Train of Thought and Octavarium

[bosk1]

I love listening to these two albums back to back.  To me, Train of Thought is DT's most one-dimensional album.  That's neither good nor bad.  It simply is what it is.  It's a good album.  But it is definitely one-dimensional.  Dark and heavy throughout, even the "stripped down ballad." 

Octavarium is a nice contrast to that.  It has plenty of heavy moments.  But as a whole, it feels more upbeat and more diverse.  Again, I'm not making a value judgment that that is bad or good.  It just is what it is, and people are free to like that or not. 

That being said, I just find that I really enjoy listening to these albums together.  When I have an urge to listen to one or the other, I often will follow it up with the other of the two.  They just provide such a nice contrast to one another. 

Anyone feel similarly?  Disagree?  Kevin Moore?

[Scorpion]

I agree on your basic assessment, but there are tracks on 8VM that keep me from being to be able to enjoy it when hearing it in it's entirity, which is why I never do it.

Sooo... I actually agree, but I don't do it as often as you do.

Also, Kevin Moore.

[SeRoX]

I like both but I rank them pretty low in my list though.

Octavarium is not as consistent as ToT, IMO. ToT can get you into its atmosphere from beginning to end. That's what I like about albums. Octavarium song itself is probably top 10 song but as a whole the album doesn't give the feeling of joy. Songs in their own are kind of OK but overall disjointed.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

TOT is my 7th favorite.

8VM is my 9th favorite.

I like TOT MUCH more than 8VM.

[CrimsonSunrise]

They compliment each other nicely. Ya know, I got yelled at last time I used "Kevin Moore", was told we don't do that anymore,  so knock it off Bosky   

[KevShmev]

TOT is my 7th favorite.

8VM is my 9th favorite.

I like TOT MUCH more than 8VM.

This sums it up for me, although 8VM is probably my 10th or 11th favorite (that and SC go back and forth on which is my least favorite by the band). 

But I can see how listening to these two back-to-back can be nice.  I remember when Octavarium came out, even though it has some rocking, metal tunes, it sounded so laid back to what we had just gotten from Train of Thought.  Plus, while ToT was dark and almost sterile (not meaning that necessarily in a bad or good way), Octavarium was bright and almost shiny in sound and textures.  It really is too bad that the songwriting as a whole on 8VM isn't better, but oh well.

[Unlegit]

Train of Thought is 6th, and Octavarium is 8th.

[Nekov]

Both are in the bottom of my DT list. So Kevin Moore for sure.

[bosk1]

Ya know, I got yelled at last time I used "Kevin Moore", was told we don't do that anymore,  so knock it off Bosky 

Sorry. 

[Ħ]

TOT has some solid songs, but as an album, I get burnt out fast.

Octavarium is easier to listen to, has less awesome songs, but has Octavarium of course.

Not great albums but pretty good nonetheless.

[54_diplomats]

I like Octavarium more, one of my favorite albums honestly but Train of Thought is great too and I always felt it was one of the more solid DT albums.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Sorry. 

Awww...ya know your still my Fav 49er fan 

[theseoafs]

I wouldn't necessarily say that either of these are "great" DT albums.  They both lie in the middle of my album rankings, I'm sure.

ToT is one-dimensional, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, because the one dimension in which ToT resides speaks to me.  I like DT's heavy sound, and I think ToT pulled this off very well (for the most part).  It's a pleasure to listen to, even if one does get burnt out listening to 70 minutes of nonstop metuuuuuhhhl.

Octavarium is a different beast.  It's incredibly diverse, but that also means it's rather hit and miss.  Because the album covers so much ground, I think most DT fans have a track on 8V which just turns them off.  Me, I find the album's songwriting to be rather lacking, with the only great, classic track from the album being the title track (and maybe The Root of All Evil, depending on what mood I'm in).

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Kevin Moore.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, personally, I think Six Degrees provides a better contrast to ToT. I mean, aside from TGP and The Test, Six Degrees is pretty much all major and melodic. And to follow it with Train of Thought which is all balls, I thought there was a lot of contrast there.

I actually consider Octavarium to be a very well rounded and versatile album. It's got two heavy songs, one piano ballad, 3 casual rock-ish songs, and two typical progressive DT songs. I honestly think there's something on that album for everyone.

Derek Sherinian

[Pols Voice]

I like TOT MUCH more than 8VM.

Also, Mevin Koore.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

 

I don't know what it is.. I LOVE 4 of the 8 songs on 8VM, and think I Walk Beside You and These Walls are good songs, the other 2 are meh, but I don't know why it ranks so low on my list.

[Jaffa]

I don't think I ever actually have listened to ToT and 8VM back to back.  I might try it today while I'm writing, though, so I'll get back to you. 

[fadetoblackdude7]

I too have always felt this way about about these 2 albums. While I enjoy 8vm a lot more, they both compliment each other quite well 

[senecadawg2]

I don't actually listen to either of them too often, and rarely in their entirety (because of certain songs on each album- Honor Thy Father, Panic Attack), but you are right in that they compliment each other well.

[KevShmev]

I actually consider Octavarium to be a very well rounded and versatile album. It's got two heavy songs, one piano ballad, 3 casual rock-ish songs, and two typical progressive DT songs. I honestly think there's something on that album for everyone.

It is well rounded and versatile, but the problem for me (and others, it would seem) is too many of the songs are just too average. On the flip side, I&W is pretty well rounded as well, but every song on that record is tremendous and pretty much considered a classic.

[TheGreatPretender]

It is well rounded and versatile, but the problem for me (and others, it would seem) is too many of the songs are just too average. On the flip side, I&W is pretty well rounded as well, but every song on that record is tremendous and pretty much considered a classic.

Well, personally, based on my own tastes, I'd say Images and Words lacks a really heavy song. I mean, it's got PMU, which is awesome, but all in all, I'd say it's a relatively soft, very proggy album. Which is great in its own right. But I feel like Octavarium hits both ends of the spectrum a lot harder.
I'm definitely not gonna say that Octavarium is better. For my money, it can't touch Images and Words.
But either way, all I was saying is that I think Six Degrees is a better example of an album that completely contrasts Train of Though, whereas Octavarium, to me, feels like it's musically a combination of Six Degrees and ToT.

[kirksnosehair]

I tend to judge albums by how many of the tracks I don't skip.  By that measure, Octavarium doesn't fare that well, since I skip quite a good chunk of it.


Train of Thought, on the other hand, I usually listen to in its entirety.

[TheGreatPretender]

When I listen to an album, I never skip any tracks.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I always skip tracks depending on my mood, but it doesn't dictate my overall opinion of the album.  Of any album, FII has more skipped songs than any other, yet it's #5 for me.

[TheGreatPretender]

I always skip tracks depending on my mood, but it doesn't dictate my overall opinion of the album.  Of any album, FII has more skipped songs than any other, yet it's #5 for me.

Well, I don't always listen to the albums in their entirety. Sometimes, I just put together a playlist based on my mood and listen to it on random.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I always skip tracks depending on my mood, but it doesn't dictate my overall opinion of the album.  Of any album, FII has more skipped songs than any other, yet it's #5 for me.

Well, I don't always listen to the albums in their entirety. Sometimes, I just put together a playlist based on my mood and listen to it on random.

If I was sophisticated enough to actually have my MP3 player in my car instead of CD's...I'd do the same..   I'm Old Skool 

[Perpetual Change]

Train of Thought is a decent album, and it's great for the gym because it's heavier and keeps me there for over an hour, but I dislike how angry and egotistical some of the lyrics are.

I almost never listen to Octavarium anymore, except for when I watch Score because all the good 8va songs are on it anyway.

[DebraKadabra]

I like both kind of equally so... Kevin Merr it is.

[voncorn]

-

[TheGreatPretender]

Both Train of Thought and Octavarium were neither that good of albums for DT standards. Such a bummer that the same group of musicians and even recording engineer ended up churning out such mediocre products after how all around brilliant Scenes and Six Degrees were.

Well the thing about Scenes is, once you achieve perfection, you can't really improve on something like that.

But I personally think that Six Degrees is pretty consisted with ToT and 8V. They all have their hits and misses.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Nah, SDOIT is the perfect album. SFAM is pretty much perfect too, though.

[KevShmev]

Both Train of Thought and Octavarium were neither that good of albums for DT standards. Such a bummer that the same group of musicians and even recording engineer ended up churning out such mediocre products after how all around brilliant Scenes and Six Degrees were.

Neither are great, but neither are bad either.  And let's face it, not even the best bands in the world can make every album be a 5-star classic.  Every band has ups and downs, but the best bands' downs (Rush, DT, PT, LZ, etc.) are still usually at worst good. 

[JayOctavarium]

Did you know, if you put Octavarium on right after Train of Thought, they flow into each other? 



Seriously though... I haven't listened to them b2b in a while... i should soon.. because I they do compliment each other very well

[TheGreatPretender]

Neither are great, but neither are bad either.  And let's face it, not even the best bands in the world can make every album be a 5-star classic.  Every band has ups and downs, but the best bands' downs (Rush, DT, PT, LZ, etc.) are still usually at worst good.

The problem is that with every release, people tend to judge it based on their best work. On a curve, so to speak. So to say, "Well, such and such album isn't as good as SFAM" or "I&W" or whatever that person holds to the highest esteem, "Therefore it's an only okay album." But I think people need to appreciate the albums for what they are. Black Clouds is near the bottom of my list of favorite DT albums, but it's still DT, still my favorite band and I'll take Black Clouds and Silver Linings over, say, the best Black Sabbath or Judas Priest album, even though I love those bands.
I mean, look at Rush, yes, they've had their ups and downs, but frankly, just taking it for what it is, I think Roll The Bones is pretty awesome. I'm not gonna say, "It's just an okay song because it's not as good as Fly By Night or YYZ."

But yeah, I basically agree with you. It's not fair to call ToT and 8V "mediocre". They're still awesome.

[ZKX-2099]

I agree with the thread and have nothing to add except...


Mike Portnoy.