Octavarium Vinyl - Suggestions?

[JoshuaB2112]

I know I'm new, but I have some thoughts I'd like to share with you. I am aware that there is a strong desire among the DT community for more albums from the back catalogue to be released on Vinyl, and that would be great. Although I'm more of a singles person than an albums person, and I prefer listening to DT one song at a time for it to sink in, my top three DT albums are Images & Words, Black Clouds, and Octavarium and I am very happy that two of those three have already been released as LPs. The trouble with an Octavarium Vinyl release, which I don't think many people have taken into account, is the fact that the album is rather inconveniently split into three "Ranges" (IE: Tracks 1-4 from F to B, Tracks 5-7 from C to E, Track 8 must all fit on one side). Therefore, the ideal potential tracklist would look something like this;

Side A: Root Of All Evil/The Answer Lies Within/These Walls/I Walk Beside You
Side B: Panic Attack/Never Enough/Sacrificed Sons
Side C: Octavarium
Side D: (blank)

Three-sided Vinyl is not so common these days, and definitely not something Brookvale Records would be keen on doing, so I have started this thread for you to share your opinions on how to fill up the remaining side (Or sides, if they decide they have enough bonus material to go the 3LP route). Instrumentals? Alternate Takes? Live versions? Or should they just split the Negative Tracks in half and go with 4 sides. Thanks!

[JoshuaB2112]

BTW When I say "Singles" person, I'm not restricting myself to just songs that were released as singles, I mean I prefer cherry picking songs from albums that have gotten good response and work my way through them one by one.

[darkshade]

I'm pretty sure that the band were not putting the album together with vinyl in mind, as in 2004/2005, vinyl hadn't yet made the comeback it would make a couple of years later. What you suggested would probably be what would be done, maybe they could put bonus stuff on side D, maybe bonus live stuff.

But for now, to spread it across both LPs, I think it would look like this:

Side A:
The Root Of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within

Side B:
These Walls
I Walk Beside You

Side C:
Panic Attack
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons

Side D:
Octavarium

[Zook]

I'd go with the 3 sided vinyl. Having only two songs on a side is a waste.... having only one long ass song on a side is an exception ok?!

[darkshade]

I'd go with the 3 sided vinyl. Having only two songs on a side is a waste....

But having a blank side of a vinyl makes it feel like a waste too.

Don't BC&SL and ADTOE vinyls have only 1-2 songs per side, too?

having only one long ass song on a side is an exception ok?!

Tell that to almost every prog album from the 70s.

[DebraKadabra]

Don't BC&SL and ADTOE vinyls have only 1-2 songs per side, too?

Not sure about the ADTOE vinyl, but BC/SL does.

[Zook]

I'm just thinking in terms of song length. TROAE and TALW together is like 12 minutes. You'll be flipping the thing before you can blink.

I'm not a vinyl guy though. The only vinyl I'll ever own one day is Night of the Stormrider by Iced Earth if I ever find it cheap enough and even then, it's only for collection purposes and it'll never get played.

The more you know.

[hefdaddy42]

A completely empty side of vinyl is one of the silliest-sounding ideas I've ever heard.

[Sketchy]

I'm pretty sure that the band were not putting the album together with vinyl in mind, as in 2004/2005, vinyl hadn't yet made the comeback it would make a couple of years later. What you suggested would probably be what would be done, maybe they could put bonus stuff on side D, maybe bonus live stuff.

But for now, to spread it across both LPs, I think it would look like this:

Side A:
The Root Of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within

Side B:
These Walls
I Walk Beside You

Side C:
Panic Attack
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons

Side D:
Octavarium

I personally think this one works best. Besides, after TALW feels like a good place to split it. I'd probably put Panic Attack on B, even though that intro rocks hard as a third side opener.

[Jaq]

I do think 3 sided would work better than having 12 minute long sides  I hate when I see a band take a 45-50 minute long album and release it as a double album on vinyl with like, 10 minute long sides.

[Lolzeez]

Don't BC&SL and ADTOE vinyls have only 1-2 songs per side, too?

Not ADTOE but BC&SL does.

[JoshuaB2112]

Thanks for your comments! I can see that even in a strong community, everyone has a story to tell, and that's great.

[JoshuaB2112]

I hate when I see a band take a 45-50 minute long album and release it as a double album on vinyl with like, 10 minute long sides.

Yeah that's f-d up. There's a band from Ireland called The Answer who brought out their second album, which has a running time of 48 mis, as a limited edition 3 sided vinyl with the fourth side blank, but autographed by the band. I don't recommend it be done again - Joe Bonamassa makes albums that go for 64 minutes, yet he somehow manages to squeeze it all onto one LP!

[The Letter M]

I've always said it should be:

A - TROAE, TALW, TW
B - IWBY, PA
C - NE, SS
D - 8VM

-Marc.

[Zook]

I've always said it should be:

A - TROAE, TALW, TW
B - IWBY, PA
C - NE, SS
D - 8VM

-Marc.

That would interrupt the segue between These Walls and I Walk Beside You.

[The Letter M]

I've always said it should be:

A - TROAE, TALW, TW
B - IWBY, PA
C - NE, SS
D - 8VM

-Marc.

That would interrupt the segue between These Walls and I Walk Beside You.

OH RIGHT... I meant TROAE/TALW for Side A, and TW/IWBY/PA for Side B.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26997.msg1028436#msg1028436

Above post is 100% correct. It's such a crying shame that they haven't been pressed yet. I will be a very happy boy the day I hold the LP edition of SDOIT in my hands.

That'd be nice!

Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence as vinyl:
Side 1 - The Glass Prison
Side 2 - Blind Faith, Misunderstood
Side 3 - The Great Debate
Side 4 - Disappear
Side 5 - SDOIT (I-IV)
Side 6 - SDOIT (V-VIII)

Probably the best way to do it, and oddly enough, the album would have SIX sides.

As for the rest? Here are my best estimations as for how splitting up the albums would work on vinyl...

Train Of Thought as vinyl:
Side 1 - As I Am, This Dying Soul
Side 2 - Endless Sacrifice, Honor Thy Father
Side 3 - Vacant, Stream Of Consciousness
Side 4 - In The Name Of God

Octavarium as vinyl:
Side 1 - The Root Of All Evil, The Answer Lies Within
Side 2 - These Walls, I Walk Beside You, Panic Attack
Side 3 - Never Enough, Sacrificed Sons
Side 4 - Octavarium

Scenes From A Memory as vinyl: (LP 1 as Act I, LP 2 as Act II)
Side 1 - Regression, Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu, Through My Words, Fatal Tragedy
Side 2 - Beyond This Life, Through Her Eyes
Side 3 - Home, The Dance Of Eternity, One Last Time
Side 4 - The Spirit Carries On, Finally Free

Falling Into Infinity as vinyl:
Side 1 - New Millennium, You Not Me, Peruvian Skies
Side 2 - Hollow Years, Burning My Soul, Hell's Kitchen
Side 3 - Lines In The Sand, Take Away My Pain
Side 4 - Just Let Me Breathe, Anna Lee, Trial Of Tears

-Marc.

-Marc.

[Zook]

They'd have to do some remixing for FII because of HK and LITS, and those two don't sound right separated.

[JoshuaB2112]

Side A:
The Root Of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within

Side B:
These Walls
I Walk Beside You

Side C:
Panic Attack
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons

Side D:
Octavarium

Thank you for your wisdom, Darkshade. I agree that that is the best way to do it and much better than the idea I had. Rival Sons' last Vinyl release was one 40 minute record and one 20 minute record, so putting the first "Range" on 2 sides of one LP would work, because they can end Side 1 with the fade out from Answer and start Side 2 with the "Pitch Shifting" before These Walls. Thanks, man!

[Ħ]

Three sided vinyl, side D is a couple bonus tracks from the FII demos.

[Mosh]

They'd have to do some remixing for FII because of HK and LITS, and those two don't sound right separated.

Put Hollow Years on Side 3 with Take Away My Pain. Those two would work well together I think. Also add Just Let Me Breathe to even out the lengths a bit. Anna Lee would make a better side opener anyway.

[darkshade]

I'm pretty sure that the band were not putting the album together with vinyl in mind, as in 2004/2005, vinyl hadn't yet made the comeback it would make a couple of years later. What you suggested would probably be what would be done, maybe they could put bonus stuff on side D, maybe bonus live stuff.

But for now, to spread it across both LPs, I think it would look like this:

Side A:
The Root Of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within

Side B:
These Walls
I Walk Beside You

Side C:
Panic Attack
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons

Side D:
Octavarium

I personally think this one works best. Besides, after TALW feels like a good place to split it. I'd probably put Panic Attack on B, even though that intro rocks hard as a third side opener.

Well with Panic Attack to start side 3 might bring more nuggets, as the song is in the key of C (it's a stretch, I know).

[DebraKadabra]

What kind of sauce would we be getting with those Panic Attack nuggets?

[JoshuaB2112]

I've just had a couple of thoughts - Maybe if they went the three side route for Octavarium, they could put studio versions of Another Won and Raise The Knife on side 4. Also I've just realised that there is huge potentional for a vinyl release of A Change Of Seasons, because they can add more stuff from the London Uncovered show. Which songs would U like to see? The unreleased tracks are:

Red Hill Mining Town 
(U2)
Tears 
(Rush)
Damage, Inc. 
(Metallica, Mark "Barney" Greenway on Vocals)
Happiness Is a Warm Gun 
(The Beatles, Steve Hogarth on Vocals)
Easter 
(Marillion, Steve Hogarth and Steve Rothery on Vocals and Guitar)
Winter 
(Tori Amos)
In the Dead of Night 
(U.K.)
Machine Messiah/Heart of the Sunrise/Close to the Edge/Siberian Khatru/Starship Trooper 
(Yes, Steve Howe on Guitar)

[seasonsinthesky]

A completely empty side of vinyl is one of the silliest-sounding ideas I've ever heard.

true, it's best to use all sides and make it worth pressing (and buying!) the 'wax' — but there have been some very cool releases from other bands where the final, blank side has included a badass etching or a similarly unique use.

general considerations:

the less time used per side, a) the louder the side can be, and b) the higher the quality of the music. the outermost grooves are always the best part of the disc, quality-wise; the closer you get to the centre label, the more of the high end frequencies get lost (hence the time-honoured tradition of leaving the quiet ballads to the end of the sides).

also, one can further 'justify' short side times by changing the RPM (an excuse Metallica used to put Death Magnetic on 5 LPs and charge and arm and a leg!) or dropping the size to 10" instead of 12".

the struggle is always fidelity vs. flipping frequency — you want people to be able to enjoy each side without interrupting too frequently, but you also don't want to ruin the experience by having to drop the volume or lose the highs just to accommodate a long side length. in the case of, say, the first Nine Inch Nails album, splitting it across 1 LP creates overlong side times, but stretching it over 2 LPs (even with one bonus track) would only give you 10-11 minutes of music between flips. it thus made sense for that album (when reissued/remastered) to use 3 sides, though they didn't do anything special with side D to save cost.

with all that said... i agree with Marc! he's good at this

[JoshuaB2112]

Okay, I've come up with a theory that will appease everyone. Brookvale should press 4500 copies of the Octavarium vinyl - 500 will feature three sides of music and a new etching from Hugh Syme on the fourth side; the remaining 4000 will have the 4-side tracklist that darkshade came up with. Any disagreements?

[GasparXR]

I would agree with:

Side A:
The Root of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within

Side B:
These Walls
I Walk Beside You
Panic Attack

Side C:
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons

Side D:
Octavarium

Although, this album is particularly hard to divide because of most of the songs having transitions.

[JoshuaB2112]

I would agree with:

Side A:
The Root of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within

Side B:
These Walls
I Walk Beside You
Panic Attack

Side C:
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons

Side D:
Octavarium

Although, this album is particularly hard to divide because of most of the songs having transitions.

Panic Attack has to be Side 3 track 1, no argument. Otherwise it's like trying to put Goodbye Blue Sky on the end of side 1 of The Wall. It's a waste to put I Walk Beside U and Panick Attack on the same side because of the digital silence in between them.

[GasparXR]

That is true. I'm glad I actually know what you mean about Goodbye Blue Sky.

[DebraKadabra]

Panic Attack has to be Side 3 track 1, no argument. Otherwise it's like trying to put Goodbye Blue Sky on the end of side 1 of The Wall.

GREAT analogy, dude.

[JoshuaB2112]

Today I got a Double dose of Dream Theater goodness. I woke up to the news that Live At Luna Park finally had a release date set, and this afternoon my vinyl copy of BC&SL arrived from sydney. The only way this day could get better is if Petrucci announced a Masterclass tour of Australia!

[YngVai]

I've seen three sided LPs with an etching on the blank side before.  That'd be cool to see with Octavarium, but I doubt it'd happen.