Mangini's performance on DT12.... Speed or Technicality?

[PROGdrummer]

Lately I've been thinking about how Mangini will play on the next Dream Theater album. Honestly, I hope he doesn't pull any punches with his drum parts, I hope he gives it everything hes got in both his speed and technical prowess.

However, what if Mangini could only use ONE of these characteristics on DT's 12th studio album?
Would you rather him play  extremely fast beats, patterns and rythms that prove why he was able to set world records?
Or... would you rather him use his genius side to create ridiculously complex patterns that make you say "I have absolutely no idea how he's playing this, but its sooo eargasmic"?

Of course, I hope the Mangenius uses BOTH of these abilities to their full potential on DT12, but if you could choose only one side of Mangini's style, what would it be? Speed or Technicality?

[Zydar]

Definitely technicality. World records and extreme speed honestly doesn't interest me.

[BlobVanDam]

I choose that he plays what serves the song, which could very well be neither.

However, if I had to choose, I guess technicality.

[PROGdrummer]

I choose that he plays what serves the song, which could very well be neither.

However, if I had to choose, I guess technicality.

well yes of course, in a softer passage or a ballad neither of these skills would be neccesary.
but for the standard 10-15 minute Dream Theater tune, Mangini should really put the pedal to the metal in some way.

[hefdaddy42]

What's the point of speed in the context of a DT song?

[Nekov]

I think all of them need to slow a bit from what they did in ADTOE. There are some passages in the album where they all just play too fast and technical.

[Lynxo]

What's the point of speed in the context of a DT song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfbdJL4KTLY

Something like this? I really don't think it's world record speed or anything, but it's a speedy thing put in a context of a song to make it sound different.

I'm sure there are other ways to put mr Mangini's ridiculous speed to good use.

[robwebster]

I'd like the drums on the next album to be hard and fast. Like Brannigan's law.

I can't think of many songs where they've properly done the speedy drumming thing - Dream Theater tend to hover around the mid-tempo, so it'd be cool to hear some properly blistering drums... but on balance, if it were one or the other? Technicality. Because that can cover all kinds of styles. Groovy-technical like in the Great Debate, heavy-technical like The Dark Eternal Night, melodic-technical like Metropolis - it's a much wider playing field.

[Zydar]

What's the point of speed in the context of a DT song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfbdJL4KTLY

Holy smokes

[senecadawg2]

Technicality

[ReaPsTA]

If only one, then technicality.  I want to hear things I've never heard before.  Mangini can take me there.

[chrisbDTM]

mangini is always technical. if you listen closely to ADTOE you'll hear that. so there's no question that'll be on the next. speed is nice in spots too

[Sycsa]

I hope we'll get a short drum solo or intro.

[ronrule]

No more merely support drumming or unison drumming -- I want interesting, unique drum parts that sound great on their own and push the boundaries of speed, technicality and composition.

[Adami]

It will definitely be insanely technical.


But it doesn't matter. If it sounds good it sounds good, if it sounds bad it sounds bad. I just hope MM can see past being a drummer and try to look at this as a musician.

[Unlegit]

Technicality, no question.

[GasparXR]

It will definitely be insanely technical.


But it doesn't matter. If it sounds good it sounds good, if it sounds bad it sounds bad. I just hope MM can see past being a drummer and try to look at this as a musician.

This.

[Kotowboy]

Definitely technicality. World records and extreme speed honestly doesn't interest me.

Even when I was 15 and was just starting out learning drums - my heroes were always the drummers with the best feel and taste. I hated local drummers who thought that X drummer was the best just because he was FAST. And everyone worshipped Travis Barker who is basically all speed and not much else.

I love Mangini's technical side and it's ridiculous. But his incredible speed does not impress me in the slightest. Unless it's that one thing he does where he alternates between Octobans and toms. That is mind-blowing.

But I have way more respect for dummers that can play a fat groove and really sit with the song than 240 blast beats or whatever.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Tech, and my Option #3...Tastiness    I want it too be tasty and technical.

[theGonz]

What's the point of speed in the context of a DT song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfbdJL4KTLY

Holy smokes

I can tell just from Labries scream that the video was taken in San Diego lol

[PROGdrummer]

I just hope MM can see past being a drummer and try to look at this as a musician.

No more merely support drumming or unison drumming -- I want interesting, unique drum parts that sound great on their own and push the boundaries of speed, technicality and composition.

Both of these statements pretty much wrap up my thoughts on ADTOE's drumming. And I realize that the drum parts weren't actually composed by Mangini himself and he was basically following the blueprints Petrucci laid down with his drum machine program, but still. What I loved about Portnoy was that he could literally put an incredible beat or rhythm or pattern into any song and make it sound 10x more awesome. For example, These Walls is an incredibly mellow song for most of it, but still listen to the crazy shit Portnoy came up with for about  1:03-1:48. I realize its not really THAT insane or technical, but I honestly find that bit alone more enjoyable than most of the beats on ADTOE, and even though the rest of the band isnt doing much of anything and are just mellowing out, Portnoy manages to fill all the gaps with an incredibly speedy and groovy beat. And in Constant Motion, listen to Portnoy from 4:03-5:00. This literally made my jaw drop the first time I heard it. Its insane and fast and fun.

That's why Portnoy will always be my drumming hero, because his drum parts are just so impressive and groovy, even in simple songs. And even when there was crazy time signatures he was able to lay down a good, original beat, and he wasnt just following Petrucci with his bass drum while his hands do something else.

Honestly, no offense to Mangini, he is a fantastic and genius drummer, but on Dream Theater's 12th album, I want to hear him use his talents to their full potential and push himself to his physical limits, just like Portnoy did with each album.

[E.S.]

I'd like the drums on the next album to be hard and fast. Like Brannigan's law.

Brilliant. 

[Pols Voice]

And I realize that the drum parts weren't actually composed by Mangini himself and he was basically following the blueprints Petrucci laid down with his drum machine program, but still.

This comes up a lot, but I'm pretty sure Mangini added many of his own ideas. I think Petrucci's drum tracks were more bare bones.

[DebraKadabra]

The techie thing

[6sAllTheWay]

Honestly, no offense to Mangini, he is a fantastic and genius drummer, but on Dream Theater's 12th album, I want to hear him use his talents to their full potential and push himself to his physical limits, just like Portnoy did with each album.

I think now that the first album and world tour is done a lot of the pressure on Mangini is over and he will be able to properly step into character for the next album - which will hopefully mean that we'll see him adding more of his own touch and fingerprint on the songs.

Oh and technicality over speed definitely!

[Progmetty]

I posted this in the chat thread but I see nobody posted the link here yet:

Mangini from San Salvador hotel room, what a guy.
Watching him I can easily figure the students lost such a fun but extremely knowledgeable professor, look at how goofy and fun he is about such a fairly technical aspect and yet so clear and detailed.
I love that guy, so good to have him in DT.
And I like his schedule which has "Dream Theater related situations" on it

[Zydar]

Yeah I watched that clip earlier tonight. I don't understand a thing he's talking about though with all the rhythms and meters 

[Progmetty]

I most definitely don't either

[6sAllTheWay]

I posted this in the chat thread but I see nobody posted the link here yet:

Mangini from San Salvador hotel room, what a guy.
Watching him I can easily figure the students lost such a fun but extremely knowledgeable professor, look at how goofy and fun he is about such a fairly technical aspect and yet so clear and detailed.
I love that guy, so good to have him in DT.
And I like his schedule which has "Dream Theater related situations" on it

He is like a Olympic performer - he makes what he does look easy. We sometimes forget all the hours of practice and failure that goes before it! And the moment you stop having fun doing what you do - it is maybe time for something else, that counts for everybody but definitely also in a band like DT 

[Dreamer81]

I just hope MM can see past being a drummer and try to look at this as a musician.

No more merely support drumming or unison drumming -- I want interesting, unique drum parts that sound great on their own and push the boundaries of speed, technicality and composition.

Both of these statements pretty much wrap up my thoughts on ADTOE's drumming. And I realize that the drum parts weren't actually composed by Mangini himself and he was basically following the blueprints Petrucci laid down with his drum machine program, but still. What I loved about Portnoy was that he could literally put an incredible beat or rhythm or pattern into any song and make it sound 10x more awesome. For example, These Walls is an incredibly mellow song for most of it, but still listen to the crazy shit Portnoy came up with for about  1:03-1:48. I realize its not really THAT insane or technical, but I honestly find that bit alone more enjoyable than most of the beats on ADTOE, and even though the rest of the band isnt doing much of anything and are just mellowing out, Portnoy manages to fill all the gaps with an incredibly speedy and groovy beat. And in Constant Motion, listen to Portnoy from 4:03-5:00. This literally made my jaw drop the first time I heard it. Its insane and fast and fun.

That's why Portnoy will always be my drumming hero, because his drum parts are just so impressive and groovy, even in simple songs. And even when there was crazy time signatures he was able to lay down a good, original beat, and he wasnt just following Petrucci with his bass drum while his hands do something else.

Honestly, no offense to Mangini, he is a fantastic and genius drummer, but on Dream Theater's 12th album, I want to hear him use his talents to their full potential and push himself to his physical limits, just like Portnoy did with each album.

MP's limits were reached in SFAM/SDOIT, after these 2 albums all the others are pretty bland and boring (drum-wise, obviously)

[54_diplomats]

^ Both Train of Thought and Octavarium have some excellent drumming imo. It was during SC and Black Clouds that you can tell MP's drumming was getting bland, though there are still some great sections. Constant Motion is one of my least favorite DT songs, but that section PROGdrummer mentioned is awesome. Never Enough is another song I'm not fond of, but I love the drumming.