the camp that thinks Burning my Soul and Hell's Kitchen should have never been separated.  That would give that album 3 mini-epics: BMS, LITS, and TOT.

This. But at the same time I really love Hell's Kitchen, so the ideal for me would have been them releasing the standalone instrumental in some other way, like a B-Side of one of the singles.

[TheGreatPretender]

This. But at the same time I really love Hell's Kitchen, so the ideal for me would have been them releasing the standalone instrumental in some other way, like a B-Side of one of the singles.

Greatest Hit would have been a great platform for it.

[wasteland]

True! The song enjoys a pretty big pool of dedicated fans (myself among them), but unfortunately has been relatively unknown to the wider audience because of the absolute lack of stage time. It was played far more often as part of BMS (a couple of dozens times) then by itself (4 or 5, don't remember).

/ot

[TheGreatPretender]

I do enjoy those live versions of it. Burning My Kitchen, essentially. 

But Hell's Kitchen on its own, I enjoy more in its Symphonic iteration from STOD album, than the band version.

[wasteland]

I do enjoy those live versions of it. Burning My Kitchen, essentially. 

But Hell's Kitchen on its own, I enjoy more in its Symphonic iteration from STOD album, than the band version.

That's how I've always called it too 

[Dekost]

I'm so glad Hell's Kitchen  got separated from Burning My Soul because I hate BMS, being it probably my least favourite DT song overall, and it would have sounded like a gem hidden inside a mediocre song to me.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I have to wonder if someone is even that familiar with the album if he says BAI is a ballad and then says "oh  wait, I was confusing it with a different song."

[TheGreatPretender]

I have to wonder if someone is even that familiar with the album if he says BAI is a ballad and then says "oh  wait, I was confusing it with a different song."

Meh. I confuse song titles on occasion.

[Kotowboy]

Are we still going on about the album "only" being 70 mins ?

[TheGreatPretender]

Are we still going on about the album "only" being 70 mins ?

Yes! Give us 10 minutes of filler, or give us death!