Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[Scard]

I REALLY enjoy the idea of the False Awakening Suite.

[wolven74]

'Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire'. Seriously DT?

Very Symphony X. I like it.

This will likely be a symphonic overture

[bosk1]

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

[Estiui]

And let's ask ourselves, in which song will we listen to the transcribed MIDI section?

My vote is for the opening one.

[Nihil-Morari]

Maybe Setlist Scotty is correct (why isn't he a VIP anyway?), and the song with the most subparts is the instrumental. Just like Rush did with La Vila Strangiato. No lyrics, but lots of parts in a crazy way.

Just to give some balance to my theory: it would be strange to have the opener or closer be the instrumental.

[Scard]

I think Enigma Machine, because both "enigma" and "machine" kind of embody what DT is, instrumentally. Shallow reasoning, I know, but I stick to it!

[Big Hath]

Ok, this is becoming obvious.

French song title
French-Canadian lead singer
Petrucci wears a coat with a fleur-de-lis on it

This is a concept album about one of the following:

The French Revolution
James LaBrie's ancestors, Les Habitants
The Montreal Expos

Warren Cromartie better be mentioned in the lyrics!  WWRD

[atmyne]

Personally i think it sounds just as pretentious to say the song titles sound pretentious.

exactly how I feel.

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

Definitely the most exciting piece of information imo. With longer songs, once i've played the songs from start to finish and familiarized myself with the music, i will tend to skip sections just to listen to my favorite parts (some very rare personal exceptions include ACOS and LTE: when the water breaks). I tend to listen to the whole song if it's shorter. The less of an album I will skip, i.e. filled more so with shorter songs, I think the more likely that album will have re-playability, enjoyability and captures more of my attention.

[Whatsername]

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

Definitely the most exciting piece of information imo. With longer songs, once i've played the songs from start to finish and familiarized myself with the music, i will tend to skip sections just to listen to my favorite parts (some very rare personal exceptions include ACOS and LTE: when the water breaks). I tend to listen to the whole song if it's shorter. The less of an album I will skip, i.e. filled more so with shorter songs, I think the more likely that album will have re-playability, enjoyability and captures more of my attention.

That's funny because I'm the complete opposite. Octavarium, ACOS and SDOIT (the Score version) are some of my favorite Dream Theater songs precisely because they're so long and complex and yet they have these wonderful themes and melodies running through them. Every time I listen to them and I hear an echo of the main melody it's like seeing an old friend again. I can't explain it but it's amazing. It's just interesting how people listen to music differently.   

[bosk1]

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

Definitely the most exciting piece of information imo. With longer songs, once i've played the songs from start to finish and familiarized myself with the music, i will tend to skip sections just to listen to my favorite parts (some very rare personal exceptions include ACOS and LTE: when the water breaks). I tend to listen to the whole song if it's shorter. The less of an album I will skip, i.e. filled more so with shorter songs, I think the more likely that album will have re-playability, enjoyability and captures more of my attention.

For the most part, I tend to really like the longer songs.  But that being said, when an album is just a collection of a few long songs (e.g. Black Clouds), the listening experience gets tedious and old pretty quickly, especially if a couple of those tracks don't click with me.  Having a more diverse album in terms of song length, which means more songs, and some long, medium, and shorter tracks tends to be a more enjoyable listening experience, which is one of the reasons ADTOE really worked for me.  Normally, I don't get all that excited just from a track listing.  But the number of tracks + this info from Roadrunner has me pretty happy.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Probably 8VM, ACOS and SDOIT are among the best ranked DT songs out there because their musical quality is indeed overwhelming. But, ever since Train of Thought some of DT's long songs have suffered of formula and cyclic writing. That's the reason I don't enjoy ITPOE as much as the other epics, I think part 1 is fantastic and the best thing that exists in Systematic Chaos (that's not a big accomplishment), but part 2 drags a hell lot. I really like the idea of DT toning their song lengths down a bit because it makes them make super strong songs that fit in short periods of time, which is something I miss from the Awake/FII days. On the other hand, the existence of a 20+ minute epic on the record is a way of saying "don't worry, we're not going anywhere. We know you like songs long and epic, so here you have".

This is the most pumped I've been for a DT release ever since Systematic Chaos. The only difference is that I don't think this is going to let me down.

[CodyWanKenobi]

I remember it like it was yesterday - the day ADTOE came out, as soon as I listened to it all the way through, my first thought was "holy shit, I can't wait til the next one!"

I can't believe that time is actually upon us now...

[Perpetual Change]

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

Definitely the most exciting piece of information imo. With longer songs, once i've played the songs from start to finish and familiarized myself with the music, i will tend to skip sections just to listen to my favorite parts (some very rare personal exceptions include ACOS and LTE: when the water breaks). I tend to listen to the whole song if it's shorter. The less of an album I will skip, i.e. filled more so with shorter songs, I think the more likely that album will have re-playability, enjoyability and captures more of my attention.

For the most part, I tend to really like the longer songs.  But that being said, when an album is just a collection of a few long songs (e.g. Black Clouds), the listening experience gets tedious and old pretty quickly, especially if a couple of those tracks don't click with me. 

Yeah, specifically on Black Clouds, what happened with me was, I wound up not really like 2-3 of the songs, which unfortunately meant I wound up not really liking half of the album in retrospect and I rank it pretty low now.

I would say I dislike 2 songs on ADTOE, but it doesn't seem at all like such a big deal.

[Whatsername]

I should probably have qualified all my posts by saying I've only been an actual fan of DT for a few months. I've known about them for a while and had a few of their albums but I hadn't ever sat down and actually listened to their music until fairly recently. Oh well. I'M CATCHING UP NOW!

All this talk about longer epic tracks has made me listen to ACOS again. Passing my last hour at work. 

[Voices]

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

Definitely the most exciting piece of information imo. With longer songs, once i've played the songs from start to finish and familiarized myself with the music, i will tend to skip sections just to listen to my favorite parts (some very rare personal exceptions include ACOS and LTE: when the water breaks). I tend to listen to the whole song if it's shorter. The less of an album I will skip, i.e. filled more so with shorter songs, I think the more likely that album will have re-playability, enjoyability and captures more of my attention.

For the most part, I tend to really like the longer songs.  But that being said, when an album is just a collection of a few long songs (e.g. Black Clouds), the listening experience gets tedious and old pretty quickly, especially if a couple of those tracks don't click with me.  Having a more diverse album in terms of song length, which means more songs, and some long, medium, and shorter tracks tends to be a more enjoyable listening experience, which is one of the reasons ADTOE really worked for me.  Normally, I don't get all that excited just from a track listing.  But the number of tracks + this info from Roadrunner has me pretty happy.

This.
BCSL made me happy just for a few weeks, because it got tedious very quickly. ADTOE was way more dynamic in every way.
And looking at the tracklist, this album seems to be even more dynamic than the last 3 albuns.
Couldn't be more excited!

[ariich]

I've realised something that was somewhere in the back of my mind when I first read the announcement.

Enigma Machine and Illumination Theory sound like melodeath song titles.

[atmyne]

That's funny because I'm the complete opposite. Octavarium, ACOS and SDOIT (the Score version) are some of my favorite Dream Theater songs precisely because they're so long and complex and yet they have these wonderful themes and melodies running through them. Every time I listen to them and I hear an echo of the main melody it's like seeing an old friend again. I can't explain it but it's amazing. It's just interesting how people listen to music differently.   

I agree with you on ACOS. Octavarium (the track) I can only listen to start to finish when i'm in the mood and i've got the time on my hand, which is a rare occasion for me. I disagree that SDOIT is considered a single piece of music, even though it's structured(?) that way. That's probably my favorite DT disc EVER for exactly the reason I stated previously.

For the most part, I tend to really like the longer songs.  But that being said, when an album is just a collection of a few long songs (e.g. Black Clouds), the listening experience gets tedious and old pretty quickly, especially if a couple of those tracks don't click with me.  Having a more diverse album in terms of song length, which means more songs, and some long, medium, and shorter tracks tends to be a more enjoyable listening experience, which is one of the reasons ADTOE really worked for me.  Normally, I don't get all that excited just from a track listing.  But the number of tracks + this info from Roadrunner has me pretty happy.

I agree, and am excited about the diversified song lengths we are supposedly getting this time around. Black clouds is a prime example of how an album can suffer with only longer songs: I never have an incentive to listen to the shattered fortress, nightmare to remember or the best of times (let alone bits and pieces of those), and i'm left with count, wither and arop.

[Jaffa]

I keep thinking that this really doesn't look like the track list of a Dream Theater album to me.

[Whatsername]

That's funny because I'm the complete opposite. Octavarium, ACOS and SDOIT (the Score version) are some of my favorite Dream Theater songs precisely because they're so long and complex and yet they have these wonderful themes and melodies running through them. Every time I listen to them and I hear an echo of the main melody it's like seeing an old friend again. I can't explain it but it's amazing. It's just interesting how people listen to music differently.   

I agree with you on ACOS. Octavarium (the track) I can only listen to start to finish when i'm in the mood and i've got the time on my hand, which is a rare occasion for me. I disagree that SDOIT is considered a single piece of music, even though it's structured(?) that way. That's probably my favorite DT disc EVER for exactly the reason I stated previously.

I see what you're saying about SDOIT. And perhaps I'm wrong when I think of it as one song, but for some reason that's how my brain interprets it.

[Whatsername]

When it comes to DT albums, do you find you can listen to them out of order or can you only listen to them all the way through? I find that I'm still very much in the stage where I mainly listen to the entire album all the way through although sometimes I'll listen to songs out of order. I ask because I assume I'll be the same way with DT12 as well and I was wondering if I'm in the minority. I kind of feel like these albums are an experience and so far I'm under the impression that DT12 will absolutely be the same way.

[JPX]

So, informally, we have insider info that there is a 20+ minute track (not out of line with what a lot of us probably expected), and some sub-5 minute tracks.  https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/podcast-20130705  (DT discussion is at about 1:00 - 3:20)

Definitely the most exciting piece of information imo. With longer songs, once i've played the songs from start to finish and familiarized myself with the music, i will tend to skip sections just to listen to my favorite parts (some very rare personal exceptions include ACOS and LTE: when the water breaks). I tend to listen to the whole song if it's shorter. The less of an album I will skip, i.e. filled more so with shorter songs, I think the more likely that album will have re-playability, enjoyability and captures more of my attention.

For the most part, I tend to really like the longer songs.  But that being said, when an album is just a collection of a few long songs (e.g. Black Clouds), the listening experience gets tedious and old pretty quickly, especially if a couple of those tracks don't click with me.  Having a more diverse album in terms of song length, which means more songs, and some long, medium, and shorter tracks tends to be a more enjoyable listening experience, which is one of the reasons ADTOE really worked for me.  Normally, I don't get all that excited just from a track listing.  But the number of tracks + this info from Roadrunner has me pretty happy.

This is essentially what I was trying to articulate earlier in relation to song lengths...so thank you.

[Podaar]

When it comes to DT albums, do you find you can listen to them out of order or can you only listen to them all the way through? I find that I'm still very much in the stage where I mainly listen to the entire album all the way through although sometimes I'll listen to songs out of order. I ask because I assume I'll be the same way with DT12 as well and I was wondering if I'm in the minority. I kind of feel like these albums are an experience and so far I'm under the impression that DT12 will absolutely be the same way.

Initially, and probably for several years, after their individual releases, yes. After 25 years (more now?) of listening to them I'm more able to listen on shuffle.

[edit] Except SFaM. I must listen to that as one piece.[/edit]

[jonnybaxy]

I can't not see the cut image of the earth (thanks blob!) the tracklist is very different and unique, sounds like a very experimental album. I would prefer the DT text on it at least once...

[Jaffa]

When it comes to DT albums, do you find you can listen to them out of order or can you only listen to them all the way through? I find that I'm still very much in the stage where I mainly listen to the entire album all the way through although sometimes I'll listen to songs out of order. I ask because I assume I'll be the same way with DT12 as well and I was wondering if I'm in the minority. I kind of feel like these albums are an experience and so far I'm under the impression that DT12 will absolutely be the same way.

I do both.  I love listening to DT albums all the way through, but I listen to songs out of order all the time as well. 

As for the new album, I'll definitely listen to it from start to finish when I first get it, obviously.  After that, it could go one of two ways: if there are any songs on the album that stand out from the others as definite favorites in my mind, I'll probably go back and listen to those out of order; if the album feels really cohesive and consistent in quality, then I'll listen to it all the way through again. 

[Whatsername]

I do both.  I love listening to DT albums all the way through, but I listen to songs out of order all the time as well. 

As for the new album, I'll definitely listen to it from start to finish when I first get it, obviously.  After that, it could go one of two ways: if there are any songs on the album that stand out from the others as definite favorites in my mind, I'll probably go back and listen to those out of order; if the album feels really cohesive and consistent in quality, then I'll listen to it all the way through again. 

Initially, and probably for several years, after their individual releases, yes. After 25 years (more now?) of listening to them I'm more able to listen on shuffle.

[edit] Except SFaM. I must listen to that as one piece.[/edit]

Ha! I feel justified now. I was having this conversation with a friend and he thought I was crazy for liking to listen to the entire album all the way through. Clearly I'm not as crazy as he thought I was!

[Scorpion]

You should know that we probably aren't best batch of people to judge craziness against. I mean, we're awe- and handsome and pretty witty and stuff like that, but sane? I mean, we ARE on a DT message board.

[bosk1]

I see what you're saying about SDOIT. And perhaps I'm wrong when I think of it as one song, but for some reason that's how my brain interprets it.

Well, it is one song.  But it is an unusual song in that the different movements are musically very independent of one another.  Other than the fact that the major themes are previewed in the overture and the About To Crash reprise, there are fewer reprises and common musical threads that run throughout the song than you might find in other long epics.  Add to that the fact that the band decided to add courtesy track breaks to separate each movement and the fact that they have played discreet movements rather than the entire song many times on tour, and I completely get why it feels a bit like separate songs rather than one song with separate movements.  But it absolutely is one song, so you aren't wrong by any stretch in feeling that way.

With the two songs on the new album that have multiple movements, I can't help but wonder whether either of them will be in the vein of Six Degrees or whether they will both be more "traditional" epics in the way they are structured.

[GandL]

Ok, this is becoming obvious.

French song title
French-Canadian lead singer
Petrucci wears a coat with a fleur-de-lis on it

This is a concept album about one of the following:

The French Revolution
James LaBrie's ancestors, Les Habitants
The Montreal Expos

Being from Montréal you made me spill my 'Belle Gueule' (beer brand) on my screen 

[JPX]

Additionally...Live, Die, Kill is going to be 80's Metallica sounding me thinks. Like a combo of TTTSTA And Constant Motion but with a thashier vibe.

[Whatsername]

You should know that we probably aren't best batch of people to judge craziness against. I mean, we're awe- and handsome and pretty witty and stuff like that, but sane? I mean, we ARE on a DT message board.

Yeah after I posted that I was like, huh maybe I am a bit crazy. After all I read through 100+ pages of the last thread and decided to join in!

[Jaffa]

Ha! I feel justified now. I was having this conversation with a friend and he thought I was crazy for liking to listen to the entire album all the way through. Clearly I'm not as crazy as he thought I was!

I do not recommend using DTF as a measure of sanity.   

That being said, I think it's perfectly normal to listen to full albums from start to finish.  I think it's a little odd if you never listen to single songs out of order, but, hey - whatever works for you!

[atmyne]

I see what you're saying about SDOIT. And perhaps I'm wrong when I think of it as one song, but for some reason that's how my brain interprets it.

Well now that I think about it, I usually do play this album as a single piece of music, and I suppose it is technically one song; but yeah it's also essentially an 8 track record. Each track really comes into its own though, each one distinct and with their own personality: Evoking a different emotion/mood in the listener, and having varying sonic scope. In that sense they feel separated, despite how each track seamlessly flows into each other. It's a 40-ish minute disc that has more depth than Systematic chaos or BC&SL, or heck even both of them put together... AND it's still feels very DT too!
SDOIT is a prime example of why one should be excited for the upcoming album: a concise DT mixed with a lengthy DT is a killer formula for impending awesomeness.

EDIT: bosker ninja'd what I was saying but was more eloquently articulated. the force is indeed strong with him...

[bosk1]

Additionally...Live, Die, Kill is going to be 80's Metallica sounding me thinks. Like a combo of TTTSTA And Constant Motion but with a thashier vibe.

The title would certainly suggest that.  I get a similar vibe.  ...which means we are probably dead wrong. 

[Whatsername]

I do not recommend using DTF as a measure of sanity.   

That being said, I think it's perfectly normal to listen to full albums from start to finish.  I think it's a little odd if you never listen to single songs out of order, but, hey - whatever works for you!

Well not NEVER, just less often. I personally can't listen to the entirety of BC&SL but Wither is one of my favorite songs of all-time, so that one gets a lot of play. Also TCOT was  one of the first Dream Theater songs I ever heard (I think the absolute first one was Panic Attack on RB2), so occasionally I play that one for nostalgia's sake.

Also Wait for Sleep, because that piano is the most beautiful thing in the world. 

[Whatsername]

SDOIT is a prime example of why one should be excited for the upcoming album: a concise DT mixed with a lengthy DT is a killer formula for impending awesomeness.

Exactly! If DT12 reaches the same level of creativity and complexity and depth and... other adjectives I can't think of, then I will be one happy camper. We already know it's going to be rich and chocolatey, so that's a good start!