Do DT need a chorus for every song?

[darkshade]

I'm not saying get rid of them, but sometimes it feels like the band HAS to put them in a song, and repeat them 3 times. ADTOE saw improvement with this, like in Breaking All Illusions where it was only repeated twice, with a different beat each time, Outcry where it was in a different key each time, and a couple other moments on the album. On the other hand, Lost not Forgotten, while I think it's a great song and I love that they really mixed it up in that song, they still HAD to return to the chorus, even if it was a sick chorus. Or OTBOA, where it seemed obligatory to return to the chorus, even though it's kind of an energy killer.

Thing is, they don't HAVE to return to the chorus, or even have one at all if it's not necessary. Some songs energies on older albums were thrown off by the band stopping what they were doing to allow the chorus to happen (TDEN). Again, I'm glad they improved in this area on ADTOE, but the need for a chorus, whether they do interesting things with it or not, still seems necessary to have in the band's writing.

It's funny, as I'm typing this, King Crimson's "Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With" is playing on my computer, where Belew is singing "I think it's time for the chorus, we're gonna have to write a chorus, I guess we'll repeat the chorus". I hate to say it, but sometimes I feel like DT is thinking that during writing sessions.

[Mladen]

As long as the chorus is good, I don't mind. Dream Theater has always had choruses, I don't see it as something that became a part of their newer sound.

[BlobVanDam]

WTF. There's nothing wrong with choruses.

[JayOctavarium]

I just don't like it when they repeat the chorus 100x at the very end of the song.


TEARS FALL FROM THE SHAMELESS

[robwebster]

Some songs energies on older albums were thrown off by the band stopping what they were doing to allow the chorus to happen (TDEN).

Whuh?

I get what you mean inasmuch it'd be nice to see a few more unorthodox structures - stuff like Take a Bow or Knights of Cydonia, by Muse - but they're hardly sticklers for convention. Nothing's suffering for it. I've literally never listened to a Dream Theater song and thought "this'd be better without that pesky chorus there" - big, rousing anthems are among their strengths. Of course they play up to it!

I just don't like it when they repeat the chorus 100x at the very end of the song.


TEARS FALL FROM THE SHAMELESS

They repeat that exactly 1.5x at the end of the song, but fair enough.

[Mosh]

I love the chorus to OTBOA, I think it's just fine. Lost Not Forgotten on the other hand, has one of my least favorite choruses on the entire album, it's the song's weakest point in my opinion. I wish it wasn't repeated as often. I definitely agree with what you mean though, there are many instances where they seem to put a chorus there just for the sake of having one. It works for some songs, doesn't work for others.

[Onno]

WTF. There's nothing wrong with choruses.

[Adami]

The main problem with DT choruses are that they tend to drop all of the energy that the song had already built up. For some reason DT have  a tendency to go half time in most of their choruses.

[Ruba]

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

[JayOctavarium]

They repeat that exactly 1.5x at the end of the song, but fair enough.

It still seems dragged out... especially live

[robwebster]

Seriously?! The repetition with the chuggy guitar is basically the best bit of the song! Such an adrenaline surge! Absolutely fair cop, your own opinion, and what works for some people won't for others - but I can't get my head around that.

Different strokes!

[BlobVanDam]

Seriously?! The repetition with the chuggy guitar is basically the best bit of the song! Such an adrenaline surge! Absolutely fair cop, your own opinion, and what works for some people won't for others - but I can't get my head around that.

Different strokes!

You and me are on the same wavelength, pal. Now let's ditch this joint and go listen to some choruses!

[JayOctavarium]

Let's agree to disagree


(I may or may not shank you tonight in a back alley for having a slightly different opinion than me)

[Zook]

DT have choruses?

[Mladen]

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

This song has an awesome chorus. 

[Marion Crane]

There are plenty of DT songs without choruses

[Sketchy]

I don't mind either way, but I do tend to like the unorthadoxly structured ones, but some do have brilliant choruses.

[Connoc]

Yeah I do like when they change up the chorus in some way, so it doesn't feel like a copy-paste in the edit room. Different drumbeat, maybe a different guitar texture, more harmonies, just something that makes it a bit different

Example: Probably one of my favorite outro/choruses is Raise the Knife and having that little 2/4 gap drum fill along with Myung's kick-assier bass line makes it rock that much harder. I love it.

[Zook]

Also

If the chorus fits the song, then yes. If it sounds forced, then no.

But DT writes good choruses. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and I Walk Beside You have pretty bad ones, but overally they've done good job.

lolno

[Sketchy]

I love the one in Trial Of Tears where it gets extended and then halfreprised at the end. Also what zook said.

[darkshade]

Listen. I wasn't talking about the quality of the choruses, they're usually great, nor do I have a problem with choruses in general. And I said that DT had improved greatly on ADTOE in that department, it just feels like they have to go back to the chorus on each song, and they do, on every song on ADTOE. the only exceptions since ToT have been Stream of Consciousness which is an instrumental anyway, Octavarium's title track, The Count of Tuscany, though it had a chorus, repeated once, and to an extent, In The Presence of Enemies. 3 out of 4 of those were the big epics, which usually have more wide and varied structures anyway.

[54_diplomats]

The choruses are fine and Bridges in the Sky's chorus is one of the best I've heard. Breaking all Illusions chorus wasn't anything new though, it was pretty much the same format as Learning to Live's chorus (BAI is pretty similar to LtL in general). I also think TDEN's chorus is the best part of the song so I can't really agree with most of what you said, I like most of DT's choruses.

[namgalsipsclar]

Hey choruses are cool! Thinking about it, theres not too many DT songs without one. I kinda agree that some choruses do pull the energy down a bit, but quite often its just that the best parts of the song lie outside the chorus, like Scarred or Lines in the Sand (IMO)

[robwebster]

Listen. I wasn't talking about the quality of the choruses, they're usually great, nor do I have a problem with choruses in general. And I said that DT had improved greatly on ADTOE in that department, it just feels like they have to go back to the chorus on each song, and they do, on every song on ADTOE. the only exceptions since ToT have been Stream of Consciousness which is an instrumental anyway, Octavarium's title track, The Count of Tuscany, though it had a chorus, repeated once, and to an extent, In The Presence of Enemies. 3 out of 4 of those were the big epics, which usually have more wide and varied structures anyway.

The Shattered Fortress and the Best of Times have multiple choruses, or choruses that don't get reprised, in exactly the same way as The Count of Tuscany and Octavarium. So that's 3/6 on that album alone. Versus possibly 1/9 on A Dramatic Turn of Events, depending on whether you consider Far from Heaven to have a chorus.

[senecadawg2]

Good choruses can elevate an okay song to a great song. I'd rather DT wrote decent choruses than no choruses.

[jsem]

Trial of Tears chorus is easily one of, if not, the best choruses ever imo.

[theseoafs]

I don't see why the fact that DT's music has choruses is an issue at all.  DT is good at writing choruses.  I don't know why it would necessarily be better for them to go against that impulse.  You might as well start a thread asking "Do DT need a guitar for every song?" -- the answer is no, of course, but breaking from convention doesn't automatically make music better.

[senecadawg2]

Trial of Tears chorus is easily one of, if not the best choruses ever imo.

First one that came to mind for me as well. Really beautiful

[DebraKadabra]

WTF. There's nothing wrong with choruses.

Really.

[rumborak]

Choruses are DT's strong suit, they would be stupid to leave them out.

[Ħ]

The two repeated chorus at the end of a song has gotten kind of old. But aside from that, the choruses themselves are very strong.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

A good portion of all the music in the world needs hooks. Hooks are usually found in choruses.


This applies to DT, of course.

[wolfking]

Choruses are essential IMO, but not needed every single song, depends what the song needs.

[Ħ]

Choruses are essential IMO, but not needed every single song, depends what the song needs.

No way dude, don't you know that choruses are way too mainstream and therefore of the devil

[?]

DT usually write very catchy choruses, I wouldn't mind if every song on the next album featured a chorus. However, they aren't a necessity and don't have to be repeated over and over again.