I figured out exactly what it is that makes Awake one of my least favorites...

[CrimsonSunrise]

It's the keyboard tones!

I agree. And to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the keyboard sounds DS had either. I think Jordan is a wiz (no pun intended) at finding the best sounding tones and samples.

Just out of curiosity, did you become a fan after JR joined?  I've noticed in the past, and not with just DT, that fans don't connect as much with earlier band members than the ones they "Started with".  Just my perception, could very well be wrong    I started with KM, and I like all 3.  I think each brought their own flavor to the band.

[DebraKadabra]

I started with KM, and I like all 3.  I think each brought their own flavor to the band.

I agree with this.  Yes, my personal favorite for a long time was Kevin.  Derek brought an interesting understated style to DT, but you have to admit that of the three, Jordan really is the best fit for DT - especially now that the "goofy" patches are predominantly gone.

[CodyWanKenobi]

It's the keyboard tones!

I agree. And to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the keyboard sounds DS had either. I think Jordan is a wiz (no pun intended) at finding the best sounding tones and samples.

Just out of curiosity, did you become a fan after JR joined?  I've noticed in the past, and not with just DT, that fans don't connect as much with earlier band members than the ones they "Started with".  Just my perception, could very well be wrong    I started with KM, and I like all 3.  I think each brought their own flavor to the band.

I didn't say I liked Jordan more, I just said I like his keyboard sounds. A lot of which has to do with today's technology vs the technology of the early 90's.

And I'm not necessarily more partial to Jordan because he's the guy I "started with". I started with MP too, and I personally think MM is more deserving and more skilled than MP. (not trying to start an MP vs MM debate, I swear.)

[Ħ]

It's the keyboard tones!

I agree. And to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the keyboard sounds DS had either. I think Jordan is a wiz (no pun intended) at finding the best sounding tones and samples.

Just out of curiosity, did you become a fan after JR joined?  I've noticed in the past, and not with just DT, that fans don't connect as much with earlier band members than the ones they "Started with".  Just my perception, could very well be wrong    I started with KM, and I like all 3.  I think each brought their own flavor to the band.

I started with JR. But for a long time Awake was my favorite album, and Kev was my favorite keyboard player. I've gone back and forth.

[Dublagent66]

Innocence faded is a real one-of-a-kind song for me, in the sense that I pretty much hated it after hearing it for the first couple of times and thought it was cheesy, but after a while it grew so much on me that it became a top 20 favorite. That never happened with anything else, ever.

That was me with Home. But Innocence Faded really did grow on me quite a bit.

I appreciated IF a lot more after hearing live on Score.  That's the best version.

[DebraKadabra]

I agree - Score version of IF is the best them.

[TheGreatPretender]

I appreciated IF a lot more after hearing live on Score.  That's the best version.

I actually heard Innocence Faded on Score first. And then I picked up Awake, and I was still underwhelmed by it. But I dunno, it's like that for almost every song with DT.
Almost. I still don't see very much appeal in New Millennium or The Great Debate.

[Ruba]

Yes, keyboard sounds aren't always top notch on Awake (I love CIAW keys though). But that's not enough to make me love it less.

[Elite]

I appreciated IF a lot more after hearing live on Score.  That's the best version.

I actually heard Innocence Faded on Score first. And then I picked up Awake, and I was still underwhelmed by it. But I dunno, it's like that for almost every song with DT.
Almost. I still don't see very much appeal in New Millennium or The Great Debate.

Well, Innocence Faded and The Great debate are both top 10 DT songs for me. I get what you mean with New Millennium though, I don't like that song at all.

[iamtheeviltwin]

I appreciated IF a lot more after hearing live on Score.  That's the best version.

I actually heard Innocence Faded on Score first. And then I picked up Awake, and I was still underwhelmed by it. But I dunno, it's like that for almost every song with DT.
Almost. I still don't see very much appeal in New Millennium or The Great Debate.

Well, Innocence Faded and The Great debate are both top 10 DT songs for me. I get what you mean with New Millennium though, I don't like that song at all.

The lyrics kill New Millennium for me.  Musically the song isn't horrible and has a catchy main riff, but the lyrical content and vocal phrasing are pretty bad.  It is one of my bottom 10 or so DT songs.

[TheGreatPretender]

The lyrics kill New Millennium for me.  Musically the song isn't horrible and has a catchy main riff, but the lyrical content and vocal phrasing are pretty bad.  It is one of my bottom 10 or so DT songs.

The actual vocals are just not that good. I couldn't figure out why I didn't like New Millennium, and then LaBrie said it's not very fun to sing, and that's probably the main reason. But the intro keyboards are kinda bland, too.

[MoraWintersoul]

NM just kind of blows. With every other album, there's an opening track that makes me jump up and down, like "yaaaay hell yeah starting my lovely millionth full listen, I love you Dream Theater", while with NM and FII, I just sink into my chair. Or hit the floor with a loud thump when I remember "watching you run is making me lazy" will follow it. Most of the time I just skip these two. I wouldn't go as far as to say they completely ruin FII for me, but you do NEED a good opener.

[TheGreatPretender]

I like You Not Me, but I'll like any DT song that comes AFTER New Millennium. I only ever listen to it for completion's sake.

[MoraWintersoul]

I wish I weren't a completion addict whenever I play FII. It's bad enough I end SFAM with TSCO every time 

[TheGreatPretender]

I wish I weren't a completion addict whenever I play FII. It's bad enough I end SFAM with TSCO every time 

I don't get it... why would you end it on TSCO?

[MoraWintersoul]

I don't get it... why would you end it on TSCO?

Because I'm deathly afraid of Finally Free and can't listen to it to save my life.

Yeah, wuss

[TheGreatPretender]

Because I'm deathly afraid of Finally Free and can't listen to it to save my life.

Yeah, wuss

Haha, okay, but that's not exactly completionist, is it? It's more like, the opposite? Like, for you, that's where the story ends, so you exclude the last track for yourself.

[Kyo]

I actually don't have a problem with the synths for the most part. My problem with Awake is that most of the songs are just awkward as fuck to listen to. All the vocal melodies sound out of place

Yeah, I think the vocal melodies are a huge step down from the perfection that was I&W.

If I had a a problem with the keyboards on Awake, it would be this..On Awake, they seem to take a back seat. Kind of coloring in here and there. On I&W , the keyboards were far more active and involved. On Awake, they just seem so passive.

No surprise there, though - Kevin sounds like he didn't want to be there because, well - he didn't! 

The first three songs could gladly be chopped off

I've long felt this way about Awake. Sure, 6:00 has some fantastic drumming and the ending solo of Innocence Faded is one of my favorite bits of the CD, but I've always felt these three songs were a really weak start.

[robwebster]

I wish I weren't a completion addict whenever I play FII. It's bad enough I end SFAM with TSCO every time 

Be a full-on completion addict and listen to the two-disc blowout version instead. Raise the Knife would've joined the ranks of the all-time great album openers. Should've done, really.

[MoraWintersoul]

Be a full-on completion addict and listen to the two-disc blowout version instead. Raise the Knife would've joined the ranks of the all-time great album openers. Should've done, really.

I KNOW *emotional breakdown*. Whose idea was leaving that one out anyway??? Bad decision-making. I'm sure this was discussed many times before, but I just don't get it. Although, I'm thrilled it didn't go exactly the way they wanted it, because I prefer SFAM to the hypothetical Metropolis pt.2 song they would have ended up with.

Oh well, RTK kicks ass on Score.

Haha, okay, but that's not exactly completionist, is it? It's more like, the opposite? Like, for you, that's where the story ends, so you exclude the last track for yourself.

Yeah, it is the opposite, so the completionist in me feels guilty.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I know no one cares, but while we're talking about FII:

Yesterday I ripped COTC and FII in .wav format, then burned my ultimate FII:

1. New Millennium
2. Raise the Knife
3. Peruvian Skies
4. Hollow Years
5. Hell's Kitchen
6. Lines in the Sand
7. Speak to Me
8. Trial of Tears

It's just glorious, and CD quality too!

[Scorpion]

Swith NM with DLPM and add Anna Lee, and we're good. 

[wasteland]

Swith NM with DLPM and add Anna Lee, and we're good. 

Don't Look Past Me is a rejected IAW song   

[snapple]

I like FII and think the album is pretty strong as an album. Not too many songs I like playing out of order.

[Scorpion]

Swith NM with DLPM and add Anna Lee, and we're good. 

Don't Look Past Me is a rejected IAW song   

Yeah, but it's on Cleaning out the Closet, to which TOX had been referring.

[wasteland]

Swith NM with DLPM and add Anna Lee, and we're good. 

Don't Look Past Me is a rejected IAW song   

Yeah, but it's on Cleaning out the Closet, to which TOX had been referring.

Of course, but if I didn't misunderstand his purpose completely, he was going to recreate Falling Into Infinity using the best songs written for it, not all the song in COTC.

[Scorpion]

Right, my bad. He did say that he wanted to create the ultimate FII and that he used COTC for that, not that he wanted to create a "Best of FII & COTC". 

[TheGreatPretender]

I KNOW *emotional breakdown*. Whose idea was leaving that one out anyway??? Bad decision-making. I'm sure this was discussed many times before, but I just don't get it. Although, I'm thrilled it didn't go exactly the way they wanted it, because I prefer SFAM to the hypothetical Metropolis pt.2 song they would have ended up with.

From what I've read, they started working on that version of Metropolis Pt. 2, but then threw it by the wayside in order to work on the other songs for Falling Into Infinity, so I don't think that would've made it in the original version of the album anyway.

[SjundeInseglet]

The first three songs could gladly be chopped off

I've long felt this way about Awake. Sure, 6:00 has some fantastic drumming and the ending solo of Innocence Faded is one of my favorite bits of the CD, but I've always felt these three songs were a really weak start.

I beg to differ. There's a lot more to "6:00" than its (admittedly awesome) drum parts (a definite highlight of MP's tenure with the band). For one, JP's guitar tone and actual guitar parts are pretty funky and unique-sounding for DT. He never quite went back to the silky, almost Strat-like tone he used for the guitar parts on "6:00" (which, to me, is shame because it makes the guitar stand out a helluva lot better than his current, distortion-soaked tone... it just blended in better with the other instruments, particularly the keyboads). Also, the lyrics to "6:00" are pretty good and insightful (and document KM's psyche at the time pretty accurately).

"Caught in a Web" has always been a pennial favorite of mine. JB's vocals on it are beyond amazing. I always dug the grittier approach he took on "Awake" (it gave the vocals added character and-- for the lack of a better terms-- some balls) and I think it worked particularly well on this song (giving an extra dimension to the jaded lyrics). I also always have been enamoured with the chromatic section they stuck in the middle of the song. I think it gives the song a slight (yet adequate) progressive touch and the section itself sounds extremely cool.

I like "Innocence Faded" a whole lot too and never really understood why it got so much heat from most DT fans. Sure, it's not the most mind-blowing and original song you'll ever hear but it's pretty neat and I've always liked it. And that Dregs-influenced outro is simply outstanding. That's as anthemic as DT ever got (without sounding cheesy or forced in the slightest). I like the lyrics too.

NM just kind of blows. With every other album, there's an opening track that makes me jump up and down, like "yaaaay hell yeah starting my lovely millionth full listen, I love you Dream Theater", while with NM and FII, I just sink into my chair. Or hit the floor with a loud thump when I remember "watching you run is making me lazy" will follow it. Most of the time I just skip these two. I wouldn't go as far as to say they completely ruin FII for me, but you do NEED a good opener.

I disagree. This is DT's sole foray into the minimalist, locked-in, almost drone-like approach that's common fare for people like Trey Gunn (who excels at it). It's the kind of thing that sounds proggy as hell and (if done right) that can help you attain musical bliss (probably trance-induced... but what the heck). Also, "New Millennium" features one of the most focused and interesting instrumental section the band ever did (one that no one can accuse of being wank-driven). I do agree that the vocal melodies and the lyrics could be better though...

[MoraWintersoul]

From what I've read, they started working on that version of Metropolis Pt. 2, but then threw it by the wayside in order to work on the other songs for Falling Into Infinity, so I don't think that would've made it in the original version of the album anyway.

Really? I had no idea, thanks for that piece of info

[snapple]

From what I've read, they started working on that version of Metropolis Pt. 2, but then threw it by the wayside in order to work on the other songs for Falling Into Infinity, so I don't think that would've made it in the original version of the album anyway.

Really? I had no idea, thanks for that piece of info

tada!

[wasteland]

From what I've read, they started working on that version of Metropolis Pt. 2, but then threw it by the wayside in order to work on the other songs for Falling Into Infinity, so I don't think that would've made it in the original version of the album anyway.

Really? I had no idea, thanks for that piece of info

*snip*
tada!

You should pull it down before the modding squad arrives 

[snapple]

From what I've read, they started working on that version of Metropolis Pt. 2, but then threw it by the wayside in order to work on the other songs for Falling Into Infinity, so I don't think that would've made it in the original version of the album anyway.

Really? I had no idea, thanks for that piece of info

*snip*
tada!

You should pull it down before the modding squad arrives 

whoops! I thought I had seen some links before...or is it for bootlegs that aren't official releases?

[wasteland]

whoops! I thought I had seen some links before...or is it for bootlegs that aren't official releases?

I believe that there should not be links to any officially released material. Well, it's not that posting Met2 would have earned you a warning or a ban, but it's always safest to stick to the rules. And most of the time, there is always a way to bypass the ban for official material searching for similar unofficial performances on youtube. Not this time, though. 

[snapple]

k. the mods are probably sick of me "forgetting" rules like that. I'll earn a boot in the ass (it's the American way) if I keep doing that.