Revolver nomination

angelillo · February 17, 2012, 01:52:55 AM

I did a quick look for "revolver" and didn't find anything so I am assuming there is nothing about this...

DT was nominated for a Revolver God Award in the Category "Comeback of the Year"

https://www.ocregister.com/articles/gods-340658-golden-best.html

min 27: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3puEbCV2U94&list=UUwQ3ecQFkJUkCpGlZ17_OOA&index=1&feature=plcp

Now... I don't know exactly how desirable and ranked is the Revolver Gold Award... but being a both MP-era and non-MP era lover, I feel a bit weird about that nomination. Don't take me wrong it is good that DT gets nominated and wins stuff... and I also think that ADTOE is a bit of an improvement from some previous albums... but I may be wrong but saying "Comeback" implies that the quality of the previous releases was way lower than a desirable level. I think that SC and BC&SL are not their best material but certainly very good IMHO of course. I am a Holy Trinity fan.

"Comeback" sounds like going from Load / Reload / St Anger to Death Magnetic (I am not a huge Tallica fan but I like their classic material and needed an example to explain my point).

Anyway... I just wanted to share my thoughts on this...

Zydar · February 17, 2012, 01:56:40 AM

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31007.0

I'm sorry, it's already been posted

angelillo · February 17, 2012, 01:59:23 AM

you see that happens when you only search in the DT section...

BlobVanDam · February 17, 2012, 02:15:18 AM

Quote from: Zydar on February 17, 2012, 01:56:40 AM
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31007.0

I'm sorry, it's already been posted

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30954.280

And discussed here too in DT side.

And angelillo, you are completely right. The nomination is laughable. You can't "comeback" unless you were gone in some form.

Gadough · February 17, 2012, 02:29:47 AM

Everyone knows Dream Theater has sucked since WDADU. This is their comeback album. What's so hard to understand about that?

BlobVanDam · February 17, 2012, 02:32:47 AM

Quote from: Gadough on February 17, 2012, 02:29:47 AM
Everyone knows Dream Theater has sucked since WDADU. This is their comeback album. What's so hard to understand about that?

GADOUGH.

WADOUGH.

WDADOUGH.

WDADUGH.

WDADUH.

WDADU.

It makes perfect sense, Gadough. Or should I say CHARLIE? Oh the pieces of the puzzle are all coming together now.......

Gadough · February 17, 2012, 02:37:45 AM

the aliens did it man

open your eyes

lonestar · February 17, 2012, 08:27:39 AM

Oh you guys.

reneranucci · February 17, 2012, 08:38:11 AM

Quote from: Gadough on February 17, 2012, 02:37:45 AM
the aliens did it man

open your eyes

hefdaddy42 · February 17, 2012, 08:44:14 AM

I kind of take it mean coming back from the loss of MP.

BlobVanDam · February 17, 2012, 08:48:00 AM

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 17, 2012, 08:44:14 AM
I kind of take it mean coming back from the loss of MP.

I could understand that if it was the loss of the main songwriter, or the singer, but a drummer? How many bands need to come back from losing a drummer?*

*unless a drummer losing an arm counts?....... tardface

Gadough · February 17, 2012, 11:24:16 AM

Quote from: reneranucci on February 17, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Quote from: Gadough on February 17, 2012, 02:37:45 AM
the aliens did it man

open your eyes

lol'd

Slain · February 17, 2012, 11:42:15 AM

Quote from: Gadough on February 17, 2012, 02:29:47 AM
Everyone knows Dream Theater has sucked since WDADU. This is their comeback album. What's so hard to understand about that?

Personally, I agree with Hef. Mike was the frontman for the band, and seemed to control almost everything while he was in DT. A lot of people who were on the outside looking in probably thought that it was a "comeback" album because they weren't sure how everything would turn out without Mike.

DarkLord_Lalinc · February 17, 2012, 03:12:25 PM

I'd just differ in that I think that in exterior circles (people who know of DT's existence but don's listen to their music) Petrucci is the more acknowledged guy. It's also more natural, for he is the guitarrist.

SnakeEyes · February 17, 2012, 08:22:18 PM

I think it is their comeback album in the sense that they actually started writing good SONGS again rather than just throw a bunch of stupid lyrics together and shred over a bunch of metal riffs. Their songs, in my opinion, were really starting to stink for a while. Black Clouds was a step in the right direction, but still really stale. This album is just fantastic.

Jaq · February 19, 2012, 11:14:11 AM

How the hell do you comeback when your previous album was your highest charting one ever?

Good god Revolver.

skydivingninja · February 19, 2012, 11:38:53 AM

Hef hit it spot-on. Its not that the last four albums have been utter crap (only half!), especially since that's subjective anyways and didn't get the entire fanbase in a tizzy the way albums like Load and ReLoad did for Metallica, or that they took a hiatus, its that they lost their spokesman who made it seem like he was responsible for all this stuff. If there was any mainstream attention thrown at the band, MP was the name they mentioned. MP did all the interviews. MP was the one topping all those drummer lists while the other members were just kinda forgotten about (MusicRadar doesn't count

). So until now, MP was always seen as this massively important guy, and ADTOE proved that they could definitely do it without him. So yeah, in a sense, ADTOE is a comeback album from losing Mike, and it was a test they passed with flying colors.

KevShmev · February 19, 2012, 01:47:38 PM

Quote from: Jaq on February 19, 2012, 11:14:11 AM
How the hell do you comeback when your previous album was your highest charting one ever?

Because where your album goes on the charts really is zero indication of greatness. The strength of DT's back catalog is why their newer albums have done so well on the album charts week 1 of their releases.

Think of it this way: Metallica's Load went to number 1 on the Billboard album charts, but had they not release ReLoad and instead released a record so good that the great majority of the fanbase had said it was one of their best, comparable to Master of Puppets for example, it would have been called their comeback album. The fact that it would have followed Load, a number 1 album, would have meant nothing.

theseoafs · February 19, 2012, 01:49:45 PM

Although I agree with those here who have asserted that ADTOE is a glorious return to form, this is far from what the people who organized these awards meant. What they're coming back from, as far as these people are concerned, is Mike's departure.

orcus116 · February 19, 2012, 02:56:01 PM

You know that for a fact?

skydivingninja · February 19, 2012, 03:04:25 PM

Considering DT don't really have many albums that pissed off EVERYBODY the way albums like Load, Turbo, etc. did for their fanbases, I think its a logical conclusion.

orcus116 · February 19, 2012, 03:22:31 PM

Well it's not like Mike was the guy writing all or most of the music. Yeah arranging is one thing but JP and JR are more rham capable of filling that role. Then again I've always found the doom and gloom reactions right after it happened a bit silly.

BlobVanDam · February 19, 2012, 07:13:58 PM

Quote from: KevShmev on February 19, 2012, 01:47:38 PM
Quote from: Jaq on February 19, 2012, 11:14:11 AM
How the hell do you comeback when your previous album was your highest charting one ever?

Because where your album goes on the charts really is zero indication of greatness. The strength of DT's back catalog is why their newer albums have done so well on the album charts week 1 of their releases.

But albums do well based on recent history, not on distant memories.
BCASL didn't have DT's highest first week sales ever because a bunch of people were getting into IaW or Awake. BCASL did well because of the success of SC, and SC did well because of the success of Octavarium etc. They've been steadily rising because of their new music. You don't continue a steady upward trend if you're continuing to output crap compared to your earlier music.
You can't comeback from a steady increase in popularity and success. And you can't comeback from your highest charting album. Sales alone don't indicate quality, but for a band like DT that relies a lot more on building a steady fanbase than marketing and singles, it actually says a lot about their recent strength.

Gadough · February 19, 2012, 09:26:03 PM

Quote from: skydivingninja on February 19, 2012, 11:38:53 AMand it was a test they passed with flying colors.

Goddammit Matt

skydivingninja · February 19, 2012, 09:34:53 PM

Quote from: orcus116 on February 19, 2012, 03:22:31 PM
Well it's not like Mike was the guy writing all or most of the music. Yeah arranging is one thing but JP and JR are more rham capable of filling that role. Then again I've always found the doom and gloom reactions right after it happened a bit silly.

That's absolutely true, he wasn't that big a factor in terms of the actual music. But as I said earlier (don't remember if it was this thread or the GMD one) MP was the guy everybody saw as the face of Dream Theater. He was the one doing all the interviews, all the fan stuff, making the setlists, writing the 12 step suite, etc. etc. Plus he was probably the most well-known member of DT due to his drumming, which until Gavin Harrison rolled around put him right behind Neil Peart in pretty much every music magazine article on the subject

. So really, whether the people at Revolver know how much he was involved in writing DT's music or not, they saw ADTOE as a comeback from losing arguably their most prolific member.

Pinga · February 20, 2012, 06:55:05 AM

It's obviously because ADTOE is worlds ahead of the previous 2 albums (and quite better than Octavarium, and a better than ToT).

theseoafs · February 20, 2012, 07:41:35 AM

SC and BCSL were not actually unsuccessful albums. They charted very highly and received reviews that are as good as prog metal bands can get. If you feel like people hated SC and BCSL, it's only because you're hanging around these forums too much; this forum tends to rank these albums lower than the general DT-listening populace.

For this reason, it is, in my opinion, extremely unlikely that the nominators were talking about the low quality of SC and BCSL, since they really weren't low quality albums.

skydivingninja · February 20, 2012, 09:50:07 AM

High charting albums =/= good quality. Load was number one on Billboard once and look at Metallica fan reaction to that one.

Also, it is difficult to say that BC&SL/SC/8VM/ToT were "unsuccessful" albums since DT fans aren't really too "divided" by much of anything honestly. Now this forum probably isn't the optimal unbiased sample of DT fans on the planet, but its probably the best we have, so to say that "fans have been dissatisfied with the last four albums with MP" seems, to me, a pretty reasonable statement.

I still agree with your final point, that its more about Mike than the actual music, but this forum probably isn't tooooo far off the mark in terms of what most DT fans think of their music.

BlobVanDam · February 20, 2012, 08:49:45 PM

This forum is a terrible indicator of the general DT fanbase. Only a very tiny and narrow cross section of people are the kind to join a forum and regularly feel the need to discuss everything. The majority of people don't do that.
If you want to see what the real fanbase thinks, go to a DT concert. There is no way you can go to a DT concert and believe that people don't like the last two albums as much as anything else. TDEN got the biggest positive reaction of any DT song in the shows I've seen, and ANTR went down damn well, and the crowd even loved the build up and joining in with the MP vocals.

Sometimes I think people lose perspective on how much wider the fanbase is than this one community.

On the Backs of Eagles · February 20, 2012, 11:50:11 PM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 20, 2012, 08:49:45 PM
This forum is a terrible indicator of the general DT fanbase. Only a very tiny and narrow cross section of people are the kind to join a forum and regularly feel the need to discuss everything. The majority of people don't do that.
If you want to see what the real fanbase thinks, go to a DT concert. There is no way you can go to a DT concert and believe that people don't like the last two albums as much as anything else. TDEN got the biggest positive reaction of any DT song in the shows I've seen, and ANTR went down damn well, and the crowd even loved the build up and joining in with the MP vocals.

Sometimes I think people lose perspective on how much wider the fanbase is than this one community.

I couldn't agree with Blob any more. Being a great forum, it is not an indicator of the taste of the general DT fanbase at all. TDEN is a perfect example. On the last tour, I really noticed that Endless Sacrifice went across far better than any other song live, while getting a lot of hate here.
Sometimes it seems to me that people who do not officially name I&W and SFAM their favorite albums lose their credibility as posters here. If someone dares to say "I don't like Metropolis Pt.1 and Learning to Live that much", he will likely get an answer along the lines of "you crazy man..". Bashing SC and BC&SL almost seems like being sports here, at times it's really getting ridiculous. The general consensus in a forum will always influence people who post there and this is a VERY prog- oriented forum and in no way representative for the general DT fanbase.

Mladen · February 21, 2012, 01:41:12 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 20, 2012, 08:49:45 PMIf you want to see what the real fanbase thinks, go to a DT concert. There is no way you can go to a DT concert and believe that people don't like the last two albums as much as anything else. TDEN got the biggest positive reaction of any DT song in the shows I've seen, and ANTR went down damn well, and the crowd even loved the build up and joining in with the MP vocals.

This is only partially true, at least from my perspective. Yes, TDEN did get an incredible reaction. I for one went completely crazy and yelled out the verses along with everyone else in the audience, but for some reason, I didn't get that excited when I played it yesterday at home. Some of the songs will get you moving live, even though you aren't exactly in love with them. Even if they played You not me, I think it would get me moving, just because I'm excited to see such a band live.

But you know what, you can check out clips on youtube, and whenever James says "We're gonna go back to Systematic chaos with this one'', the crowd goes wild.

BlobVanDam · February 21, 2012, 01:48:31 AM

Quote from: Mladen on February 21, 2012, 01:41:12 AM
Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 20, 2012, 08:49:45 PMIf you want to see what the real fanbase thinks, go to a DT concert. There is no way you can go to a DT concert and believe that people don't like the last two albums as much as anything else. TDEN got the biggest positive reaction of any DT song in the shows I've seen, and ANTR went down damn well, and the crowd even loved the build up and joining in with the MP vocals.
This is only partially true, at least from my perspective. Yes, TDEN did get an incredible reaction. I for one went completely crazy and yelled out the verses along with everyone else in the audience, but for some reason, I didn't get that excited when I played it yesterday at home. Some of the songs will get you moving live, even though you aren't exactly in love with them. Even if they played You not me, I think it would get me moving, just because I'm excited to see such a band live.

I'm not so sure about that. The second they kicked into that intro riff, the crowd went nuts, and started jumping like crazy. It seemed much more than just getting into the live moment; it seemed like the audience was thrilled.
For comparison, the crowd was thoroughly dead when they kicked into PoW, so the live factor can only compensate for so much.

edit: I've also been to other live shows where bands have kicked off with new material, and even being the intro to the entire show, you could hear the crickets chirping, then once they kicked into an older track for the second song, the crowd went crazy. I think people are more forgiving of songs live, but there's a line.

angelillo · February 21, 2012, 03:43:09 AM

It is the combination live-metal. TDEN live is awesome and it is well documented that DT audiences react very well to metal (JP said something in this direction in some bonus DVD or something like that - Score I think), and yes, the live reaction to this song is amazing! I would love to see it in South America, I bet people will get crazy! (I am from SA living in UK for now btw)

To add to the outside DTF appreciation issue, the riff in TDEN was voted in some poll as a one the greatest riffs of the decade... (so it is not only a live thing maybe ?)

TDEN has grown in me, It is a pretty cool metal song

IMO the point raised here about TDEN being more appreciated outside DTF may be actually very true

This thread just turned into a discussion about TDEN appreciation

Mladen · February 21, 2012, 03:56:02 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 21, 2012, 01:48:31 AM
For comparison, the crowd was thoroughly dead when they kicked into PoW, so the live factor can only compensate for so much.

That's a shame, I'd really enjoy Prophets of war.

skydivingninja · February 21, 2012, 05:53:31 AM

I mean, I hate Systematic Chaos, but when when they went into Constant Motion, I had fun rocking with it. Mladen's point about the whole "live factor" is a very good one. And while yes, I agree that this forum isn't really the best indicator of the overall DT fan base, its one of the most consistent we have outside of the live setting where everyone's just fired up to see DT. Crowd response may also change by country. Hard to tell though, because unless you go to South America DT fans just seem dead at concerts after the initial cheers before and after a song.

News:

Revolver nomination