Train of Thought and Octavarium

[KevShmev]

Neither are great, but neither are bad either.  And let's face it, not even the best bands in the world can make every album be a 5-star classic.  Every band has ups and downs, but the best bands' downs (Rush, DT, PT, LZ, etc.) are still usually at worst good.

The problem is that with every release, people tend to judge it based on their best work. On a curve, so to speak. So to say, "Well, such and such album isn't as good as SFAM" or "I&W" or whatever that person holds to the highest esteem, "Therefore it's an only okay album." But I think people need to appreciate the albums for what they are. Black Clouds is near the bottom of my list of favorite DT albums, but it's still DT, still my favorite band and I'll take Black Clouds and Silver Linings over, say, the best Black Sabbath or Judas Priest album, even though I love those bands.
I mean, look at Rush, yes, they've had their ups and downs, but frankly, just taking it for what it is, I think Roll The Bones is pretty awesome. I'm not gonna say, "It's just an okay song because it's not as good as Fly By Night or YYZ."

But yeah, I basically agree with you. It's not fair to call ToT and 8V "mediocre". They're still awesome.

It is if you think they are mediocre. 

And sorry, but as much as I love the band's music, I cannot get on board with the "DT's worst albums are better than most bands' best albums" line of thinking.  But I can appreciate the fact that DT's least best albums have still been good (I'd give both SC and OV probably 2.5 or 3 stars out of 5, depending on my mood that day).

[TheGreatPretender]

It's not so much a line of thinking as just simple opinion. DT isn't my favorite band because they wrote Metropolis or SFAM. It's the other way around, that music was the result of many factors, including amazing musicianship and a certain style of playing. It's that musicianship and style that ultimately made me a fan. And that musicianship and style is present in all DT albums, including Systematic Chaos, Train of Thought, etc. Now, if DT made a simple, acoustic album, then yeah, I'd probably say, "No, I'll take certain Iron Maiden/Megadeth/etc. albums over this."

[Jaffa]

Listened to both albums back-to-back tonight, and didn't find it to be a particularly special experience.  Not that I didn't enjoy the music, I just didn't feel like they went especially well together. 

[Phoenix87x]

Well, I have loved TOT since the day it was released and have consistently loved it to this day.

Octavarium, on the other hand, I liked a lot when it was released, have cooled on a little bit. Its still pretty cool though.

[?]

Both albums are good but neither is in the upper half of my DT album ranking. TOT is pretty consistent but one-dimensional and 8V is multi-dimensional yet inconsistent.

[The King in Crimson]

ToT I consider to be my 3rd least favorite DT album.  It's overly heavy, it's sterile and it lacks some real standout songs.  "As I Am" is probably one DT's best straight-forward rockers, "Honor Thy Father" is alright, "This Dying Soul" is good but is a little too long, "In The Name Of God" is the same.  "Stream of Consciousness" is okay, kinda cool but I never seem to want to listen to it.  "Endless Sacrifice" I usually skip.

8vm is right in the middle of the pack.  I love some songs, but it's not a very consistent album overall.  "The Root Of All Evil", "Sacrificed Sons" and the title-track are all great songs and the rest I enjoy in various ways.  "Never Enough" comes close to being a skip, but I still enjoy it musically.

I'll take 8vm any day of the week.

[Marion Crane]

I'm a huge fan of the first three tracks on TOT, and pretty much nothing after that.  Octavarium is probably my least favorite DT album after WDADU

[MoraWintersoul]

TOT is pretty consistent but one-dimensional and 8V is multi-dimensional yet inconsistent.

You should apologize to that nail over there, you just hit it hard on the head

[manticore999]

I tend to judge albums by how many of the tracks I don't skip.  By that measure, Octavarium doesn't fare that well, since I skip quite a good chunk of it.


Train of Thought, on the other hand, I usually listen to in its entirety.

I use the same kind of measure to judge albums.  By that measure I really don't care for either album.  I rarely listen to anything on either album!

[?]

TOT is pretty consistent but one-dimensional and 8V is multi-dimensional yet inconsistent.

You should apologize to that nail over there, you just hit it hard on the head

Sorry, nail!

Seriously though, I slightly prefer TOT due to the aforementioned consistency. Even not-so-diverse albums can be great if they are solid throughout, Katatonia's Brave Murder Day being a prime example.

[Progmetty]

? is right on.
For me I don't enjoy Octavarium half as much as ToT. I haven't played the Octavarium CD since it's release year, I just listen to songs here and there. Basically what I get out of Octavarium is TROAE and occasionally when my attention span is up to it the title track.
Panic Attack and These Walls are good tracks but I never really miss them at all, much like most WDADU songs.

[Sketchy]

I can see how listening to them back to back would work actually. I might try that.

I do like them both, but also Mevin Koore.

[Western Ninja]

I much prefer ToT, though that's probably because I come from a more metal background and it appeals to my heavy-lovingness more.

Plus, I can't stand I Walk Beside You or the second half of TROAE, so I wouldn't get very far through 8VM if I were listening to them back to back.

Also, my first post includes Kevin Moore. Deal with it.