DT in the studio again!

[King Postwhore]

ARoF didn't really need to exist

ARoF *doesn't* exist.

Sure it does! A Rite of Freemasons. Duh.

ARoF is a snooty dog barking.  Like Thurston Howell.

[Mosh]

Damn, DT should ditch their synth era already and start making good ol fashioned rawk. 

I'm just hoping there won't be too much "snarling pig" on this album. ADTOE didn't have very much, (or any that I can think of) and it was better for it.

I agree. I never liked that sound.

I like Black Clouds. It has a cool dark atmosphere that differs from Train of Thought and Awake in that it contrasts with brighter sections throughout the album. Black Clouds and Silver Linings is a fitting title.  The problem is that certain songs are needlessly long and it goes a bit overboard with the metal quite often. The reason why I don't find myself listening to it all that often is really because I don't care to sit through those overly long sections. But when I do listen to it, I usually enjoy most of it regardless of the flaws. Unlike SC (which I sort of see as its counterpart), which is always a chore to listen to.

[Lucien]

ARoP didn't really need to exist

ARoF *doesn't* exist.

Fixed.

[me7]

I never felt BC&SL to be too metal. The only time DT were too much (bland) metal for me was in SC, where we get Constant Motion and TDEN back to back - followed by the way to long Repentance and a silly Prophets of War
BC&SL sounds fine to me, only AROP should have been replaced by a better song.

But this discussion suites a general attitude of some people who want to downplay how metal DT always were and how much they were influenced by Metallica. There is some interview with JP where he says that DT was conceived as a crossover of Yes and Metallica, I wish I remembered which one it was.

EDIT: I don't mean to downplay the influence that Iron Maiden, Rush, King Crimson, Queen and possibly a lot of other bands had on DT. I just want remark how Metallica is sometimes dismissed by prog lovers and how people complain about DT becoming metal in recent years.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm not anti-metal. I just can't stand the type of metal Metallica do.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm not anti-metal. I just can't stand the type of metal Metallica do.

That's like saying you like The Fast and the Furious, but can't stand the bit with the cars.
I don't accept someone is a metal fan unless they respect the Metallica's music. It's like the most basic requirement to pass the metal test.

[me7]

What if someone loves Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, but dislikes Metallica?

[nikatapi]

I'm not anti-metal. I just can't stand the type of metal Metallica do.

That's like saying you like The Fast and the Furious, but can't stand the bit with the cars.
I don't accept someone is a metal fan unless they respect the Metallica's music. It's like the most basic requirement to pass the metal test.

Not sure if serious. I didn't know there is a "metal test" to be passed. It's all a matter of taste you know...

[wasteland]

I don't accept someone is a metal fan unless they respect the Metallica's music. It's like the most basic requirement to pass the metal test.

Do you accept respecting their role and influence but not liking their music nor thinking they are a good band? Not that I would necessarily fall into said category.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm not anti-metal. I just can't stand the type of metal Metallica do.

That's like saying you like The Fast and the Furious, but can't stand the bit with the cars.
I don't accept someone is a metal fan unless they respect the Metallica's music. It's like the most basic requirement to pass the metal test.

Not even close.

What if someone loves Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, but dislikes Metallica?

Haha, exactly! Metallica are not that important to metal. They are just the most famous metal band, as well as one that is very important to a particular subgenre of metal which I don't like at all.

[BlobVanDam]

What if someone loves Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, but dislikes Metallica?

Haha, exactly! Metallica are not that important to metal. They are just the most famous metal band, as well as one that is very important to a particular subgenre of metal which I don't like at all.

No offense, but this is the most ignorant musical opinion in this entire thread so far, regardless of whether you like Metallica or not, especially considering the obvious influence on DT's music, including a lot of their highly regarded stuff. And I hate thrash as a subgenre as much as anybody else here.

[me7]

What if someone loves Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, but dislikes Metallica?

Haha, exactly! Metallica are not that important to metal. They are just the most famous metal band, as well as one that is very important to a particular subgenre of metal which I don't like at all.

Actually, I agree that Metallica are very important to metal, chronologically the most important band after Judas Priest IMO. I just wanted to point out a flaw in the proposed "metal test".
Metllica were not just some thrash metal band. The highly influenced all of metal that came after them, including progressive metal and DT.

[Perpetual Change]

What if someone loves Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, but dislikes Metallica?

Haha, exactly! Metallica are not that important to metal. They are just the most famous metal band, as well as one that is very important to a particular subgenre of metal which I don't like at all.

No offense, but this is the most ignorant musical opinion in this entire thread so far, regardless of whether you like Metallica or not, especially considering the obvious influence on DT's music, including a lot of their highly regarded stuff. And I hate thrash as a subgenre as much as anybody else here.

No offense taken. I find your idea that everyone who likes metal should respect Metallica to be equally ignorant.

Sorry, but I don't like Metallica. I don't like their music, or the influence they had on metal. I don't like the DT songs which are obviously influenced by them.

[Mosh]

EDIT: I don't mean to downplay the influence that Iron Maiden, Rush, King Crimson, Queen and possibly a lot of other bands had on DT. I just want remark how Metallica is sometimes dismissed by prog lovers and how people complain about DT becoming metal in recent years.

It's not that they became metal in recent years, but the metal has cancelled out the prog in a lot of situations, and even vice versa. Think about Train Of Thought, there's very little prog in that. The way they present it is just different now. I think the Yes meets Metallica mentality is all over the first three albums, but I honestly don't really hear it very much after that.

[Perpetual Change]

What if someone loves Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, but dislikes Metallica?

Haha, exactly! Metallica are not that important to metal. They are just the most famous metal band, as well as one that is very important to a particular subgenre of metal which I don't like at all.

Actually, I agree that Metallica are very important to metal, chronologically the most important band after Judas Priest IMO. I just wanted to point out a flaw in the proposed "metal test".
Metllica were not just some thrash metal band. The highly influenced all of metal that came after them, including progressive metal and DT.

By "not that important" I'm responding to Blobs notion that Metallica are as important to metal as cars are to Fast and Furious. I'm not saying they aren't important at all, but obviously Blob is exaggerating by acting like they deserved every metal fans respect. And tbh I really don't care much for the type of metal that came after Metallica. I just don't.

[me7]

So you don't care about prog metal? How Metallica's concept albums with time signature changes and lengthy multi-section songs pioneered (in metal) many of the things DT are known and praised for?

[WildeSilas]

By "not that important" I'm responding to Blobs notion that Metallica are as important to metal as cars are to Fast and Furious. I'm not saying they aren't important at all, but obviously Blob is exaggerating by acting like they deserved every metal fans respect. And tbh I really don't care much for the type of metal that came after Metallica. I just don't.

I don't know how to talk to you.

[DebraKadabra]

BCASL's problems had little to do with the fact it was metal imo. A lot of its problem was bloat. The album of epics.

I can agree with that to a point - I happen to think that the bloat WAS its problem, not that it was either "too metal" or "too long/prog".  TSF could stand a MAJOR rework, TBOT should've stayed between MP and his dad, and TCOT is WAY overrated (I do admit that I really like Jordan's nod to Frank Zappa in the intro, though).  ANTR goes on for about a minute or two too long, and while I don't have a problem with it (since I'm about the only one here who still likes the song, apparently) the Bebot solo really sounds out of place in AROP.  Wither is about the best song on the album.

As always... your mileage may vary and the above opinions are SOLELY mine.

[Perpetual Change]

So you don't care about prog metal? How Metallica's concept albums with time signature changes and lengthy multi-section songs pioneered (in metal) many of the things DT are known and praised for?

Nope, don't care.

Aside from DT,  I really don't care for much prog metal anyway.

And any way,  it's the prog and melodic metal influenced stuff I like best. Stuff like Train of Thought or the heavier songs on the more recent albums are OK, but they don't do a whole lot for me.

BTW, you can say all you want about DT owing a ton to Metallica, and you wouldn't be completely wrong, but really, they are outside the bands that DT have claimed as the largest influences. Awhile back, either Mike or John said in an interview that there were only three bands that DT were still willing to open for, now that they were a band that could support themselves with their own fanbase. Those bands were Rush, Iron Maiden, and (I believe) Yes. Those three bands and their styles are really the biggest to the DT formula. That formula BTW was already in the works when Metallica were writing MoP and AJFA, so I don't see how DT owe them that much really. Initially, influences such as the bands I already mentioned and more pioneering prog metal acts like Fates Warning and Queensryche were far more important to DT than Metallica were.

Honestly, the idea that Metallica pioneered prog metal is kinda ridiculous, the more I think about it. Metallica were the ones *influenced* somewhat by prog metal, not the other way around, and to give them some sort of credit for pioneering it is really bizarre and incorrect.

[Sycsa]

BCASL's problems had little to do with the fact it was metal imo. A lot of its problem was bloat. The album of epics.

I can agree with that to a point - I happen to think that the bloat WAS its problem, not that it was either "too metal" or "too long/prog".  TSF could stand a MAJOR rework, TBOT should've stayed between MP and his dad, and TCOT is WAY overrated (I do admit that I really like Jordan's nod to Frank Zappa in the intro, though).  ANTR goes on for about a minute or two too long, and while I don't have a problem with it (since I'm about the only one here who still likes the song, apparently) the Bebot solo really sounds out of place in AROP.  Wither is about the best song on the album.

As always... your mileage may vary and the above opinions are SOLELY mine.

I love every minute of it, including the thunder sample, the blast beat and "Day after day...".

[DebraKadabra]

That bolded part was actually referring to AROP, not ANTR.  Sorry for the confusion, folks.

[Lucien]

Crap, I'm stuck in a black hole

https://yourmajesty.ytmnd.com/

[dparrott]

I don't call Load-St. Anger "metal".   To me, that was a deviation, Death Magnetic was getting back to themselves.

And I think Zeppelin and Sabbath were heavy for it's time, but not metal like Metallica and later bands did. 

[Sycsa]

That bolded part was actually referring to AROP, not ANTR.  Sorry for the confusion, folks.

Oh, it's totally my bad, started replying after reading until the bolded part. Don't particularly care for AROP, but I love every JP solo which features wah-wah and tremolo hitting (or whatever that technique is called).

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I really like A Rite Of Passage... though I admit the Bebot is kind of annoying.

[GasparXR]

I don't much care for AROP, it's ok, probably a little better than YNM and BMS but I actually like the Bebot solo.

[YtseCullen]

So James' new album is done, and now we await a release date

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

 

[Lucien]

Now that that album is done, let's finish THIS album.

[Perpetual Change]

It'll sound great with Jens Borgen at the helm. Time to get him over to DT!

[TL]

Also, from the end of that post, we now know that JLB's new album is 100% Ska music.

[TheGreatPretender]

Also, from the end of that post, we now know that JLB's new album is 100% Ska music.

I really hope not.

[?]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sk%C3%A5l

[TheGreatPretender]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sk%C3%A5l

Dammit, my eyes really did ignore that 'l' at the end. I was looking for the translation but couldn't find anything.

[wasteland]

Mine too! Wow, I was 100% the word was just ska, even when reading the wikipage!