Still a HUGE DT fan but...............

[As I Am]

.........I have lost a lot of "excitement" in being a DT fanatic. It has everything to do with MP leaving I'm afraid. I'm not threading this to start any kind of war of words or anything, just stating fact as to how I feel and wonder if there are many out there that feel the same way.

For me, a HUGE portion of the DT live experience was 1) watching Portnoy play and engage the fans, 2) seeing multiple shows on a given leg and not knowing what songs to expect & 3) looking at the forums DAILY to see what "surprises" were in any given setlist. That's just not there any longer Yes, they change up a couple of songs every other night (rotating sets) but there's no "shock" value any longer. IMO, this along with their virtuoso musicianship, AND MP's connection to us fans is what made DT stand apart from the musical world. Obviously, we all knew this was going to happen, but LIVING it just takes something away from the band IMO.

Now, before people get all hot and bothered, let me say this. They are still a top notch live act, and ADTOE was an awesome album for sure! Plus, Mike Mangini IS an awesome drummer and seemingly a VERY NICE guy who is loving his opportunity in DT ..... I expected nothing less.

I never felt MP's departure would hurt their recording and future releases. My fear was and IS, the touring side of the band!

As much as I like Mangini and think that DT has bright future with him behind the kit, I just think the expectation level is gone for good

[snapple]

They, as a band, have more energy live now that MP is gone.

[glaurung]

They, as a band, have more energy live now that MP is gone.

Yep. Out of the three times I've seen DT I had a lot more fun at the show after his departure than I did at the shows with him still there. The whole band seemed to be having a lot more fun.

[theseoafs]

It's true that MP devoted much more time and scrutiny to constructing these setlists than the vast majority of bands out there. It was cool while it lasted but the fact is they were going above and beyond, and having such an extensive back catalog to be ready to play at any moment must have been stressful. You can't really blame them for taking a step back and going with the status quo on this one.

Meanwhile, the band is putting on a stronger, more energetic, and more enthusiastic live show than they have in years. Get hung up on the setlists if you want, but if the list of songs is ruining DT's live experience for you, then you're missing out.

[MondayMorningLunatic]

I agree that being a DT fan is little less fun nowadays... but only because I can't watch a damn YouTube video without 400 inane arguments about Portnoy vs. Mangini. Portnoy's departure has been so insanely blown out of proportion. Dream Theater still sounds like Dream Theater. Unfortunately, you seem to find Portnoy's personality more "exciting" than Dream Theater's music.

[JimmyJava]

It's true that MP devoted much more time and scrutiny to constructing these setlists than the vast majority of bands out there. It was cool while it lasted but the fact is they were going above and beyond, and having such an extensive back catalog to be ready to play at any moment must have been stressful. You can't really blame them for taking a step back and going with the status quo on this one.

Meanwhile, the band is putting on a stronger, more energetic, and more enthusiastic live show than they have in years. Get hung up on the setlists if you want, but if the list of songs is ruining DT's live experience for you, then you're missing out.

This. Plus, if you really wanted to be surprised over an upcoming DT show: don't log on here and view the setlist. Simple as that.

[MarkFitDT]

.........I have lost a lot of "excitement" in being a DT fanatic. It has everything to do with MP leaving I'm afraid. I'm not threading this to start any kind of war of words or anything, just stating fact as to how I feel and wonder if there are many out there that feel the same way.

For me, a HUGE portion of the DT live experience was 1) watching Portnoy play and engage the fans, 2) seeing multiple shows on a given leg and not knowing what songs to expect & 3) looking at the forums DAILY to see what "surprises" were in any given setlist. That's just not there any longer Yes, they change up a couple of songs every other night (rotating sets) but there's no "shock" value any longer. IMO, this along with their virtuoso musicianship, AND MP's connection to us fans is what made DT stand apart from the musical world. Obviously, we all knew this was going to happen, but LIVING it just takes something away from the band IMO.

Now, before people get all hot and bothered, let me say this. They are still a top notch live act, and ADTOE was an awesome album for sure! Plus, Mike Mangini IS an awesome drummer and seemingly a VERY NICE guy who is loving his opportunity in DT ..... I expected nothing less.

I never felt MP's departure would hurt their recording and future releases. My fear was and IS, the touring side of the band!

As much as I like Mangini and think that DT has bright future with him behind the kit, I just think the expectation level is gone for good

Ive seen DT twice with Mangini and I couldnt disagree more with you. They seem totally re-energised.

I loved watching Mangini play plus you have the bonus of spit not flying everywhere.

[vtgrad]

I've seen DT 5-times since 04...

04: DC @ the 9:30 Club
06: Score
07: Jones Beach
09: Asheville NC
10: Columbus OH

basically once every tour cycle since Train of Thought (with the exception of the current touring cycle... and I hope to get the chance with another NA leg ).

BUT... and please keep in mind that I'm basing this opinion on the current tour's U-Tube clips that I've seen... this line-up looks like 5 teen-age musicians having fun in someone's garage.  They seem to play off of each other in a manner that doesn't look forced or contrived for the benefit of the crowd.   I'd be willing to bet that the level of excitement that we see in the concert footage is exactly the same as what we would see if invited to the sound-check.  I think they're having a blast.

I love MP; always have and always will.  He is a bombastic personality and he brings that to the stage.  BUT, I would rather JP, JM, JR, and JlB move on with MM and enjoy the process while giving us this incredible music... instead of holding back there own opinions and desires to appease MP and his direction.

I'm truly sorry that you've lost the excitement you once had... that is exactly how I felt after reading the news that MP decided to leave.  But the new music has propelled my excitement level far beyond what it previously was regarding new music from my favorite band.   

[SeRoX]

I understand you.

For me, If LaBrie or Petrucci had left the band I would've lost a lot of excitement. Not to talk big words but I would even have no desire to listen anymore. But in this case, from my view MP is nothing but a good drummer. Mangini replaced him and I love how things are going now.

[John94]

I love Mangini because not only is he a beast, the other guys seem to kick it up a notch compared to 09 when I saw them last.

One huge note for me is James. James is performing a whole lot better recently and it has been well documented via Lifting Shadows etc. that MP specifically told James to shape up or ship out. I don't think James would ever admit to feeling under pressure whilst MP was there but sometimes he may've been which showed in performances.

Now, he is on fire, having fun, hitting some real crazy parts and it's possibly down to the confidence in him by the rest of the band and the reduced pressure. IIRC, JP said not too long ago "it's great to have a singer who we trust to do well."

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

After all that drama went down, I sat down to think and came to the conclusion that MP's leadership was cornering DT into something that I may not have liked very much. His vocals become more and more prominent, the production itself of the albums, the entire relationship things with the band and I really grew tired of reading his interviews (The things *I* did for this band...Things *I* forsee...) And yeah, I have no doubt whatsoever that he did lots of wonderful things for the band, but once he crossed the threshold things became stale and dry in Dream Theater. Mike Mangini joining the band was one of the best things that could have happened to this band. Not only the music from A Dramatic Turn of Events sounds inspired and eagerful, it seems as if the whole Dream Theater project gained a new meaning.

[KevShmev]

After all that drama went down, I sat down to think and came to the conclusion that MP's leadership was cornering DT into something that I may not have liked very much. His vocals become more and more prominent, the production itself of the albums, the entire relationship things with the band and I really grew tired of reading his interviews (The things *I* did for this band...Things *I* forsee...) And yeah, I have no doubt whatsoever that he did lots of wonderful things for the band, but once he crossed the threshold things became stale and dry in Dream Theater. Mike Mangini joining the band was one of the best things that could have happened to this band. Not only the music from A Dramatic Turn of Events sounds inspired and eagerful, it seems as if the whole Dream Theater project gained a new meaning.

Could not agree more.

Right or wrong, the band was turning into the Portnoy show.  Consider this: had that grammy appearance taken place when Portnoy was still in the band, he probably would have dominated the red carpet interview chatter as he always did, while the other four would have stood there with maybe one or two of them getting in a brief comment.  They truly seem like a real band again.

And ultimately, him leaving got them out of the rut they were seemingly in (by Portnoy's own admission).  Sad for him that that is was it took, but there it is nonetheless.

[Jaq]

Having seen the band three times-twice with MP, once with MM-I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the band collectively had more energy, was having more fun, and played tighter with MM than MP. And MP was frankly, by the end, obnoxious in his on stage performances. ("Look at me, I'm standing up and hitting the crash cymbals!"-it was almost as if his parts were designed for how he'd look playing live) Seeing the band with MP, all too often it became the MP and 3 Other Guys, Guest Starring The Singer Who Vanishes During The Instrumental Breaks Show. Seeing them with MM, it was a band having the time of their lives.

You can prefer MP, no problem, but I can tell you they were better live, for me, with MM.

[chrisbDTM]

i definitely agree about them being more exciting now. Ive seen DT 5 times and although each time was awesome, this recent US tour was absolutely the best

[Flacracker]

This is MM first tour and he doesnt know a lot of the songs yet. I have seen people that said on JR's first tour they didn't change the setlist much either. It may return. Also, this MM tour has been the best out of what I have seen.

[Orbert]

Pretty much everyone who has responded so far seems to have missed the point of the original post.

For me, a HUGE portion of the DT live experience was 1) watching Portnoy play and engage the fans

Gone.

2) seeing multiple shows on a given leg and not knowing what songs to expect

Gone.

3) looking at the forums DAILY to see what "surprises" were in any given setlist. That's just not there any longer

Gone.

Everyone has different things that they like about different bands.  People are talking about how re-energized the guys seem these days, how Portnoy seemed to be eclipsing the rest of the band toward the end there, etc.  All true.

But none of that is relevant to the points in the OP.  I happen to agree with As I Am.  Mike did bring a lot to the performing side of DT which is gone now.  It helps a little that there are other, new things to be excited about, but hey, if you miss what Mike brought to the show, you miss it.  And it's not just about who the better drummer is, or any of the more negative aspects of Mike's personality which are also gone from the picture.

[Gadough]

It's true that MP devoted much more time and scrutiny to constructing these setlists than the vast majority of bands out there. It was cool while it lasted but the fact is they were going above and beyond, and having such an extensive back catalog to be ready to play at any moment must have been stressful. You can't really blame them for taking a step back and going with the status quo on this one.

Meanwhile, the band is putting on a stronger, more energetic, and more enthusiastic live show than they have in years. Get hung up on the setlists if you want, but if the list of songs is ruining DT's live experience for you, then you're missing out.

You're a good poster, my dude. Just wanted to let you know that. Every post you write makes a ton of sense.

Except the ones in the math thread, those are incomprehensible.

[TAC]

For me, a HUGE portion of the DT live experience was 1) watching Portnoy play and engage the fans, 2) seeing multiple shows on a given leg and not knowing what songs to expect & 3) looking at the forums DAILY to see what "surprises" were in any given setlist. That's just not there any longer Yes, they change up a couple of songs every other night (rotating sets) but there's no "shock" value any longer. IMO, this along with their virtuoso musicianship, AND MP's connection to us fans is what made DT stand apart from the musical world.

I completely agree with this in the OP. Dream Theater is my favorite band for a multitude of reasons, but the number one was watching MP play. I was concerned how I would react going forward. Knowing JP's affinity for Octavarium, I was concerned that their new album might be a little soft, but frankly, they blew me away with ADTOE and they were incredible live. Throw in that Mike Mangini is so damn likeable.

Ironically, I'm not the least bit interested in anything MP has done since he left the band.

[theseoafs]

It's true that MP devoted much more time and scrutiny to constructing these setlists than the vast majority of bands out there. It was cool while it lasted but the fact is they were going above and beyond, and having such an extensive back catalog to be ready to play at any moment must have been stressful. You can't really blame them for taking a step back and going with the status quo on this one.

Meanwhile, the band is putting on a stronger, more energetic, and more enthusiastic live show than they have in years. Get hung up on the setlists if you want, but if the list of songs is ruining DT's live experience for you, then you're missing out.

You're a good poster, my dude. Just wanted to let you know that. Every post you write makes a ton of sense.

Except the ones in the math thread, those are incomprehensible.

[Lowdz]

Changing setlists make no difference to me as I'm very unlikely to see more than one show per leg. And I would be very pissed off to go see a show and the next night was a better setlist than the one I got. I had a great time last week in Manchester and the only thing that could have made it better would have been a different song than TDEN. Hate the song. The only DT track that I dislike more is Rawdog.
The only time I did see more than one show on a leg, with MP in the band, the setlist was identical iirc (SC tour- Manchester and Blackburn- 20 miles apart, ripe for a setlist change).

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Also, seriously. People missing the surprises in the setlists? Chaos in Motion and Black Clouds setlists were pretty much static setlists with very few changes over here and over there.

[mrjazzguitar]

I think that when it comes to the band having more energy live after Portnoy leaving, I think its mostly that James, Jordan, and especially Myung are more involved. Petrucci and Portnoy were always clearly the leaders of the band, and Petrucci's live energy never was an issue.
Of the four times I've seen DT live, the last show (NY Beacon w/ Mangini) was the best, but I'm not sure it has anything to do w/ Portnoy not being there.

[gabeh1018]

I thought with any new member joining the band, the following tour the setlists really didnt change much. When Sherinian and Rudess first joined the tour following was pretty much the same each night. you cant except the man to learn 100 difficult songs in  afew months

[ResultsMayVary]

They, as a band, have more energy live now that MP is gone.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[Orbert]

I thought with any new member joining the band, the following tour the setlists really didnt change much. When Sherinian and Rudess first joined the tour following was pretty much the same each night. you cant except the man to learn 100 difficult songs in  afew months

That's a good point.  Even for someone of Mangini's calibre, learning a couple hours of Dream Theater is quite a task.  Learning enough tunes to alternate setlists every night would be insane.

[DeanTheater]

I agree with most about the recent live energy, but the real positive point for me was how it transcended in the new album.  I have said this before, but ADTOE is probably DT best effort in the last 10 yrs.  Dont get me wrong, I am a total fanboy and do love most of their catalog, but there was alot of passion and colorful detail intertwined in ADTOE, that may have lacked in previous efforts. 

I thought the adjustment to MP leaving would take alot longer than it has when I first heard the news.  But, MM solidified a new path for DT that I see, as very  invigorating and refreshing.

[Dublagent66]

I was upset that MP left and all the drama that ensued. I wasn't too sure about the new album at first but it has really shaped up to be great work.  I'm beginning to think that BAI is DT's best song of all time.  Mangini is awesome and has great chemistry with the ALL the guys.  Just saw them live back on Dec 4th and the show was awesome.  This is a new beginning for the band and I'm excited again!

[Millais]

I agree with a lot of the things that are being said in this thread. Personally I have to admit that I also do miss the rotating setlists but I realise that sometimes it's just hard to keep that up. However, I really am enjoying the youtube clips of all the band enjoying themselves now, noticeably more than I've seen in the past. 

[El Barto]

I'm with the OP.  Mangini's a better drummer, and the new album is better than their last few with MP, but their live shows have taken a real hit.  They played well,  and MM does seem to have energized the rest of them a bit, but there's no spontaneity.  I saw them three nights on this last tour, and with the exception of two songs on the middle night, the shows were identical. 

Aside from the static setlists, MP's antics added a fair amount to the shows, as well, which is now lost.  While he's certainly a better drummer, MM is not as interesting to watch, IMO. 

And let's not forget the occasional cover.  Something else that seems to have been lost. 

On past tours, I had a real interest in checking out multiple shows, because I knew they'd each be different affairs.  Now, I'll see a Dallas show, but probably wouldn't bother driving to Houston/Austin.

[jcmistat]

I agree with your points on Mike. Things will never be the same and I'll always miss him. My only time seeing DT live was this tour and I expected good but it turned out amazing. Its feels very good that to me DT never lost a step but in fact improved with all the drama.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm with the OP.  Mangini's a better drummer, and the new album is better than their last few with MP, but their live shows have taken a real hit.  They played well,  and MM does seem to have energized the rest of them a bit, but there's no spontaneity.  I saw them three nights on this last tour, and with the exception of two songs on the middle night, the shows were identical. 

Aside from the static setlists, MP's antics added a fair amount to the shows, as well, which is now lost.  While he's certainly a better drummer, MM is not as interesting to watch, IMO. 

And let's not forget the occasional cover.  Something else that seems to have been lost. 

This. I think DT's live show has both gained and lost certain elements.
MM is a great drummer to watch, and he's definitely letting loose with DT more now, but MP was such a highlight live. But the tradeoff has been that MM is a bit of a better drummer, so the songs retain the vibe of the studio tracks where occasionally they were lost (mostly the ballads), and the rest of the band has slightly stepped up their game (although I'd also argue they've been stepping up their game a bit for a few tours now, so it's not MP's fault at all there).
I'm not overly concerned about the rotating setlists from my own POV, because as DT have pointed out, I'm part of that majority who only goes to one show, but some of the spontaneity that made collecting DT's live bootlegs great is gone.

Of course, this is still their first world tour with MM, so I'm not going to be harsh on him. He's done a fantastic job for his first tour, and he's already built up quite a repertoire of DT material in this relatively short time. Who knows what they'll do in future?

I will say that in the studio, I definitely miss MP's input though. ADTOE is missing a certain spark that previous DT albums had. I'm hoping that with MM as a fully integrated member now, that spark will come back with DT12 though.

[theseoafs]

I will say that in the studio, I definitely miss MP's input though. ADTOE is missing a certain spark that previous DT albums had. I'm hoping that with MM as a fully integrated member now, that spark will come back with DT12 though.

Now this... This, I couldn't disagree more with. I'm going to keep trying, but I just don't think it's possible to disagree with this any more than I do now.

[BlobVanDam]

I will say that in the studio, I definitely miss MP's input though. ADTOE is missing a certain spark that previous DT albums had. I'm hoping that with MM as a fully integrated member now, that spark will come back with DT12 though.

Now this... This, I couldn't disagree more with. I'm going to keep trying, but I just don't think it's possible to disagree with this any more than I do now.

ummm.... good for you? Try not to waste too much of your precious time actively trying to disagree with someone.

[?]

Of course it'd be interesting to see them play very different and unique setlists but I don't think the guys would be that keen on learning a huge amount of songs out of which some would be played only a handful of times. Besides, this is the first world tour with Mangini and it's also easier for him to start this way. I also don't think that many fans go to see multiple shows on the same tour (for example in Finland DT play only one show per tour) and some could say: "Why didn't we get (insert song name here) instead of (insert song name here)?"

ADTOE has a certain spark that previous DT albums were missing.

Fixed for me.

[Dark Castle]

Of course it'd be interesting to see them play very different and unique setlists but I don't think the guys would be that keen on learning a huge amount of songs out of which some would be played only a handful of times. Besides, this is the first world tour with Mangini and it's also easier for him to start this way. I also don't think that many fans go to see multiple shows on the same tour (for example in Finland DT play only one show per tour) and some could say: "Why didn't we get (insert song name here) instead of (insert song name here)?"

ADTOE has a certain spark that previous DT albums were missing.

Fixed for me.

This perfectly explains my opinion on the matter.  As well as what I think of the album.