Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[wasteland]

Hey, welcome to the forums, mate!

And great post there 

[BlobVanDam]

Moreover we got a first impression from CRPProg stating that the album is indeed different from ADTOE. You would assume they know. This guy here is stating the exact opposite.

The CRPP "review" gave me the impression it's not ADTOE II, but not radically different either. I bet the amount of stylistical differences between these two albums depends on how you see them.

I agree it could be a subjective assessment based on what elements you're focusing on. Even on this forum some people think certain DT albums sound very similar when I think they're quite different. It all comes down to what you're judging it by.
Every DT album shares some common elements, many of which are part of what defines DT as a band.

I don't think anybody is expecting this album to be a 180 degree turn from ADTOE, and I know a lot of people wouldn't want that either. It's going to be an evolution from that, a natural progression. There will be some new elements, some familiar elements, and a different balance that will give it a unique feel among their other albums.

For now, I'm doubting this guy is even legit, so I'm disregarding it anyway.

[The Stray Seed]

You dudes, did we really have a 2-page freakout over a non-legit non-review? The dude just calculated his move and said the things that would rustle maximum jimmies with still being believable (if he'd said Petrucci had no solos, for example, that would have been unbelievable).

Of course. He may have very well seen the chart and drawn assumptions from there regarding Jordan's presence. And I believe that there's no chance in hell the drums will sound bad this time. Absolutely nihil.

Moreover we got a first impression from CRPProg stating that the album is indeed different from ADTOE. You would assume they know. This guy here is stating the exact opposite.

Absolutely agree with you both.

[MoraWintersoul]

You dudes, did we really have a 2-page freakout over a non-legit non-review? The dude just calculated his move and said the things that would rustle maximum jimmies with still being believable (if he'd said Petrucci had no solos, for example, that would have been unbelievable).

Of course. He may have very well seen the chart and drawn assumptions from there regarding Jordan's presence. And I believe that there's no chance in hell the drums will sound bad this time. Absolutely nihil.

Moreover we got a first impression from CRPProg stating that the album is indeed different from ADTOE. You would assume they know. This guy here is stating the exact opposite.

Absolutely agree with you both.

I like it when Italian men agree with me

Welcome mike, awesome avatar!

[LBC.]

I wanted a composition process with Mangini fully involved  . DT includes that.

I wanted an instrumental  . DT12 includes that.

I wanted Myung lyrics. DT12 includes that.

I wanted an orchestra. DT12 includes that.

I wanted suites. DT12 includes that.

I wanted 20 or more minutes epic. DT12 includes that.

I wanted a black cover. DT12 includes that.

I wanted a new mixer engineer. DT12 includes that.

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album  .

I WANT A KILLER DRUM SOUND  . We got to expect.

I WANT AN ELEGANT AND CLASSY JORDAN  . We got to expect.

[BlobVanDam]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album  .

wut.

[?]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album  .

wut.

[matte.braso]

I'm really looking forward for a track by track description like Rich Wilson did 2 years ago,  especially from the band members (around one month before the release roadrunnergermany interviewed JP and JLB for that)

[TheGreatPretender]

I'm really looking forward for a track by track description like Rich Wilson did 2 years ago,  especially from the band members (around one month before the release roadrunnergermany interviewed JP and JLB for that)

Personally, I would rather hear the songs first and let my own imagination form an opinion of what they're about, before actually finding out.

[mikemangioy]

You dudes, did we really have a 2-page freakout over a non-legit non-review? The dude just calculated his move and said the things that would rustle maximum jimmies with still being believable (if he'd said Petrucci had no solos, for example, that would have been unbelievable).

Of course. He may have very well seen the chart and drawn assumptions from there regarding Jordan's presence. And I believe that there's no chance in hell the drums will sound bad this time. Absolutely nihil.

Moreover we got a first impression from CRPProg stating that the album is indeed different from ADTOE. You would assume they know. This guy here is stating the exact opposite.

Absolutely agree with you both.

I like it when Italian men agree with me

Welcome mike, awesome avatar!

Hey, welcome to the forums, mate!

And great post there 

thanks guys!

[mellotron_scratch]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album  .

[LBC.]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album  .

Why the facepalm?

DT is the name of the album, and look at the song titles.

To me, it will be a concept album.

[?]

I'm sorry, but you can't tell if it's a concept album until you have the lyrics or the band explicitly say it has a concept.

[BlobVanDam]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album  .

Why the facepalm?

DT is the name of the album, and look at the song titles.

To me, it will be a concept album.

You stated it as fact though, but it's just speculation, and people may mistake your comment as something confirmed.

There is no evidence at this point that it's a concept album. I can't say that it won't be, but there's just nothing to support that claim at this point.

[Super Dude]

I seriously doubt it will be. The band has stated several times that they're done with that.

[aprilethereal]

No, we just wait for free food from the Red Cross to survive. And we all really apologize for having the nerves to exist on the planet and pollute your Free World. Sheesh...

Of course every legitimate media in the music biz receives all promos issued by Roadrunner. When ADTOE came out, it was a watermarked digital stream which I had the chance to have access to. It was released almost simultaneously with Opeth's Watershed promo.

great post.

Btw, Watershed was released three years before ADTOE

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album

Seriously . Why do people still believe that? There is absolutely no evidence.

[serrano]

The concept could be to have different lyrical themes for the different songs 

[matte.braso]

it's almost impossible it is a concept like SFAM, most probably the lyrics will be related to a common theme (light/darkness, dream, ecc..) like ADTOE (dramatic stories), and Black Clouds (real stories, autobiographical events). Also we are expecting some reprises of musical themes, but that's part of their own style and we see that in most of their albums.

[MoraWintersoul]

Btw, Watershed was released three years before ADTOE

He probs meant Heritage

[serrano]

it's almost impossible it is a concept like SFAM, most probably the lyrics will be related to a common theme (light/darkness, dream, ecc..) like ADTOE (dramatic stories), and Black Clouds (real stories, autobiographical events). Also we are expecting some reprises of musical themes, but that's part of their own style and we see that in most of their albums.

Where does AROP fit into the Black Clouds "theme"?

[Kotowboy]

Prediction

4:26 - 4:52 of Enigma Machine is going to blow minds



(disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing.)

Saving this for when the CD is out

[me7]

Where does AROP fit into the Black Clouds "theme"?

It doesn't. AROP doesn't fit the concept. The lyrics of the other songs are about "bad things" that turn out good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_lining_(idiom)
ANTR is about a car accident without casualties. Wither about writer's bock defeated by a song about writer's block. TSF about how MP defeats his addiction and becomes a stronger person. TBOT about the good memories MP keeps from his dying father. TCOT about a horror story that turns out to be a misunderstanding (albeit very badly told).

[Kotowboy]

Would you rather have an 80 minute CD of half-assed and weak but long songs with an amazing drum sound and solos all over the place ?

Or

A 40 minute CD of the absolute best music Dream Theater have ever done even if the drums sound like they do on ADToE again ?


Second option for me because length does not equal quality.

[Elite]

Prediction

4:26 - 4:52 of Enigma Machine is going to blow minds

(disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing.)

Saving this for when the CD is out

We'll all laugh when it turns out Enigma Machine is shorter than 3 minutes.

it's almost impossible it is a concept like SFAM, most probably the lyrics will be related to a common theme (light/darkness, dream, ecc..) like ADTOE (dramatic stories), and Black Clouds (real stories, autobiographical events). Also we are expecting some reprises of musical themes, but that's part of their own style and we see that in most of their albums.

Where does AROP fit into the Black Clouds "theme"?

BC&SL tells stories of things that are horrible (black clouds) yet end nicely (silver linings). It's there in every single song on the record. Ever heard of what a Rite of Passage actually is? It's a ritual or a tradition of passing from one state into another. Traditionally it's the growing up of a boy into manhood and he's tasked with some stuff he must achieve to get to the 'other side', to become a 'man'. I suppose the 'black cloud' here is the challenge itself, while the outcome, the result of the rite of passage is the 'silver lining'.

Note: I could be wrong here

[jonnybaxy]

AROP is about free masonry isn't it?

[serrano]

It is.

Edit: My point is, that having a "theme" doesn't mean that every song has to fit.

Edit: Of course you could always make it fit if you wish and if the lyrics have room for interpretation.

[cyberdrummer]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album

Seriously . Why do people still believe that? There is absolutely no evidence.

To be fair, there's no evidence either way. I still have a hunch that it will have a concept of sorts.

[Elite]

AROP is about free masonry isn't it?

And freemasonry is exactly that; a fraternal organisation that requires a rite of passage for a boy to transcend into manhood. At least, that's what the stories tell.

[BlobVanDam]

I wanted a concept album. DT is a concept album

Seriously . Why do people still believe that? There is absolutely no evidence.

To be fair, there's no evidence either way. I still have a hunch that it will have a concept of sorts.

And given a lack of evidence, the default position is that it's not a concept album, not that there's a 50/50 chance it could go either way.

[cyberdrummer]

You're right. But I don't see why speculating that it is a concept album is such a problem for some people. It's only a bit of fun.

[BlobVanDam]

There's nothing at all wrong with speculation (after all, this is DTF, and we are the masters of speculation!), the issue here was mostly LBC stating almost as fact that it definitely was a concept album, currently with no evidence to support it, let alone prove it.

Maybe it is a concept album, maybe it isn't. Personally, I don't see any reason for the discussion even coming up, as there's no proof at all imo. And I don't know why some people love the idea of a concept album so much to begin with (and I say this as a guy with SFAM as my #2 DT album). Maybe it's just another one of those prog things I'll never understand.

[cyberdrummer]

Fair enough, though LBC did have a wink by his post.

While I agree there's no proof, I'm slightly encouraged (probably naively) by a few odd words let slip by band members. JP mentioned in one interview that there was a real focus to the album ( or something along those lines); JR in the latest In Studio video used the word 'concept' when describing the process that goes into making an album. I'm also keeping in mind the fact that before MP left, they were about to head into the studio to write a concept album.

Yes it's hopeful, yes it's speculation, but this is the first time that I've genuinely had an inkling about a DT album. It also helps that I love SFAM.

[matte.braso]

Also the concept is always explained in the title: Octavarium (number 8), A Dramatic Turn of Events, Black Clouds and Silver Linings (as you've already said). The next one hasn't got a title, so it's pretty unlikely we'll have a clear concept

[cyberdrummer]

Also the concept is always explained in the title: Octavarium (number 8), A Dramatic Turn of Events, Black Clouds and Silver Linings (as you've already said). The next one hasn't got a title, so it's pretty unlikely we'll have a clear concept

Only one of those is a concept album in my opinion. And just because that is a pattern that exists in the past, it doesn't act as a requirement of the new record (which does have a title). Even if it did, who's to say it's not going to be a concept album about a Theater of Dreams?

[BlobVanDam]

I was a thumbs up, not a wink. The wink is just incidental!

To me those things sound pretty standard for DT, even for a non concept album. I'm sure they've talked about having a clear focus and a theme/concept to an album for many of their albums (maybe not in those exact words, but terms that could easily be interpreted that way).

Just to make it clear, I'm not trying to negate the idea, I just don't personally feel like there's been enough evidence to have any expectation of one. I really won't mind either way, as long as it's good music, I just don't fully understand why some people get so excited at the idea. And again, that's even taking into account that I think SFAM is damn near untouchable!

Also the concept is always explained in the title: Octavarium (number 8), A Dramatic Turn of Events, Black Clouds and Silver Linings (as you've already said). The next one hasn't got a title, so it's pretty unlikely we'll have a clear concept

Only one of those is a concept album in my opinion. And just because that is a pattern that exists in the past, it doesn't act as a requirement of the new record (which does have a title). Even if it did, who's to say it's not going to be a concept album about a Theater of Dreams?

None of them is a concept album! DAAAAAAHHHHH it's going to be a long night.