2012-07-14 - PNC Bank Arts Center - Holmdel, NJ

[2Timer]

I did feel bad for the band. There people who chose to sit way back and have a whole to themselves (which I do understand), but those of us closer to the stage made sure to make up for the lack of people with loud cheering. I think DT enjoyed their night.
I looked for who I thought could be forum members in the parking lot before going in, but no luck.

[DT2003]

Yeah, great show!  Security were being pricks about the cameras.  I was able to get some pretty good shots with mine and could have gotten a bunch more until they came over telling me to put the camera down.  I even said to the one lady (white shirt with headset on) that my camera doesn't have a flash, and she told me that the "Band doesn't want pictures".  I couldn't believe that.  I've been a fan since 1989 and not once have I heard that one.  Then again, this is one of the first times I actually brought a good camera.  Anyway, I managed (along with many others) taken some good ones here and there.  I was on an isle seat, 6th row center stage, so security was patrolling back and forth.

Sorry but you are mistaken about security.  Security was actually as nice as could be given the circumstances.  For some reason ever since MP left the band, DT does not allow pictures at their concerts.  I was two rows behind you (aisle seat, center stage 8th row) and that same lady came to me and was as polite as could be.  I have been to 3 DT shows since MP left the band and at all 3 security said that the band gave strict orders that pictures were not allowed.  At all three they also apologized saying that the venue would have no problem allowing pictures if not ordered otherwise.  At one show people even got thrown out for taking pictures.  I love DT but I think it's such bullshit that everyone is blaming security when DT are the ones demanding that pictures not be taken.  I have been to PNC numberous times and there has never been once until last night that pictures were not allowed.

[chiromannj]

This was my 26th DT show since 1994. They did sound great and played tight.  But i was really surprised on how disengaged they were with the crowd.  The whole band was set up atleast 20 feet away from the front row.  JP maybe came up front about 6 times throughout the whole show.  James came up more often.  I have been to so many shows where JP basically plays the whole show in front of the audience, was just a bit disappointed.  Just felt like they were playing for themselves and not so much for the small audience.

Again, the security were being huge pricks last night.  I had a 4th row ticket and moved up to front row when the show started (since it was pretty empty).  He singled me out and made me go back but left everyone that went up there to stay.

I also think the light turnout is that they are overplaying the area this week.  2 dates on LI and next saturday in Atlantic City.  If they just did the one LI gig, im sure PNC would of been mostly filled in the seated area.

Just my 2 cents

[cramx3]

Yeah, great show!  Security were being pricks about the cameras.  I was able to get some pretty good shots with mine and could have gotten a bunch more until they came over telling me to put the camera down.  I even said to the one lady (white shirt with headset on) that my camera doesn't have a flash, and she told me that the "Band doesn't want pictures".  I couldn't believe that.  I've been a fan since 1989 and not once have I heard that one.  Then again, this is one of the first times I actually brought a good camera.  Anyway, I managed (along with many others) taken some good ones here and there.  I was on an isle seat, 6th row center stage, so security was patrolling back and forth.

Sorry but you are mistaken about security.  Security was actually as nice as could be given the circumstances.  For some reason ever since MP left the band, DT does not allow pictures at their concerts.  I was two rows behind you (aisle seat, center stage 8th row) and that same lady came to me and was as polite as could be.  I have been to 3 DT shows since MP left the band and at all 3 security said that the band gave strict orders that pictures were not allowed.  At all three they also apologized saying that the venue would have no problem allowing pictures if not ordered otherwise.  At one show people even got thrown out for taking pictures.  I love DT but I think it's such bullshit that everyone is blaming security when DT are the ones demanding that pictures not be taken.  I have been to PNC numberous times and there has never been once until last night that pictures were not allowed.

The last four times I saw DT (beacon theater twice, msg, and pnc) they had no problem with me taking pictures and clips with my phone.

[ResultsMayVary]

Yeah, great show!  Security were being pricks about the cameras.  I was able to get some pretty good shots with mine and could have gotten a bunch more until they came over telling me to put the camera down.  I even said to the one lady (white shirt with headset on) that my camera doesn't have a flash, and she told me that the "Band doesn't want pictures".  I couldn't believe that.  I've been a fan since 1989 and not once have I heard that one.  Then again, this is one of the first times I actually brought a good camera.  Anyway, I managed (along with many others) taken some good ones here and there.  I was on an isle seat, 6th row center stage, so security was patrolling back and forth.

Sorry but you are mistaken about security.  Security was actually as nice as could be given the circumstances.  For some reason ever since MP left the band, DT does not allow pictures at their concerts.  I was two rows behind you (aisle seat, center stage 8th row) and that same lady came to me and was as polite as could be.  I have been to 3 DT shows since MP left the band and at all 3 security said that the band gave strict orders that pictures were not allowed.  At all three they also apologized saying that the venue would have no problem allowing pictures if not ordered otherwise.  At one show people even got thrown out for taking pictures.  I love DT but I think it's such bullshit that everyone is blaming security when DT are the ones demanding that pictures not be taken.  I have been to PNC numberous times and there has never been once until last night that pictures were not allowed.

The last four times I saw DT (beacon theater twice, msg, and pnc) they had no problem with me taking pictures and clips with my phone.

Same here. No problem taking pictures at the Columbus and Cleveland shows on this current leg of the tour. I took several pictures while several staff at both shows were standing not ten feet from me and seemed to not care.

[DT2003]

Well I can only go by the shows I was at and at all 3 shows the venues explicitly said it was the bands orders that pictures were not allowed.  And in 2 of the 3 venues, I attend seversal shows and was NEVER told at any other show that pictures weren't allowed.

[Nick]

Was great seeing you folks at the show, and it was fantastic. I was pleasantly surprised with how good the Projekt was.

[Zook]

I met Pirate LePond once. Didn't get a picture though.

[Major Thirteenth]

This was my 26th DT show since 1994. They did sound great and played tight.  But i was really surprised on how disengaged they were with the crowd.  The whole band was set up atleast 20 feet away from the front row.  JP maybe came up front about 6 times throughout the whole show.  James came up more often.  I have been to so many shows where JP basically plays the whole show in front of the audience, was just a bit disappointed.  Just felt like they were playing for themselves and not so much for the small audience.

Again, the security were being huge pricks last night.  I had a 4th row ticket and moved up to front row when the show started (since it was pretty empty).  He singled me out and made me go back but left everyone that went up there to stay.

I also think the light turnout is that they are overplaying the area this week.  2 dates on LI and next saturday in Atlantic City.  If they just did the one LI gig, im sure PNC would of been mostly filled in the seated area.

Just my 2 cents

Interestingly, I spoke to John after the show about the venue and the sound. He said PNC is weird in that he felt "detached" from the crowd due to the size and configuration of the stage. So the feeling of isolation appears to have been a 2-way disconnect.

[Dr.StrangeNote]

Yeah, great show!  Security were being pricks about the cameras.  I was able to get some pretty good shots with mine and could have gotten a bunch more until they came over telling me to put the camera down.  I even said to the one lady (white shirt with headset on) that my camera doesn't have a flash, and she told me that the "Band doesn't want pictures".  I couldn't believe that.  I've been a fan since 1989 and not once have I heard that one.  Then again, this is one of the first times I actually brought a good camera.  Anyway, I managed (along with many others) taken some good ones here and there.  I was on an isle seat, 6th row center stage, so security was patrolling back and forth.

Sorry but you are mistaken about security.  Security was actually as nice as could be given the circumstances.  For some reason ever since MP left the band, DT does not allow pictures at their concerts.  I was two rows behind you (aisle seat, center stage 8th row) and that same lady came to me and was as polite as could be.  I have been to 3 DT shows since MP left the band and at all 3 security said that the band gave strict orders that pictures were not allowed.  At all three they also apologized saying that the venue would have no problem allowing pictures if not ordered otherwise.  At one show people even got thrown out for taking pictures.  I love DT but I think it's such bullshit that everyone is blaming security when DT are the ones demanding that pictures not be taken.  I have been to PNC numberous times and there has never been once until last night that pictures were not allowed.

That same lady said to me, "enough with the pictures already", and started making faces and shaking her head.  I looked at her making sure it was me she was referring to before I put the camera down and said, that my camera doesn't have a flash.  It clearly states on the PNC Bank Arts Center website, that personal cameras are allowed, no Flash photography or detachable lens cameras permitted.  My camera was allowed in, it doesn't have a detachable lens but takes killer shots.  Otherwise I would have never brought it in, like I never have before.

Now, if there was an issue with pictures and if Dream Theater or a spokes person would have stated that upfront, I would have no problem at all honoring that request out of pure respect for the band and their wishes.  I did, however,  stop taking pictures, not because of that lady and her remarks about those pictures that I was getting, but because another security fella came to me after I caught a few good ones intermittently and said, 'come on man, just please put down the camera".  After that, I did for most of the show.  I snapped a few of memorable shots such as when JR walked upfront with his synth, and JM and JP next to each other up front and some other randoms.  Aside from that, other people nearby were getting pics on their cell phones pretty much all night long.  Security would shine the flashlights on them until they stopped doing it.  I could understand if the band didn't want the flashes in their faces and all, but fans just getting memories, that's just insane to enforce that.  You say that DT is the ones demanding pictures not to be taken.  Did you read or hear that from them, or the venue?

Again, in all my years of going to shows, not once have I heard that the band didn't want to be photographed.  With or without MP being there or not.  If that is the case, I'd like to know for sure rather than some made up policy from the venue. 

[Dr.StrangeNote]

Here are two more from last night:

[Dr.StrangeNote]

Two more:



John's fingers were going so fast, the camera couldn't keep up!

[Progmetty]

The pictures problem has happened to me at every concert I've been to in a seating venue the last couple of years, ranging from Roger Waters to Dream Theater to Chris Daughtry heh
And never had a problem with taking pictures at stadium type places that has general admission area, ranging from Green Day to Trans-Siberian Orchestra to Metallica to Rammstein. Green Day being a band that has actually publicly expressed their dismay with photography at their live shows. And these stadiums don't just permit picture taking in the GA section but also in their seating sections, they just don't have instructions to prevent it.
So long story short I think it's a venue thing.

[DebraKadabra]

I'd be willing to go along with that if it were an isolated incident, but at all of the shows we went to last week we saw peeps getting away with taking pics but a lot more were hassled about it.  So... that leads me to believe that it's NOT a venue thing.

[kevinpwrs]

I don't mind when photos are not allowed. That means I won't have to look through and around dozens of cameras that are being held up in the air in front of me. Is it DT or the venue? I don't know nor do I care. This is straight from DT.net:

"Do not take photos during the concert as most venues don't allow photography during shows." A few lines down, we read this:

"Again, no more photos of the band onstage, please; we have so many good ones already. And be sure to respect house rules when taking photos inside every venue, if we want to keep this going, thanks."

That's 2 requests from DT's official site to not take pics of the band during concerts. Looks like DT does have a hand in this.

[Major Thirteenth]

I don't mind when photos are not allowed. That means I won't have to look through and around dozens of cameras that are being held up in the air in front of me. Is it DT or the venue? I don't know nor do I care. This is straight from DT.net:

"Do not take photos during the concert as most venues don't allow photography during shows." A few lines down, we read this:

"Again, no more photos of the band onstage, please; we have so many good ones already. And be sure to respect house rules when taking photos inside every venue, if we want to keep this going, thanks."

That's 2 requests from DT's official site to not take pics of the band during concerts. Looks like DT does have a hand in this.

Warning: Cranky agreement advisory.

Have to agree with this. I know everyone thinks their concert pictures are special, but really, no. Every picture that I see submitted I have seen 2,000,000 times by 2,000,000 fans. Not to mention the pros. There are only so many combinations and permutations of a guy on a stage wincing while he plays his guitar or drums. I don't need to see any more of these, they are all the same, just a different dude pressing the exposure button.

And I know you went to the show. And your friends really don't care. So we don't need the forensic evidence. And I certainly don't need your dopey Iphone being held up in the air blocking my view of the show.

I do think some of this is the result of the proliferation of higher quality phones and cameras that take HD video. I don't think it's the amateur-hour snap shots that are the main concern. I think it's the video. If millions of fans are shooting hi-def concert footage and plastering it all over social media, then what value does a band release have?

I run with a Canon EOS 5D2 and lots of wide angle L-glass. If I were to shoot DT shows with this camera, the quality of the video, even in my amateur hands, would be fantastic. If we're all shooting this and releasing it everywhere in the universe, the overall value of concert video footage would drop. I could go online, assemble various HD footage taken by a hundred fans, download into Symphony, add some effects and titles, and come up with a surprisingly professional looking video and stick it on Facebook. Multiply this by millions of fans and voila, another income stream for live musicians is down the you-tube.

[Dr.StrangeNote]

got it, thanks! that's all i needed to read. 

[wkiml]

I hated how the security was very strict with pictures.  I moved to the back and was able to get all of Metropolis (minus the first 10-20 seconds) on video, here's the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbe7GDgjzg4&feature=youtu.be

Pictures they didn't have a problem with it was video (its against the venue policy) I took well over 100 pictures have to get the best ones and I'll post them tonight or tomorrow

I was in section 103 in front of Myung

JP actually looked my way a couple of times and actually stop for me to snap of a picture, James on the other hand seem to spin away each time my camera came up

[DT2003]

I hated how the security was very strict with pictures.  I moved to the back and was able to get all of Metropolis (minus the first 10-20 seconds) on video, here's the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbe7GDgjzg4&feature=youtu.be

Pictures they didn't have a problem with it was video (its against the venue policy) I took well over 100 pictures have to get the best ones and I'll post them tonight or tomorrow

You were obviously in a place where they weren't enforcing it as much then b/c near where I was, if they as much as saw someone lift the camera up, they went over to them and told them to put it down. 

[wkiml]

I had one of the guards ask me to stop shooting video (even though I wasn't since I was using a high ISO so my cameras takes a few seconds to focus) I showed her how the camera worked and she was content pretty much left me alone the rest of the night

[cramx3]

I was initially in section 103 and i was told not to use my camera after being caught. Towards the end of the show I moved to the back where no one was to get the video. A few people commented on the video saying they were glad someone got a decent video. I usually only take a couple clips for my personal collection, but i figured if i got a whole song, I could share it since i didn't think anyone else would get one. I know i go to YouTube after concerts to see parts of it and different angles.

[DT2003]

Again, in all my years of going to shows, not once have I heard that the band didn't want to be photographed.  With or without MP being there or not.  If that is the case, I'd like to know for sure rather than some made up policy from the venue.

I have been to 25 DT concerts...

In the 22 I went to prior to MP's departure, pictures were allowed at every one of them with the exception of the two shows that were being professionally recorded (Score & LSFNY)

In the 3 I have been to since then, pictures were not allowed and in all three cases the venue said their policy is to allow pictures but the band didn't allow it.  And at 2 of those 3 venues I had seen DT there previously and pictures were allowed.

[As I Am]

I hated how the security was very strict with pictures.  I moved to the back and was able to get all of Metropolis (minus the first 10-20 seconds) on video, here's the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbe7GDgjzg4&feature=youtu.be

Pictures they didn't have a problem with it was video (its against the venue policy) I took well over 100 pictures have to get the best ones and I'll post them tonight or tomorrow

You were obviously in a place where they weren't enforcing it as much then b/c near where I was, if they as much as saw someone lift the camera up, they went over to them and told them to put it down.

So then I guess it's DT who's against pictures from only certain angles and sections

[Major Thirteenth]

I was initially in section 103 and i was told not to use my camera after being caught. Towards the end of the show I moved to the back where no one was to get the video. A few people commented on the video saying they were glad someone got a decent video. I usually only take a couple clips for my personal collection, but i figured if i got a whole song, I could share it since i didn't think anyone else would get one. I know i go to YouTube after concerts to see parts of it and different angles.

This is what I mean. The venue says no video, the band says no video, and you just violate the band's wishes, shoot your video, and plan to post it to social media. Why would you do that?

[ResultsMayVary]

Again, in all my years of going to shows, not once have I heard that the band didn't want to be photographed.  With or without MP being there or not.  If that is the case, I'd like to know for sure rather than some made up policy from the venue.

I have been to 25 DT concerts...

In the 22 I went to prior to MP's departure, pictures were allowed at every one of them with the exception of the two shows that were being professionally recorded (Score & LSFNY)

In the 3 I have been to since then, pictures were not allowed and in all three cases the venue said their policy is to allow pictures but the band didn't allow it.  And at 2 of those 3 venues I had seen DT there previously and pictures were allowed.

That's interesting considering that there were pictures allowed at other shows on this tour and the first NA leg of the ADTOE tour. Its certainly not a consistent situation. I've seen three shows at Chicago (2011), Columbus (2012), and Cleveland (2012) where pictures were allowed. In Chicago, they didn't want flash photography or videos, but at the other two concerts, they could have cared less.

[wasteland]

Over here in Europe if any guideline came from the band, it was completely ignored by the venue's staffs 

[ResultsMayVary]

Over here in Europe if any guideline came from the band, it was completely ignored by the venue's staffs 

Exactly. When I saw them in Columbus earlier this tour, I was standing next to a 'VIP' section at the venue where a staff member for the venue was standing at the entrance of the entire night. When the Projekct was playing, I had asked him in addition to another staff member walking around about their photo/video policy for the night. I was told to "knock myself out." I was told something very similar two days later at the Cleveland show.

[cramx3]

I was initially in section 103 and i was told not to use my camera after being caught. Towards the end of the show I moved to the back where no one was to get the video. A few people commented on the video saying they were glad someone got a decent video. I usually only take a couple clips for my personal collection, but i figured if i got a whole song, I could share it since i didn't think anyone else would get one. I know i go to YouTube after concerts to see parts of it and different angles.

This is what I mean. The venue says no video, the band says no video, and you just violate the band's wishes, shoot your video, and plan to post it to social media. Why would you do that?

Because its a no harm no foul IMO. I'm not sure why the band is against it as there are millions of videos on YouTube. There are a couple thank yous on the video comments because people like myself like to see a part of the show they went to. If DT are worried that a crappy video will take away from buyers of their future DVD, then that is some extreme paranoia . If DT really has a problem, id have no problem removing the video, but i don't believe they do have a problem with it.

[DebraKadabra]

I'd MUCH rather put up with peeps taking pics/shooting video than having peeps treat the concert as their little social hour (talking over the music all night long).

[cramx3]

I'd MUCH rather put up with peeps taking pics/shooting video than having peeps treat the concert as their little social hour (talking over the music all night long).

I don't think I've expereiced that. Usually the music is too loud I can't hear people talking, but who pays to go to a concert and just talk during the show?

[Major Thirteenth]

Because its a no harm no foul IMO. I'm not sure why the band is against it as there are millions of videos on YouTube. There are a couple thank yous on the video comments because people like myself like to see a part of the show they went to. If DT are worried that a crappy video will take away from buyers of their future DVD, then that is some extreme paranoia . If DT really has a problem, id have no problem removing the video, but i don't believe they do have a problem with it.

"Everybody does it". I got it. Very well, carry on. Post your, as you probably accurately describe it, "crappy video", to social media in violation of the band's wishes. By the way, picture this: You walk up to James after the show and the following dialogue ensues:

You: "Hi James, great show! Really enjoyed it. I know the rules say no video, but I got a complete video of "Breaking All Illusions". Do you mind if I post it to Youtube"?
James: Fill in what you think he would say.

If you are dense enough to think that the answer would be: "Sure no problem", then I have nothing further to add.

[SeRoX]

I think all the bands are aware of that it is so hard to prevent people shot the clips from the shows. I can't imagine if bands or even DT have issues about that.

[DebraKadabra]

I'd MUCH rather put up with peeps taking pics/shooting video than having peeps treat the concert as their little social hour (talking over the music all night long).

I don't think I've expereiced that. Usually the music is too loud I can't hear people talking, but who pays to go to a concert and just talk during the show?

It happens a LOT here in Austin - didn't notice it too much at all of the DT shows or Opeth, but yeah... these peeps like to congregate and socialize all while peeps like me are trying to enjoy the show.

[cramx3]

Because its a no harm no foul IMO. I'm not sure why the band is against it as there are millions of videos on YouTube. There are a couple thank yous on the video comments because people like myself like to see a part of the show they went to. If DT are worried that a crappy video will take away from buyers of their future DVD, then that is some extreme paranoia . If DT really has a problem, id have no problem removing the video, but i don't believe they do have a problem with it.

"Everybody does it". I got it. Very well, carry on. Post your, as you probably accurately describe it, "crappy video", to social media in violation of the band's wishes. By the way, picture this: You walk up to James after the show and the following dialogue ensues:

You: "Hi James, great show! Really enjoyed it. I know the rules say no video, but I got a complete video of "Breaking All Illusions". Do you mind if I post it to Youtube"?
James: Fill in what you think he would say.

If you are dense enough to think that the answer would be: "Sure no problem", then I have nothing further to add.

Might as well end the discussion, I most certainly think he wouldn't mind. Unless it was a concert they were filming or perhaps a poor performance. Otherwise, yes I don't think he would have a problem.

[wkiml]

https://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/wkiml/

rather than posting individual pics

But I will add this one   Are you looking at me ?