Kevin Moore posted a Dream Theater cover (not by him) video on Facebook

[Rattlehead]

I don't think anything is "wrong" with Blob for expressing his opinion, which I actually agree with. He gave credit where it was due so it's not like he was disrespecting these kids.

[BlobVanDam]

And don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing their performances at all. If you're a kid, and you can string together a song at all, I'm already impressed. And they all did a good job on their instruments.
But it seems it done on a relatively decent budget (or someone had a lot of resources to make it happen), as evidenced by the video and audio quality, and I get the feeling there is a lot of studio magic involved in making it sound what it is, such as the obvious pitch correction, and who knows what other tinkering went on.

The whole thing feels very dishonest and heartless to me. If this was a group of kids who were friends getting together to jam on a DT song they clearly love, I'd dig it. But it feels like some parent pulled a bunch of kids from a music class and decided they were going to make them record a song they didn't care for. The teenage boys seemed more into it, especially the drummer, but the girls not at all. The singer really didn't know the melodies or lyrics well enough to convince me she had ever heard this song before.

[SeRoX]

I don't know what's strange or worth starting thread about this. I thought this cover is pretty well known. If I'm not wrong someone here mentioned about this cover and I saw it months ago.

It's perfectly natural that Kevin Moore posted this in his facebook account. This is DT's song which he was hugely involved. Great job by the way if you consider their age. Kinda agree with Blob though. They are not into the music they played in the video. And I don't know what's so special girl's voice. Powerful? Definitely not even close.

[ZirconBlue]

And don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing their performances at all. If you're a kid, and you can string together a song at all, I'm already impressed. And they all did a good job on their instruments.
But it seems it done on a relatively decent budget (or someone had a lot of resources to make it happen), as evidenced by the video and audio quality, and I get the feeling there is a lot of studio magic involved in making it sound what it is, such as the obvious pitch correction, and who knows what other tinkering went on.

The whole thing feels very dishonest and heartless to me. If this was a group of kids who were friends getting together to jam on a DT song they clearly love, I'd dig it. But it feels like some parent pulled a bunch of kids from a music class and decided they were going to make them record a song they didn't care for. The teenage boys seemed more into it, especially the drummer, but the girls not at all. The singer really didn't know the melodies or lyrics well enough to convince me she had ever heard this song before.

I think you're reading things into it with a very cynical view.  The singer gets more into it as the video goes on, but, of course, you didn't even watch that much of it, since you had already made up your mind.  To me, they didn't look any less "into it" than any other footage I've seen of band members recording their individual parts in the studio.  Was Jordan Rudess playing the keyboard with a Starbuck's cup in one hand "into it"?  It wasn't a performance it was recording of studio sessions. The guitars, bass, and drums were all  playing together, so it's more of a band performance vibe, but the others were on their own in a studio.[size=78%]  [/size]

[KevShmev]

The singer didn't know the words?  Uh, what?  She sang them all, except for a few slight tweaks (like changing "The whole word keeps..." to "This world keeps..."), which is not unusual when it comes to covers. 

Given the ages of the kids, this was very impressive.

[Naikon]

Come on, the girls is 11 years old. I don't expect her to know how to behave infront of the camera. She sings fantastic and I get no intention of that she's in pain...

[BlobVanDam]

And don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing their performances at all. If you're a kid, and you can string together a song at all, I'm already impressed. And they all did a good job on their instruments.
But it seems it done on a relatively decent budget (or someone had a lot of resources to make it happen), as evidenced by the video and audio quality, and I get the feeling there is a lot of studio magic involved in making it sound what it is, such as the obvious pitch correction, and who knows what other tinkering went on.

The whole thing feels very dishonest and heartless to me. If this was a group of kids who were friends getting together to jam on a DT song they clearly love, I'd dig it. But it feels like some parent pulled a bunch of kids from a music class and decided they were going to make them record a song they didn't care for. The teenage boys seemed more into it, especially the drummer, but the girls not at all. The singer really didn't know the melodies or lyrics well enough to convince me she had ever heard this song before.

I think you're reading things into it with a very cynical view.  The singer gets more into it as the video goes on, but, of course, you didn't even watch that much of it, since you had already made up your mind.  To me, they didn't look any less "into it" than any other footage I've seen of band members recording their individual parts in the studio.  Was Jordan Rudess playing the keyboard with a Starbuck's cup in one hand "into it"?  It wasn't a performance it was recording of studio sessions. The guitars, bass, and drums were all  playing together, so it's more of a band performance vibe, but the others were on their own in a studio.[size=78%]  [/size]

You questioned something being wrong with me in your last post, and are now questioning my judgement watching the video and assuming I didn't give it a fair chance. You're the one being cynical, and I'm starting to find it offensive and antagonistic. All I've done is have a differing opinion to you, and I've expressed myself very reasonably, and explained myself quite well to the point where it's not fair to just dismiss me so rudely.

I love seeing videos of kids playing good music, and appreciating less popular/mainstream music, and was ready to enjoy it. But I really couldn't watch it past the first chorus, because it was too insincere and forced to me. It was mostly the singer, and the piano/hammond player. I don't feel like they were enjoying themselves, or even knew or liked the music, so I gained no enjoyment from seeing them playing a song just because I happen to like the song. They played very well, but I felt too bad for them watching it.

[Madman Shepherd]

The whole thing feels very dishonest and heartless to me. If this was a group of kids who were friends getting together to jam on a DT song they clearly love, I'd dig it. But it feels like some parent pulled a bunch of kids from a music class and decided they were going to make them record a song they didn't care for.

I don't see what is wrong with either scenario.  As a kid I played tons of music I didn't care for while in the school concert band.  Even though I no longer play trombone and I rarely pick up my bass or guitar (all of which I was not that good at to begin with) it gave me a huge appreciation for almost every type of music from classical to metal. 

In fact, I remember in pep band we would even play Smoke on the Water which I only vaguely knew.  Now I love Deep Purple and own their entire catalog. 

[Adami]

Jeez, even in a thread where I didn't say anything negative, I'm the one who gets insulted.


Yea, I don't think I'll be posting in the DT side of the forum anymore. Apparently any opinion that isn't positive isn't wanted here.


Best of luck blob.

[Sycsa]

I stopped after the first chorus. It was obvious that a lot of the kids had no real interest or knowledge of the music at all. It was very joyless. That singer didn't even know the words. I think this was a case of someone's parents having too much money.
Completely overproduced with multi-camera video (which wasn't even from the sake take as the recording), heavy pitch correction and reverb on that kid's vocals, plus the pro mix and studio etc. And the arrangement with the piano and bongos and hammond was mish mashy and didn't fit the song.
The kids played well for their age though.


I think I'm turning into Adami.

While I don't necessarily agree with all this(especially the last part, I loved the arrangement and I bet it was the very thing that impressed Kev the most), it was certainly an interesting point of view to think about. It stirred up the topic nicely, although it's never fun when it gets personal.

[BlobVanDam]

Jeez, even in a thread where I didn't say anything negative, I'm the one who gets insulted.

I didn't mean my comment as an insult, so I apologize. It was an observation that you're often one to make a critical comment where most people are positive, and I actually often admire you for being that person willing to go there. I don't see that as a negative or insulting characteristic.

[PROGdrummer]

Jeez, even in a thread where I didn't say anything negative, I'm the one who gets insulted.


Yea, I don't think I'll be posting in the DT side of the forum anymore. Apparently any opinion that isn't positive isn't wanted here.


Best of luck blob.

.....ouch

[DeanTheater]

The singer didn't know the words?  Uh, what?  She sang them all, except for a few slight tweaks (like changing "The whole word keeps..." to "This world keeps..."), which is not unusual when it comes to covers. 

Given the ages of the kids, this was very impressive.

pretty much all of this.  I agree.  It was also a studio setting  and the kids were focused on playing difficult music.  I think a dynamic stage performance isnt what these kids were trying to portray.   Have you ever watched DT perform in studio....somewhat soulless as well. Like most bands focused on hitting marks and mixing and editing etc....

I enjoyed it.   

[WildeSilas]

Blob - why do you think they weren't "into it?" All I see is that you "get the feeling" or it "seems like" they're not. They're playing/singing a really complicated song, with a lot of people involved and cameras rolling. They're in a studio - you can't be jumping around and performing or you get a shitty recording with a bunch of noise in the background. I'd give it to you if this were a live performance, but this is seems normal to me for the setting.

[BlobVanDam]

Blob - why do you think they weren't "into it?" All I see is that you "get the feeling" or it "seems like" they're not. They're playing/singing a really complicated song, with a lot of people involved and cameras rolling. They're in a studio - you can't be jumping around and performing or you get a shitty recording with a bunch of noise in the background. I'd give it to you if this were a live performance, but this is seems normal to me for the setting.

I'm not talking about jumping around like a live show. If you look at the boys in the "band" playing together, they're getting into it, and bopping their heads, and smiling, and you can see they're actually enjoying it. If the video was just the guys, I'd be happy with the video, because I think they're going to be fans.
You don't need to be running around to be visibly enjoying yourself. It's not like I've never seen what people look like while recording in a studio.

Now look at little bongo kid. He's not moving, he's not smiling, he's just sitting there blank faced and motionless. There is no indication that he is enjoying this. And the keyboard girls aren't smiling, and could be practicing scales for all you can see.
And then there's the singer not knowing the words and melodies. And she looks painfully uncomfortable in front of a camera. Her eyes honestly look like she's about to burst into tears to me. I just tried to watch it again, and I just can't.

But that's just my opinion. I don't know why people are getting their pantaloons in a twist over this. I've explained myself more than excessively on this, and if you really can't appreciate a differing opinion after all of that, then what else can you do?

[WildeSilas]

I think too you have to consider that the older the kid, the more comfortable they are on camera - the acoustic guitar player, singer, and bongo player are considerably younger. Even if they were into it, they would likely not express themselves as openly and they would be more focused on getting it right.

I think you're right in one sense though - the younger kids, and the two girls playing the keyboards are less likely to be "into" DT than the teen age boys. But consider a scenario where the guys in the band want to cover the song, but none of them play keys, or they didn't want to overdub. It's reasonable in that case to ask some friends who play these other instruments to help out with just the one song. IMO, even that is impressive for kids that age. It might explain why the guitar players/drummer was into it more than the key players or the younger kids. I know that even now I have to use "hired gun" cello players, female vocalists, and other such musicians from time to time because it's not practical to have a full time person to do that. It's not their taste, but they can play/sing the part. But they're definitely not as "into it" as the rest of the group.

[BlobVanDam]

Those are all good points, unfortunately the visual of them still had a negative impact on my overall perception of it, even if that judgement is incorrect. I don't have much else to judge it on.

And aside from that, as I said earlier I was also put off by how overproduced it was for a group of kids. It wasn't something spontaneous and real like a kid sitting down in front of their webcam and recording a performance. The obvious pitch correction on the girl's vocals instantly made me question how much editing and outside involvement there was to get it to sound like it does.

These things for me just took the bite out of what should have been a very cool performance of a group of kids. Again, this is not a knock on the kids themselves. They were all talented kids, and I really hope to see more DT related performances from them that make me eat my words.

[KevShmev]

And then there's the singer not knowing the words and melodies. 

Why do you keep saying this, when it isn't true? 

I think too you have to consider that the older the kid, the more comfortable they are on camera - the acoustic guitar player, singer, and bongo player are considerably younger. Even if they were into it, they would likely not express themselves as openly and they would be more focused on getting it right.

I think you're right in one sense though - the younger kids, and the two girls playing the keyboards are less likely to be "into" DT than the teen age boys. But consider a scenario where the guys in the band want to cover the song, but none of them play keys, or they didn't want to overdub. It's reasonable in that case to ask some friends who play these other instruments to help out with just the one song. IMO, even that is impressive for kids that age. It might explain why the guitar players/drummer was into it more than the key players or the younger kids. I know that even now I have to use "hired gun" cello players, female vocalists, and other such musicians from time to time because it's not practical to have a full time person to do that. It's not their taste, but they can play/sing the part. But they're definitely not as "into it" as the rest of the group.

This is a great point. 

[BlobVanDam]

And then there's the singer not knowing the words and melodies. 

Why do you keep saying this, when it isn't true? 

Because it is true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6h2h4zIhwuM#t=194s

What is the lyric supposed to be? And now what do you hear her singing? (no really, I cannot for the life of me figure out what she is singing there)

[KevShmev]

Oh, so changing, or even goofing up, a word or two in a song with hundreds of them means she didn't know the words?  Wow, you'd make a great parent.  "Nice job on that report, Johnny, but it wasn't absolutely perfect, so you have to go to bed without any supper tonight!"

[BlobVanDam]

She got an entire line completely wrong to the point of making random sounds. That counts as not knowing the lyrics. Hell, even if I don't know the proper lyrics to a song, I'd be able to mumble something phonetically similar if I actually knew the song. That plus the couple of parts she sang the melodies wrong (sorry, "changed"), make me believe she isn't a DT fan.

Whatever.

[Implode]

Also makes you wonder why they wouldn't take the time to fix that in something that's this produced.

[RedKlouD72]

Kidz Bop Goes Prog!

*shutters*


good for these kids though. they've got skill

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I think Blob certainly has the right not to like this, and I think he's laid out some tangible reasons for his distaste--reasons that shouldn't be entirely overlooked. However, I can't say I feel as repulsed by it. The singer never appeared to be "about to burst into tears" to my eyes. And yeah, she screwed up some of the words, but hell, singers screw up their own words sometimes. It happens. Why they didn't touch it up, who knows--that's probably the better question.

And as far as the "not being into it"--as many have said, that's hardly surprising for the age group. I can definitively state that 95% of songs I played when I played the piano, including the vast majority of songs I played for audiences, were not my cup of tea. I would hope, however, that the audiences did not recoil in horror upon hearing me play them due to some vague notion of me not being "into it." If that was a requirement for youth music to be appreciated, there'd be a LOT more cringing at it, IMO. Regardless if they're into it or not, they took the time to learn the music well enough for it to be performed at this high a level, and that deserves more admiration than repulsion, I think.

[Western Ninja]

I think everyone needs to put the pitchforks and torches away, and accept people have opposing views.

[Rattlehead]

I think everyone needs to put the pitchforks and torches away, and accept people have opposing views.

I completely agree but unfortunately for humans that's more difficult than asking for them to pull their own teeth out. Especially because it's a forum so people can attack others' opinions while safely hiding behind their computer screen. 

[BlobVanDam]

I apologize if I appear to come across as too harsh on this video. It was no one individual thing that put me off, and I don't want people thinking I'm hating on the video just because an 11 year old girl got a line wrong, or because a piano player isn't jumping around etc. It was a combination of many little things I observed that formed my opinion, that dampened my enjoyment of what is a great performance by a bunch of kids. I don't want anyone to think I'm being overly critical of them, because that was never really my issue with the video.

I'm not trying to speak in absolutes and say that anyone else should feel the same as I do at all, and I haven't put anyone down for disagreeing with me. I'm just giving my own subjective opinion based on a variety of factors, and I hope people understand where I'm coming from and don't think I'm just nitpicking trivial mistakes here.

[FsF]

I'm just relieved the bassist didn't play the 2nd verse like Myung. Phew!

[Orbert]

When the keyboards came in, specifically the piano, I was thinking it would be an interesting cover where they take it in a different direction.  But the guitars, bass and drums seemed to be sticking pretty much to the original arrangement, so it was weird.  Then the organ came in and I realized that they didn't have a synth and had to cover the keyboard parts with piano and organ.  What they ended up doing was kinda cool.

Once the vocals came in, ouch.  I'll give her credit for being as good as she is at 11 years old, but it was tough to listen to.  I jumped ahead a few times to see what else they did, and they were sticking to the original arrangment, with the exception of the keyboards, so it was still kinda weird.  Again, they were making do with what they had, but it seemed like they could've covered the original lines better.

Overall, not bad I guess.  And for their age, pretty damned good, I'll give them that.  But I didn't listen to the whole thing, as the vocals were just cringeworthy to me.

[Sycsa]

When the keyboards came in, specifically the piano, I was thinking it would be an interesting cover where they take it in a different direction.  But the guitars, bass and drums seemed to be sticking pretty much to the original arrangement, so it was weird.  Then the organ came in and I realized that they didn't have a synth and had to cover the keyboard parts with piano and organ.  What they ended up doing was kinda cool.

Kinda what I thought as well, except for the last part. Having an acoustic grand piano and $10k Hammond organ, I really doubt finding a relatively cheap synth would have been a problem. 

[Orbert]

True, but that doesn't mean that what they did wasn't kinda cool.  The mixing of piano and organ filled the keyboard part as it should and even provided a little something different.  This is a separate issue from the fact that they could've just gotten a synth anyway.

[Sycsa]

True, but that doesn't mean that what they did wasn't kinda cool.

Not at all. If it weren't for the piano and organ I wouldn't even care about this cover, but the mere sight of a Hammond is usually enough for me to like something.

[Western Ninja]

I'm just relieved the bassist didn't play the 2nd verse like Myung. Phew!

It would have worried me if he did, that verse is insane

[CrimsonSunrise]

Back when I was 14-16 I played both drums and Sax in school jazz bands.  We went to many jazz festival/contests against other schools, so I've heard a lot of young kids play.  These kids are simply amazing....period.