DT in the studio again!

[Lucien]

So no Paul Northfield this time.

It should at least sound different to ADToE then.

If I am remembering correctly, Northfield didn't mix ADToE either. I believe it was Andy Wallace.

Mangenius' math brain should make the album sound much different anyways

[Kotowboy]

I thought Northfield *engineered* ADToE.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I thought Northfield *engineered* ADToE.

Did he? Maybe he did. My memory is quite fallible at times.

[Kotowboy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Northfield

Yes he did.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I must admit, I'm somewhat unclear on the technical differences between engineering and mixing.

[ResultsMayVary]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the new album has the same amount of songs as Falling Into Infinity for the circle to continue?

FII - 11 songs
SFAM - 12 songs, 9 scenes
SDOIT - 6 songs
ToT - 7 songs
Octavarium - 8 songs
SC - 7 songs
BC&SL - 6 songs
ADTOE - 9 songs
DT12 - 11 songs?

It has been said already, but I refuse to accept any theory that marks Octavarium as the pinnacle of the band's career.

Though it would be nice to have something around 11 songs.

I consider this whole theory a running joke. It's hilarious how perfect this has been, despite it being a massive coincidence.

[ResultsMayVary]

I must admit, I'm somewhat unclear on the technical differences between engineering and mixing.

They both have ways to affect the final product's sound, although one could argue the mixing is a larger factor on the album's final sonic product. The engineering mostly focuses on the way things are recorded and the mixing is changing levels of tracks to reflect an overall general sound of a song/album.

Disclaimer: I realized I have really simplified these processes, to avoid writing more than one sentence.

EDIT: My apologies to the mods for the double-post.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I must admit, I'm somewhat unclear on the technical differences between engineering and mixing.

They both have ways to affect the final product's sound, although one could argue the mixing is a larger factor on the album's final sonic product. The engineering mostly focuses on the way things are recorded and the mixing is changing levels of tracks to reflect an overall general sound of a song/album.

Disclaimer: I realized I have really simplified these processes, to avoid writing more than one sentence.

EDIT: My apologies to the mods for the double-post.

I see. Thank you, I think I have gained a portion of understanding.

[Kotowboy]

What Quagmire said.

A producer will tell the engineer how to make it sound and doesn't always have any technical ability at the desk.

The Engineer is basically a knob-twiddler and operates the desk and adds the FX like reverb etc. Plus technical stuff like compression.

Mixing is basically making every drum on the kit sound level, making the bass sit with the drums. making the rhythm guitars a nice level to the bass etc etc.

Mastering is taking that final mix and adding final overall compression and EQ  to the Left and Right stereo mix to give it a bit of sheen and punch.



Some guys do everything like Chris Sheldon ( therapy? )

Whilst some people are just producers who use trusted engineers ( Bob Rock & Randy Staub )

And some people are just producers who do next to fuck all and take all the credit at the end.

( Rick Rubin & i'm assuming the plethora of rap producers who despite working with a huge team of people,  make it sound like it was knocked

up in 5 minutes in cubase. )

[Perpetual Change]

Meh. I kinda wonder why DT keep going for these guys. I mean, Clockwork Angels was a pretty good album, but it surely didn't sound great. But there's DT for you, using the guy Rush just used, regardless of whatever

[Kotowboy]

Let's hope that DT never adopt Rush's work ethic.


Ha. Rush. How ironic. Five albums in 20 years

[Lucien]

Let's hope that DT never adopt Rush's work ethic.


Ha. Rush. How ironic. Five albums in 20 years

It's obvious they're slowing down

[rumborak]

With 20 albums that seems a well-earned luxury I would think.

[DebraKadabra]

I consider this whole theory a running joke. It's hilarious how perfect this has been, despite it being a massive coincidence.

I'm with RMV - giggity.

[nikatapi]

So no Paul Northfield this time.

It should at least sound different to ADToE then.

If I am remembering correctly, Northfield didn't mix ADToE either. I believe it was Andy Wallace.

Yeah Andy Wallace did the mix, Northfield was the engineer.

[MoraWintersoul]

So no Paul Northfield this time.

It should at least sound different to ADToE then.

If I am remembering correctly, Northfield didn't mix ADToE either. I believe it was Andy Wallace.

Mangenius' math brain should make the album sound much different anyways

[Sketchy]

What Quagmire said.


The Engineer is basically a knob-twiddler and operates the desk and adds the FX like reverb etc. Plus technical stuff like compression.

Well no, there's a huge amount more in engineering than that. You need to get microphone placement correct amongst other things, and that takes a bloody age usually. There's a lot of twanging whatever, deciding that it needs more of something or other, moving the microphone and re-iterating the entire process. Yes, the engineer is also the one who works the knobs, but there's a ton more to it than just that.

Mixing is also where a lot of tweaking with putting effects such as reverb, filters and EQ in, not just getting the levels right. Even if the levels are "right", you can still have one thing trampling over everything or being trampled over if you don't apply the correct stuff to it in the mixing stage. Mixing takes a hell of a lot of practice to get right, and has the potential to be horribly influenced by what room or kit the mixer uses.

It's especially un-simple in prog, where different sections of a single song have the potential to require vastly different mixes. I remember around the time Spock's Beard released X, one of the Beard guys saying that getting everything to change the right amount at the right rate between sections of longer songs meant that mixing a thirty second transition took roughly the same amount of time as an entire five minute song of a more straightforward nature.

The technical side of music is just as, if not even more complex and difficult than the writing and playing it.

[King Postwhore]

Let's hope that DT never adopt Rush's work ethic.


Ha. Rush. How ironic. Five albums in 20 years

Take 6 years out of that 20 for Neils souls searching after loosing his daughter and wife in a 9 month period.  We as fans were lucky Rush even came back.

[KevShmev]

Let's hope that DT never adopt Rush's work ethic.


Ha. Rush. How ironic. Five albums in 20 years

DT can only hope to have Rush's work ethic once they are all in their 50s.  It is foolish to suggest that Rush doesn't have an incredible work ethic.  Except for the hiatus from the summer of 1997-the end of 2000 (they started writing and recording Vapor Trails at the beginning of '01), which was understandable considering what Neil Peart went through, Rush has worked almost non-stop for 40 years.  Good luck finding another band who has had their work ethic for that many years.  DT's work ethic has been pretty stellar, too, for over 20 years now, but they still have a long way to go before they can touch Rush's.

As for five albums in 20 years, it is technically six if you count Feedback (from 1993-2012), and besides, the guys are pushing 60 and yet Clockwork Angels is better than anything DT has released in the last 10 years, IMO.

[MoraWintersoul]

Clockwork Angels is better than anything DT has released in the last 10 years, IMO.

Yup. Not to rag on Octavarium fans, "metal" era fans or ADTOE fans, but I completely agree with this. And I'm a pretty casual Rush fan.

[Mladen]

Clockwork angels is fantastic, but it still doesn't beat A Dramatic turn of events. 

[Ruba]

Haven't heard Clockwork Angels yet (saving the best to the last... I hope so  ), but I prefer Snakes & Arrows to anything DT has done since... um, Awake.

And I don't think DT is able to put out an album every second year when the guys are on their sixties.

[Kotowboy]

Just as long as they don't turn into TOOL who take a minimum of 5 years between albums and each time promise that the next album will be out sooner and take even longer than before.


I don't see them ever taking 5 years or more to make an album as they're not as financially comfortable yet as some bigger bands who can do that. It's still their livelihood and I think they'll want a few albums with mangini under their belt before they slow down.

[Perpetual Change]

Let's hope that DT never adopt Rush's work ethic.


Ha. Rush. How ironic. Five albums in 20 years

DT can only hope to have Rush's work ethic once they are all in their 50s.  It is foolish to suggest that Rush doesn't have an incredible work ethic.  Except for the hiatus from the summer of 1997-the end of 2000 (they started writing and recording Vapor Trails at the beginning of '01), which was understandable considering what Neil Peart went through, Rush has worked almost non-stop for 40 years.  Good luck finding another band who has had their work ethic for that many years.  DT's work ethic has been pretty stellar, too, for over 20 years now, but they still have a long way to go before they can touch Rush's.

As for five albums in 20 years, it is technically six if you count Feedback (from 1993-2012), and besides, the guys are pushing 60 and yet Clockwork Angels is better than anything DT has released in the last 10 years, IMO.

JLB is 50 I think.

[Kotowboy]

And Jordan is mid 50's by now !

Both the john's are still mid 40 so they'll be able to play a while longer.

I don't know if playing Keyboard will be that much of a strain on rudess as he gets older.

He may switch to more touch sensitive keys that are easier to shred on.

[Lucien]

Clockwork Angels is better than anything DT has released in the last 10 years, IMO.

Yup. Not to rag on Octavarium fans, "metal" era fans or ADTOE fans, but I completely agree with this. And I'm a pretty casual Rush fan.

I love Octavarium, but you can't really beat the title track. I turn by headphones all the way up so 0:31 blasts my ears out, I get goosebumps, and I explode.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Clockwork Angels is better than anything DT has released in the last 10 years, IMO.

Yup. Not to rag on Octavarium fans, "metal" era fans or ADTOE fans, but I completely agree with this. And I'm a pretty casual Rush fan.

I explode.

Sounds dangerous....

[KevShmev]

JLB is 50 I think.

And Jordan is mid 50's by now !

Both the john's are still mid 40 so they'll be able to play a while longer.

And?  The guys in Rush are 59, 59 and 60, and they have toured now four years in a row.  That is a serious work ethic there.  If DT can still do that when the average member age is 59, then we can talk.

[dparrott]

And Jordan is mid 50's by now !

Both the john's are still mid 40 so they'll be able to play a while longer.

I don't know if playing Keyboard will be that much of a strain on rudess as he gets older.

He may switch to more touch sensitive keys that are easier to shred on.

He can use that instrument full time where he just glides his fingers back and forth.  But then his shoulder will give out. 

[senecadawg2]

Soon enough Jordan will only play on his iPad

[?]

Clockwork angels is fantastic, but it still doesn't beat A Dramatic turn of events. 

Agreed. However, I (a casual Rush fan) also think Rush have a great work ethic - they still play double sets (and have played them for many, many years) despite being even older than the DT guys.

[darkshade]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the new album has the same amount of songs as Falling Into Infinity for the circle to continue?

FII - 11 songs
SFAM - 12 songs, 9 scenes
SDOIT - 6 songs
ToT - 7 songs
Octavarium - 8 songs
SC - 7 songs
BC&SL - 6 songs
ADTOE - 9 songs
DT12 - 11 songs?

It has been said already, but I refuse to accept any theory that marks Octavarium as the pinnacle of the band's career.

Though it would be nice to have something around 11 songs.

I consider this whole theory a running joke. It's hilarious how perfect this has been, despite it being a massive coincidence.

Yea, but I'll take 11 new Dream Theater songs.

[Perpetual Change]

JLB is 50 I think.

And Jordan is mid 50's by now !

Both the john's are still mid 40 so they'll be able to play a while longer.

I thought we were talking about frequency of albums released, not years touring.

[dparrott]

I hope they release a 24/96 version of the songs with the album and not months later.

[me7]

A lot of people here seem to hold FII in high regard because it has the most songs and assume that the new album will be the better the more songs it has.

I consider FII to be one of their weakest albums and I think that the large amount of short songs is just an expression of the lack of inspiration they had back then. Trying many different things but most of them not properly fleshed out.