*OFFICIAL* A Dramatic Turn Of Events discussion thread -- **SPOILER ALERT!!!**

[Jamesman42]

ADTOE was a statement album that did not disappoint (besides BMUBMD, what is that song). 3 songs make my top 11 songs, and the album is just DT doing what they do best, writing on the lighter side of prog metal. I think this is a top 5 or 6 album, though it has stiff competition with IaW, Awake, SDOIT, TOT, and 8VM.

On the Backs of Angels is still my favorite from the album. 

[Tyrannosaurus Chicken]

Agreed on both points, and overall, this is a Top 3 DT album for me.

For me as well.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

ADTOE has only gotten stronger and stronger to me over the years, I flip flop on what my favourite of the Mangini era is, but right now I think this is the one.

All of the big songs are just fantastic, especially Breaking All Illusions which is a top 5 DT song ever for me. Backs of Angels is an awesome single and I've always had a soft spot for This is the Life. I think this is one of Jordan's strongest albums.

I think they felt they had a lot to prove back when MP originally left the band and really went for it with the writing. I think they pulled it off and for me this album is at least stronger than the 2 that preceded it (and would Octavarium if not for the title track). It's interesting looking back on it now that MP has rejoined.

My only real criticism is I'm really not a fan of BMUBMD, and the overall mix of the album is missing some weight (especially the drums). I've gotten used to it but it did used to bother me more. A version of this album that sounds as good as View for example would be awesome.

Agreed. BMUBMD is just a head scratcher. I know what they were trying to do but I also don't. It doesn't fit the album at all. If you had another quality track in between OTBOA and LNF the album would be that much better from start to finish.

[Tyrannosaurus Chicken]

I'm probably in the minority, in that I actually don't mind the drum sound and production on this album. The drums are mixed more in the background, less up front and in your face. Something about that feels more organic and natural to me, and was a refreshing change of pace after BC&SL. It's also very similar to how Steve Vai mixes his albums, with the drums being the foundation - not blaring and up front.

As far as Build Me Up, Break Me Down, it's a rocking track, and I feel that it fits in just fine with the rest of the album.

[jingle.boy]

The highs are very high; but the lows are pretty low.  BMUBMD is a bottom 10 all-time DT song; I don't have a lot of good things to say about LNF; there's a couple of middle of the road songs in there (OTBOA and TITL).  But the rest is really good, and BAI is a Top 10 DT song.

[Dedalus]

Most of DT's "recent" attempts to "sound a little less like DT" are generally poorly received by the public.

In the Octavarium cycle, I remember that many people didn't like IWBY (and it's worth mentioning that it wasn't even the first attempt to sound like U2). The same happened with PoW in SC, BMUBMD in ADToE, Room 137 in DoT (and we don't even need to discuss TA again).

Of course, it's possible to discuss whether or not the attempts are well executed and successful. But there is a certain consistency of poor reception.
It's no wonder that they often appeal to the conservative aspect of doing more of the same.

[Tyrannosaurus Chicken]

Most of DT's "recent" attempts to "sound a little less like DT" are generally poorly received by the public.

In the Octavarium cycle, I remember that many people didn't like IWBY (and it's worth mentioning that it wasn't even the first attempt to sound like U2). The same happened with PoW in SC, BMUBMD in ADToE, Room 137 in DoT (and we don't even need to discuss TA again).

Of course, it's possible to discuss whether or not the attempts are well executed and successful. But there is a certain consistency of poor reception.
It's no wonder that they often appeal to the conservative aspect of doing more of the same.

I remember when Octavarium came out, they got criticized for not only trying to sound like U2, but also Muse. For songs where they "sound like another band", I've wondered if it was coincidence, or if they intentionally went into like "Okay guys, let's try to write a song that sounds like _________". I don't know why; I just have a hard time seeing them intentionally trying to sound like someone else.

Hell, I remember even when Scenes From a Memory came out, some people criticized Home for "trying to sound like Tool".

[three__days]

wait who's room 137 supposed to sound like?

[Jamesman42]

The Great Debate also had the Tool comparisons. Octavarium (the song) has the Pink Floyd intro. 

[Tyrannosaurus Chicken]

wait who's room 137 supposed to sound like?

I fucking love that song. The super psychedelic trippy Beatles part. You know the one I mean 

[Wim Kruithof]

The highs are very high; but the lows are pretty low.  BMUBMD is a bottom 10 all-time DT song; I don't have a lot of good things to say about LNF;

I completely agree with you here. Build Me Up is an instant-skip for me and - despite some of us seem te love Lost Not Forgotten, like TAC IIRC - it just does not move my soul at all.

[emtee]

Simply put, my 2nd biggest one-eighty turnaround in my life. As of now this is my #3 and near perfection.

[Tyrannosaurus Chicken]

The Great Debate also had the Tool comparisons. Octavarium (the song) has the Pink Floyd intro.

The intro to Octavarium is strikingly similar to the intro to Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

[Jamesman42]

The intro to Octavarium is strikingly similar to the intro to Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

Yes, that was what I was referencing

[Tyrannosaurus Chicken]

Simply put, my 2nd biggest one-eighty turnaround in my life. As of now this is my #3 and near perfection.

It's my third favorite DT album, as well. It has aged like a fine wine.

[Max Kuehnau]

one of my three as well

[three__days]

I completely agree with you here. Build Me Up is an instant-skip for me and - despite some of us seem te love Lost Not Forgotten, like TAC IIRC - it just does not move my soul at all.

coming in to say that i actually quite vibe 'build me up' - i'm honestly way more positive on the "buttrock" dream theater songs than most fans.

(i suppose the canonical listing of DT buttrock songs is  'these walls', 'forsaken', 'wither', 'build me up, break me down' and 'paralyzed')

[Schurftkut]

but These Walls is the only song on octavarium i sometimes listen to.. 

[three__days]

but These Walls is the only song on octavarium i sometimes listen to.. 

it's a hell of a song!

[Dream Team]

coming in to say that i actually quite vibe 'build me up' - i'm honestly way more positive on the "buttrock" dream theater songs than most fans.

(i suppose the canonical listing of DT buttrock songs is  'these walls', 'forsaken', 'wither', 'build me up, break me down' and 'paralyzed')

FII is full of buttrock.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Anyone still listening to totally underrated songs like Beneath the Surface?

[TAC]

Anyone still listening to totally underrated songs like Beneath the Surface?

I listen to the whole thing often. I'll skip BMUBMD about half the time, but other than that, it gets the full run.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I listen to the whole thing often. I'll skip BMUBMD about half the time, but other than that, it gets the full run.

Same...BMUBMD is just one of those those things about which I ask myself "WHY YOU DO THIS?!"

[DoctorAction]

Anyone still listening to totally underrated songs like Beneath the Surface?

For sure! I tend to listen to two tracks from this one these days - Bridges In The Sky and Beneath The Surface. Absolutely wonderful track.

[Wim Kruithof]

Anyone still listening to totally underrated songs like Beneath the Surface?

To me Beneath the Surface is their best balled - or any best balled - ever made.

The acoustic combination with The Silent Man on Live at Luna Park is straight from heaven.

[Max Kuehnau]

All three ballads on Dramatic Turn are among my favourites, Chosen is as well. 

[emtee]

I almost druel thinking about how this amazing album would sound if Sneap and Meslin had the gig.

[Northern Lion]

I almost druel thinking about how this amazing album would sound if Sneap and Meslin had the gig.

Yeah, I agree.  I really love this album, but it is brought down a tad by how it sounds.  The guitar sound is what bugs me the most.  It just sounds rounded off and mushy.  It doesn't have that bite that a metal sound is supposed to have.

[Pettor]

Indeed! The mix is quite harsh, and at times, it feels overpowering — like it's about to blow but just barely holds back. I'm listening to This Is The Life right now, and something feels off when you turn the volume up a bit. I think it's the guitars as you said. I have the HD650s, and they always sound great with metal and rock music, but LNF is exhausting to listen to. Found my HDtracks lossless version and it has similar problems to me.

Thankfully, this album has so many great ballads. Still, a remix of this album and DT12 would be amazing — I would gladly pay to make that happen. D/T took Mangini's drums from "meh" to "OMG" for me, and I think a remix could do the same here. The guitar and drums are what really wear on my ears. Also, BAI should bring up the keyboards — there are so many cool layers, but even in the intro, they're buried in the mix, or maybe just overpowered by the guitars.

Sadly Live at Luna Park has an even worse mix so it never solved anything for me. What exactly happened during this period? I don't have crazy expectations of the mix in general but ADTOE, DT12 and LALP has so many issues in regards to the mix that something must have changed ... dramatically? I mean was it just JP experimenting?

[Pettor]

Anyone still listening to totally underrated songs like Beneath the Surface?

Along with BAI, that's the song I keep coming back to. BTS should have been recorded by a different band — then it might have gotten the recognition it truly deserves.

[TAC]

Yeah, I agree.  I really love this album, but it is brought down a tad by how it sounds.  The guitar sound is what bugs me the most.  It just sounds rounded off and mushy.  It doesn't have that bite that a metal sound is supposed to have.

We still talking ADTOE, or 6 D's?

[Northern Lion]

Maybe both?

Actually, I like how SDoIT sounds.