Does DT Have A Mixing Problem?

[darkshade]

It seems like most DT albums have something mixed too high, or too low. Or the instruments are mixed to sound too thin, or too distorted (like the bass). Why can't they have all instruments evenly mixed? There's always a problem.

WDADU - well, the whole album has a mixing problem.
I&W - drums mixed too loud, guitars lack punch (could be the production values of the times, though).
Awake - keys are a bit too low.
FII - fine, actually...
SFAM - listen closely, and there's weird, small glitches or timing problems here and there. All instruments can be heard though.
SDOIT - sometimes I feel the guitars have too much treble in the EQ, but generally, this album is also fine. They experimented with different pans of the guitars, drums, and keys (disc 1), so everything can pretty much be heard.
ToT - keys mixed too low.
8vm - guitars mixed too low.
SC - bass mixed too low.
BC&SL - drums mixed too high, keys mixed too low, bass is almost non-existent, except for a few moments; but sounds distorted.
ADTOE - drums mixed too low. Most of JLB's vocals are double tracked.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

FII has some fucking awesome mixing.

[Adami]

DT generally sound too thin. However they got punch like most bands can't get.


Now that I think about it, out of all of the hundreds of CDs that I have, almost none of them have great production, there's always quite a few flaws.

[ResultsMayVary]

FII has some fucking awesome mixing.

Agreed.

I also like SFAM and SDOIT's mix quite a bit.

[Adami]

I don't really care for SFAMs mixing, the levels are.....fine I guess. But the album feels tiny as hell.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm glad I know shit about mixing, so only the most obvious problems are visible.

[Adami]

I'm glad I know shit about mixing, so only the most obvious problems are visible.

Surely you mean audible?

[MondayMorningLunatic]

I&W, FII, and SDOIT are immaculate. All the other albums (excluding WDADU) are great but could be improved. And I like SFAM, although I think the rhythm guitar's a little squawky and mid-rangey.

[voncorn]

-

[SystematicThought]

But he didn't mix it. That was only SC. I do agree though, since they've been with him, the albums don't sound as nice 

[Zook]

What if Andy Sneap mixed a DT album?

[Adami]

But he didn't mix it. That was only SC. I do agree though, since they've been with him, the albums don't sound as nice 

According to wiki, Paul Northfield mixed ADTOE.



Edit: And I'm wrong, he engineered it while Andy Wallace mixed it.


So I blame them both (and Petrucci) I say kick all three of them out of the band.

[Index]

I might be banned for this  but I don't really care for the mix on FII, but I love the mix off Awake the drums in particular own.

[Pols Voice]

I love the mixes of FII (the bass is great) and Awake.

[Index]

The bass is actually one of the things I do love about the mix of FII, but I think it's MP snare tone that kind of turns me off.

[SystematicThought]

What does an engineer do anyway? Do they get all the microphones together and work with the sound in studio?

[Adami]

What does an engineer do anyway? Do they get all the microphones together and work with the sound in studio?

They do tons of stuff. One of the problems with ADTOE seems like it wasn't recorded very well even before being mixed. For that Paul Northfield is to blame.

[BlobVanDam]

What does an engineer do anyway? Do they get all the microphones together and work with the sound in studio?

They do tons of stuff. One of the problems with ADTOE seems like it wasn't recorded very well even before being mixed. For that Paul Northfield is to blame.

I hope they stop hiring him. The last three albums all have inconsistencies in sound, ranging from minor to pretty huge. I personally think ADTOE is their most rough sounding album since WDADU. SFAM is pretty raw, but not bad.

Kevin Shirley did DT's best mixes imo. FII and SDOIT are both great, where you hear every instrument nice and clear without it sounding muddled or wonky. IaW is mixed great too, and Awake is fairly good in that regard too, although it lacks punch.

[SystematicThought]

Agreed.

I actually would like to see The Caveman come back

[Adami]

I think the obvious answer is to have Rick Rubin produce the next album.


BRING IT!

[SystematicThought]

 

People praise that guy and I don't get it....Have you heard the production on the new ZZ Top album.... *cringes*

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm glad I know shit about mixing, so only the most obvious problems are visible.

Surely you mean audible?

Someone picked up on that yes, yes I did. Just too much of an airhead to actually type what I mean.

[TheGreatPretender]

Awake - keys are a bit too low.

Are you kidding me? I actually thought the keys were at parts too high. The intro to Erotomania is almost ear piercing.

[Sketchy]

There are a few moments in some DT albums which do bug me slightly, most notably the intro to SDIOT, where, yes, the bass is epic, but then when everything else comes in, there's not enough of a big jump. It just feels like there should be a much louder BOOM.

[nikatapi]

I agree with the opinion that the Kevin Shirley mixed albums are the best sounding ones, and i like the production on Awake very much as well.

ADTOE was an improvement over SC and BC&SL, but i found the drums a bit quiet especially as far as the cymbals are concerned, there are some incredible parts from MM in Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry that are almost inaudible in the album and they sound amazing live.

[Ruba]

Awake - keys are a bit too low.

Are you kidding me? I actually thought the keys were at parts too high. The intro to Erotomania is almost ear piercing.

I think so too.

Keys are mixed well, I think. The only thing that could be better is the snare drum, it's a bit too thin.

FII is awesomely mixed.

There's a one mixing problem, that continues throughout the DT albums. The bass is too silent for my taste in every album excluding WDADU.

[MoraWintersoul]

The bass is too silent for my taste in every CD I've heard so far except Iron Maiden's

[Ruba]

The bass is too silent for my taste in every CD I've heard so far except Iron Maiden's

I guess you have heard Rush's 2112? I think that it has bass loud enough.

[MoraWintersoul]

I guess you have heard Rush's 2112? I think that it has bass loud enough.

Ah, yes, forgot about that one. The point is, for us bass-loving people, you can't crank it up enough.

[goo-goo]

What does an engineer do anyway? Do they get all the microphones together and work with the sound in studio?

They do tons of stuff. One of the problems with ADTOE seems like it wasn't recorded very well even before being mixed. For that Paul Northfield is to blame.

I hope they stop hiring him. The last three albums all have inconsistencies in sound, ranging from minor to pretty huge. I personally think ADTOE is their most rough sounding album since WDADU. SFAM is pretty raw, but not bad.

Kevin Shirley did DT's best mixes imo. FII and SDOIT are both great, where you hear every instrument nice and clear without it sounding muddled or wonky. IaW is mixed great too, and Awake is fairly good in that regard too, although it lacks punch.

This goes for Adami and Blob

Would you be able to elaborate on such inconsistencies and if its possible some examples?

[skydivingninja]

FII has the best mix hands-down of any DT release.  SFAM, 6DoiT, Octavarium, and ADTOE have pretty good mixes, in that you can hear everything going on, but they don't sound REALLY good, I guess. 

[BlobVanDam]

This goes for Adami and Blob

Would you be able to elaborate on such inconsistencies and if its possible some examples?

Sure.

SC I think is actually pretty well mixed overall and I'd say definitely the best mix of the last 3, but the bass is still a bit too low in areas (Forsaken, TMOLS). Nothing where I can point out specific timestamps, because I'd say the problems are overall minor here.

On BCASL, the bass is mixed a bit weird. I don't know if it's lack of compression, or EQ, or both, but the bass disappears almost entirely when it enters the upper register. If you have the multitrack stems that come with the boxset, you'll hear a ton of bass upper range bass fills that are really difficult to hear on the album.
Just as a random example (first one I found on the stems), there's a part at 9:32 of TBOT where JM goes up really high on the neck and plays some high E triplets. If you know what you're listening for, you might just *barely* make it out on the album, but otherwise you'd never know it was even there. There's another high fill right after it at 9:39 that you might be able to make out, but it's not that very audible.
And in the sections of the album where the bass is quite loud (ANTR, TSF, parts of TCOT), it's EQ'd into a really low range, so it sounds pretty loud and boomy on a good sub, or high quality headphones, but on average computer speakers, it's difficult to hear at all. It's not really a balanced mix for a range of consumer equipment imo.

As for ADTOE, the whole mix feels raw and unfinished to me, and really puts me off listening to it more. The drums are mixed a bit low, and they don't sound like they've done much processing to them, so the drums sound very dry, the bass drum doesn't have much low end "kick", the snare is thin and flat sounding to me, and the cymbals are too low, and rough sounding. There's nothing wrong with having a lower drum mix (a lot of people welcome that change), but the drums don't cut through, so you can't hear a lot of what MM is doing.
The bass sound is much more distinguishable from the guitar overall than previous albums, partially due to JM using a much cleaner sound than he has on recent albums), but then on BMUBMD, the bass volume is AFJA/10 (ie non-existent), and their worst bass mix on any album.
Many parts of the mix are just unbalanced entirely. 1:20 of LNF is the first example I found. The bass guitar is a lot louder than everything else, and the bass drum is a wimpy little flappity clack sound in the background, and whatever cymbal MM is using is just a faint white noise sound for all I can tell.

Hopefully somewhere in that ramble, you find the answer you're looking for.

[IdoSC]

Every time I listen to DT's studio albums since Octavarium, I tend to forget they even have a bassist. It's that beautiful combination of the bass being too low in the mix, and the bass lines usually being fillers that you don't even try to hear as someone who doesn't play bass.

Sometimes, in certain songs, I'd certainly hear a section where one or the other issues would be temporarily resolved and then I'd go "Oh right, JM's here too". But I'd love to hear both John and the guy who's in charge of the mix trying to make it half as audible as it was in the Majesty Demos or something, just once.

[Bongasti]

I don't get how people consider SDOIT to have one their best in terms of production The mix is way muddier than, say, SFAM. Not to mention the bad mastering.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

That's because SDOIT sounds great, and I don't want to get all technical just because I'm an Audio Engineering student. Of course there are flaws, but it sounds hot without compromising too much the dynamic range.