Least favorite three album run by Dream Theater

[MadImmortalMan]

The Roadrunner albums. Something happened after Octavarium and I still don't really know what.

[aprilethereal]

The Roadrunner albums. Something happened after Octavarium and I still don't really know what.

MP trying to make "cool and modern" albums.

[BlobVanDam]

The Roadrunner albums. Something happened after Octavarium and I still don't really know what.

MP trying to make "cool and modern" albums.

MP wasn't the one writing all the music. Sure he had an influence, but it takes a band to write an album, and The Enemy Inside isn't too far off what they were trying to do on those "cool and modern" albums.

[SubV]

WDADU, SC and BC&SL are the worst.

[aprilethereal]

The Roadrunner albums. Something happened after Octavarium and I still don't really know what.

MP trying to make "cool and modern" albums.

MP wasn't the one writing all the music. Sure he had an influence, but it takes a band to write an album, and The Enemy Inside isn't too far off what they were trying to do on those "cool and modern" albums.

I watched the SC documentary again two days ago, and it was MP saying that he wanted the album to be "cool and modern".

[BlobVanDam]

The Roadrunner albums. Something happened after Octavarium and I still don't really know what.

MP trying to make "cool and modern" albums.

MP wasn't the one writing all the music. Sure he had an influence, but it takes a band to write an album, and The Enemy Inside isn't too far off what they were trying to do on those "cool and modern" albums.

I watched the SC documentary again two days ago, and it was MP saying that he wanted the album to be "cool and modern".

My points still remain. It's not like MP was holding a gun to Petrucci's head and saying "make that riff more cool and modern sounding!". Those albums were produced by Portnoy AND Petrucci, and Petrucci (and JR and JM) are the main songwriters.
MP undeniably had an influence, but he's not a scapegoat for every problem on recent albums. Personally, I rank ADTOE the same as SC/BCASL, and ADTOE wore out on me a LOT quicker, so Portnoy's influence is not a major factor to me.

[aprilethereal]

That's right, but I still find it striking that the songwriting on ADTOE was much less "cool" and less "modern" and (IMO) better than on SC and BC&SL.

[BlobVanDam]

That's right, but I still find it striking that the songwriting on ADTOE was much less "cool" and less "modern" and (IMO) better than on SC and BC&SL.

I don't find it striking at all. DT have always changed their sound from album to album. They did ToT as a balls to the wall heavy album with longer shreddy songs, then to balance it out they did Octavarium after that, which consisted of some shortier poppier songs, and more classic prog stuff. Then they switched after that and did a heavy album about monsters. SC and BCASL were only two heavy albums in a row. That doesn't make a pattern.
And from what we've heard of DT12 so far, I'm seeing possibly the same switch, with possibly another very heavy and modern sounding album. We can't establish a pattern from post-MP DT either. There's not enough to base it on.

I don't know what's wrong with cool and modern anyway (or why we're still putting those words in quotes). Those albums excite me much more than ADTOE, which to me sounded less interesting and fresh. Just my opinion, of course.

[aprilethereal]

Okay blob, you won

I put "cool and modern" in quotes because it's a quote from MP from the SC documentary.

[BlobVanDam]

I know, I was just getting tired of doing all the quotation marks.

I accept that a lot of people love ADTOE a lot more than SC/BCASL (and more than I like it), but for me they all have their strengths and weaknesses that put them around the same level.
For me ADTOE improved in certain areas, and then in other areas I feel it lost a little ground, but overall I didn't feel like there was a major increase or decrease in quality that I would attribute solely to MP's departure. Maybe I'll change my mind with DT12. I love The Enemy Inside, so that's a promising start.

[aprilethereal]

Out of curiosity, where do you think ADTOE lost a little ground? I really like SC, and BC&SL is good, but for me, ADTOE blows both out of the water in every aspect.

[BlobVanDam]

Out of curiosity, where do you think ADTOE lost a little ground? I really like SC, and BC&SL is good, but for me, ADTOE blows both out of the water in every aspect.

To me ADTOE has less energy, is safer, and I miss the 3 part harmonies. The harmonies seemed less frequent and less layered than the previous albums. I actually do miss the sound of JLB's voice over JP and MP's voice (deal with it ).
I also didn't enjoy JP's solos as much as previous albums (for all the criticisms of BCASL, JP's solos are absolute killer on it, same with SC), and I much preferred some of the instrumental work on them (TCOT is instrumentally amazing, TDEN's instrumental section is one of my favourites, and ITPOE pt 1 is excellent too)

The areas where I felt it gained ground where in the greater diversity of song styles over the album, the much better balance of song lengths, and better utilizing JM. It was a more consistent album, but imo at the expense of both lows and highs.

That's just my opinion of course, so no need to hector me about it! (I just wanted to say hector)

[Jaq]

8VM to BCSL. They're the albums where "inspiration corner" gets hit a little too hard and a little too often, the ones where the rest of the band starts to clash with MP over where they're going in terms of musical direction, climaxing with the misjudgment of the death metal section of ANTR, and the three albums that are the most uninspired the band's ever been. They sound tired a lot of the time. It starts with TROAE, which to me is the precise point where the rest of the band got tired of re-writing The Mirror so MP could keep his AA suite going (and honestly, I think by this point in time even MP may have been getting tired of it, since TROAE is the shortest song in the suite and just feels like the band banged it out so they could get it over with) and ends with the musically amazing but lyrically ridiculous TCOT. The tensions that we didn't know were in the band at the time these albums came out are obvious now when you listen to those three albums.

[BlobVanDam]

8VM to BCSL. They're the albums where "inspiration corner" gets hit a little too hard and a little too often, the ones where the rest of the band starts to clash with MP over where they're going in terms of musical direction, climaxing with the misjudgment of the death metal section of ANTR, and the three albums that are the most uninspired the band's ever been. They sound tired a lot of the time. It starts with TROAE, which to me is the precise point where the rest of the band got tired of re-writing The Mirror so MP could keep his AA suite going (and honestly, I think by this point in time even MP may have been getting tired of it, since TROAE is the shortest song in the suite and just feels like the band banged it out so they could get it over with) and ends with the musically amazing but lyrically ridiculous TCOT. The tensions that we didn't know were in the band at the time these albums came out are obvious now when you listen to those three albums.

I'd hardly say an 8 and a half minute song is "banging out" a song to get it over with. And then Repentance was 10 minutes, and TSF was 13 minutes. I don't even see an argument on that basis. I'd say it has a lot more to do with pacing and variety. The suite already had a 14 minute and 12 minute metal assault, so it made sense to have a bit of a shorter song with a change of pace. To try and fit that into a theory that MP/the band were sick of the 12SS is baseless speculation at best.

Personally I've never understood how people think those albums sound tired. To me ADTOE is the more tired sounding album. SC and BCASL are so energy and so powah, and as JLB even said, he had more fun making SC than any other album up until that point, and it showed imo.

[aprilethereal]

Yes, SC is energy and powah in a fun and really enjoyable way, but to me, BC&SL seems like it's forced energy and powah just for the sake of it.

[BlobVanDam]

Yes, SC is energy and powah in a fun and really enjoyable way, but to me, BC&SL seems like it's forced energy and powah just for the sake of it.

I can see it for BCASL more so, but I still don't really agree with it, although TSF does feel uninspired.

[Lucien]

Doesn't it technically end with Raw Dog?

[krieger]

As of today, if we sum up the data, we get for 8VM and amazing 61.8%! 

But SC is the leader - 89.6%! 

I just hate that album... yesterday I was listening to it, just to see if I was missing something.

IMHO, the best song in SC is not good enough to be on FII, a good but not fantastic album - not even in the place of Anna Lee. SC sounds to me as a collections of demos and B-sides. 

And who let MP sing?

(Of course this addition should not be made for WDADU, IW, BCSL and ADTOE, as they show up only twice).

[hefdaddy42]

Doesn't it technically end with Raw Dog?

Doesn't WHAT technically end with Raw Dog?

[Lucien]

8VM to BCSL. They're the albums where "inspiration corner" gets hit a little too hard and a little too often, the ones where the rest of the band starts to clash with MP over where they're going in terms of musical direction, climaxing with the misjudgment of the death metal section of ANTR, and the three albums that are the most uninspired the band's ever been. They sound tired a lot of the time. It starts with TROAE, which to me is the precise point where the rest of the band got tired of re-writing The Mirror so MP could keep his AA suite going (and honestly, I think by this point in time even MP may have been getting tired of it, since TROAE is the shortest song in the suite and just feels like the band banged it out so they could get it over with) and ends with the musically amazing but lyrically ridiculous TCOT. The tensions that we didn't know were in the band at the time these albums came out are obvious now when you listen to those three albums.

This.

Doesn't it technically end with Raw Dog?

Doesn't WHAT technically end with Raw Dog?