Extended solos/jams

[Blackfield]

So Dream Theater used to do that a lot in a whole bunch of songs, but not anymore it seems. I don't mind, because in all honesty most Dream Theater songs contains a whole lot of soloing and instrumental jams already so the extended ones didn't do anything for me. Remember seeing them back in 2007 (have not seen them since), playing Surrounded. They started off with a long, dragged out intro and then messed with the beautiful, perfect Surrounded solo and turned it into a shredfest. Kinda ruined the song for me.

I guess it's okay to sometimes jam a little in between songs, but don't mess around with fucking perfect songs.

[toro]

Yep I hate. HATE. that version of Surrounded.
And the L@B HY solo isn't that great to be honest.

[BlobVanDam]

The BTL one weakens a well constructed instrumental section, and I always skip it. I much prefer the original Surrounded instrumental section too. I'd rather hear extra songs, than hear a well constructed instrumental section changed or stretched out live with improv noodling.
But extended/additional guitar solos mostly work out really well. Both the ITNOG and HY extended/added solos are spectacular additions to their respective songs.

[Cool Chris]

The BTL one weakens a well constructed instrumental section, and I always skip it.

Are we referring to L@B? If so, that would be true, if the original instrumental section was well constructed. It starts out good, but that Zappa section is rubbish. What they added for the Budokan show was better than most of what was on the album version.

Surrounded 07 had some cool added elements, but goddam no song would ever be made better by adding and part of 'Suger Mice' to it.

I generally don't prefer any excess noodling, but in their PDX one-off show in 2010(?) they had an incredible jam. I don't recall what song it was attached to, but it was awesome.

[wasteland]

The BTL one weakens a well constructed instrumental section, and I always skip it.

Are we referring to L@B? If so, that would be true, if the original instrumental section was well constructed. It starts out good, but that Zappa section is rubbish. What they added for the Budokan show was better than most of what was on the album version.

Surrounded 07 had some cool added elements, but goddam no song would ever be made better by adding and part of 'Suger Mice' to it.

I generally don't prefer any excess noodling, but in their PDX one-off show in 2010(?) they had an incredible jam. I don't recall what song it was attached to, but it was awesome.

Perchance Solitary Shell?

And, actually, the extended jams/solos are one of the pivotal reasons behind my love for DT, and the BTL 2004 jam is the only section I actually care to listen from the song 

[fibreoptix]

And, actually, the extended jams/solos are one of the pivotal reasons behind my love for DT, and the BTL 2004 jam is the only section I actually care to listen from the song 

To this day, the only section of any DT song to give me chills EVERY TIME I listen. That climax is quite possibly one of their finest achievements.

[BlobVanDam]

The BTL one weakens a well constructed instrumental section, and I always skip it.

Are we referring to L@B? If so, that would be true, if the original instrumental section was well constructed. It starts out good, but that Zappa section is rubbish. What they added for the Budokan show was better than most of what was on the album version.

Yeah, LaB. The original instrumental section is one of the best on the album, and one of the most technical and creative. The Budokan addition was just *JR plays repeating 3 note pattern* / *MP plays some cymbals*. Not even a comparison. It's just 5 minutes of skippable filler stuffed in the middle of that amazing buildup to the unison solo, killing the momentum entirely.

[Setlist Scotty]

I guess it's okay to sometimes jam a little in between songs, but don't mess around with fucking perfect songs.

Herein lies a problem - what may be the perfect song to you may not be to me or many others. I know there is a good number of fans who like the original version of Hollow Years, but I and many others like the newer extended version.

For the most part, I LOVE the changes that the band has made to their songs live - Surrounded '07, Lie with the Tool jam, Learning to Live with the different instrumental section, etc. As someone else posted, it's one of the things that I really love about the band. If I wanna hear the album version, I'll listen to the album.

That said, not everything change they've made is for the better, IMO. I've never been a big fan of the extended improv featured in BTL on the ToT 2004 tour, nor did I like the extended jamming in Solitary Shell from the tour in 2009-2010. That said, I would encourage them to continue doing it just as they have in the past. By and large it enhances the live experience to a diehard fan like myself, and I don't mind if that means one or two songs less in the setlist.

[wasteland]

Lie with the Tool jam.

Listening to it right now! Loved it since first listen!

And, actually, the extended jams/solos are one of the pivotal reasons behind my love for DT, and the BTL 2004 jam is the only section I actually care to listen from the song 

To this day, the only section of any DT song to give me chills EVERY TIME I listen. That climax is quite possibly one of their finest achievements.

And consider that the LAB climax is probably one of the worst of that tour 

[voncorn]

-

[Lowdz]

The BTL one weakens a well constructed instrumental section, and I always skip it.

Are we referring to L@B? If so, that would be true, if the original instrumental section was well constructed. It starts out good, but that Zappa section is rubbish. What they added for the Budokan show was better than most of what was on the album version.

Surrounded 07 had some cool added elements, but goddam no song would ever be made better by adding and part of 'Suger Mice' to it.

I generally don't prefer any excess noodling, but in their PDX one-off show in 2010(?) they had an incredible jam. I don't recall what song it was attached to, but it was awesome.

I really like the addition of the beautiful Sugar Mice melody.

The ability to go off in a jam is one of the reasons I love DT. I wouldn't want them to do it all night but it's a great addition to a gig. I enjoy when they segue into a hint of a cover version too.

[Pinga]

Now that MP is not doing the arrangements, the solos/jams/instrumental sections in ADTOE are fewer but much more realized and are not superfluous at all, and they have MUCH more impact.

[namgalsipsclar]

Do what you like guys, but DON'T mess with Surrounded!

[Pols Voice]

FREEEEEEEEBIIIRD

But anyway, both the original BTL instrumental section and the LAB jam are awesome.

[wolfking]

I couldn't stand these extended wank fests.  Added nothing to the concert IMHO.

[John94]

I don't like most extensions. I don't really like Hollow Years or BTL at Budokan (Another song coulda took the place of the BTL jam)

I love the Learning to Live extended jam from 05/06 and the ITNOG extended outro. I like the Trial of Tears extended intro in Schmedley Wilcox though.

[hefdaddy42]

Surrounded '07 > studio version

Not a chance.  I mean, if they had done something really creative and new with it, maybe, but instead they inserted parts of two other non-DT songs into it.  No, I never cared for that version of the song at all.

Sugar Mice?  Really?

[Mladen]

Hollow years and Beyond this life on Budokan were really well done. But in general I'm not a fan of extended live versions.

[Setlist Scotty]

I couldn't stand these extended wank fests.  Added nothing to the concert IMHO.

I'll agree with that on occasion - the extended intro to Octavarium was too much. But writing off something like this means writing off the extended version of To Live Forever, as seen on Live in Tokyo, which IIRC has never been slagged on this forum.

Surrounded '07 > studio version

Not a chance.  I mean, if they had done something really creative and new with it, maybe, but instead they inserted parts of two other non-DT songs into it.  No, I never cared for that version of the song at all.

Ummm last time I checked, a good portion of the song had been redone, not unlike the revised version of Caught In a Web done in 96-97 (known as Caught In Alice's Nine Inch Tool Garden); Surrounded '07 is not simply just a matter of inserting bits of 2 songs into it (ala Peruvian Skies). And even those bits aren't that significant - for a good part of it Petrucci does soloing that is all his own, unless that's what you hate.

Judging by what you said, I'm guessing you must've hated how DT performed TtT on World Tourbulence, with the Working Man and By-Tor bits thrown in at the end, eh? For that matter, the version of Learning to Live with the small bits of Crossroads and La Villa Strangiato must've irritated you too.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

On that matter, I also prefer the studio version of Surrounded far more to the '07 version.

Also, James' performance on the album is unmatched. I far prefer his clean voice to the raspy voice he uses in Marquee (although that's a great performance of the song as well).

[Lowdz]

I couldn't stand these extended wank fests.  Added nothing to the concert IMHO.

I'll agree with that on occasion - the extended intro to Octavarium was too much. But writing off something like this means writing off the extended version of To Live Forever, as seen on Live in Tokyo, which IIRC has never been slagged on this forum.

Surrounded '07 > studio version

Not a chance.  I mean, if they had done something really creative and new with it, maybe, but instead they inserted parts of two other non-DT songs into it.  No, I never cared for that version of the song at all.

Ummm last time I checked, a good portion of the song had been redone, not unlike the revised version of Caught In a Web done in 96-97 (known as Caught In Alice's Nine Inch Tool Garden); Surrounded '07 is not simply just a matter of inserting bits of 2 songs into it (ala Peruvian Skies). And even those bits aren't that significant - for a good part of it Petrucci does soloing that is all his own, unless that's what you hate.

Judging by what you said, I'm guessing you must've hated how DT performed TtT on World Tourbulence, with the Working Man and By-Tor bits thrown in at the end, eh? For that matter, the version of Learning to Live with the small bits of Crossroads and La Villa Strangiato must've irritated you too.

This is exactly why I love seeing DT live. If I wanted to hear everything like the album I'd stay home with the album and save myself £50 and the hassle of travelling and the BO of the guy next to me.

[carl320]

I don't mind extended jams occasionally, but sometimes they destroy the feel of the song.  Through Her Eyes on LSFNY is a good example.  JP goes on a shredfest while the soloist is singing, and it is plain bad.

[ZirconBlue]

I rarely find the extended/changed versions to be better than the originals, but, to me, that isn't the point.  The point is to do something different and that's why I like them. 

[wasteland]

I rarely find the extended/changed versions to be better than the originals, but, to me, that isn't the point.  The point is to do something different and that's why I like them.

What about the extended solo in Lines In The Sand? To me, it is at least as good as the original.

[ZirconBlue]

I rarely find the extended/changed versions to be better than the originals, but, to me, that isn't the point.  The point is to do something different and that's why I like them.

What about the extended solo in Lines In The Sand? To me, it is at least as good as the original.

About as good as the original, I think.  Another Hand/The Killing Hand with the Carol of the Bells section (my favorite version being from the Japanese Hollow Years single) is a rare example where I prefer the live rendition to the original.  But, most of the time, I don't feel a need to compare and rate the live versions to the originals.  I can, and do, like both versions most of the time.

[FlamTap]

I may in the minority here, but I think Surrounded '07 is one of the best songs they have ever done. Absolutely stellar in the live setting.

[AngelBack]

Yep I hate. HATE. that version of Surrounded.
And the L@B HY solo isn't that great to be honest.

Surrounded studio version is as near a perfect song as I as I can think of.... but to blaspheme the HY L@B solo,.. I can't....I....just damn.

[Orion1967]

Surrounded '07 > studio version

Q4T! 

[coffees for closers]

The little Reggae jam in Learning to Live on LIve Scenes is not a bad touch. What I don't like is the noodling circus style crap during Under a Glass Moon that at one point was funny and unique but to me now sounds forced and silly as they do it everytime they play it live now.

[Jamariquay]

I like their extended instrumentals, except when I don't.






Serious answer: I like what they did with Hollow Years, and I'd like Surrounded '07 more if the extraneous guitar noodling was cut down a bit. I like the OIALT version of Peruvian Skies. Never heard the Rush-ified Take The Time or Learning To Live, but I doubt it'd ruin the songs for me, and I suspect I'd enjoy them. I didn't much care for their extended versions of Solitary Shell or Beyond This Life.

[krands85]

Mostly I really like them, but generally only when I've heard them a few times (which I guess defeats the purpose somewhat). Beyond This Life has always been my favourite song from Scenes, but I love it even more with the jam in the Budokan version. On the other hand, the studio version of Hollow Years has never been a favourite of mine, but the Budokan version with JPs extended solo is great.

When I saw Prog Nation 09 though, they played a long extended version of Solitary Shell. Since I'd never heard it before, I didn't really enjoy it and wished they'd have used the time to put in another song or something. Though if I'd heard the same jam before a few times I might have really liked it and loved listening to it live. 

[EstyMaJ]

To live forever - tokyo - No love for this  i love the extended solo never get sick of it , i think i listen to it every year quit a few times since it came out on VHS LOL ,wow that was a long time ago yeeesh!!

[snapple]

I thought the solo on HY on LAB was generally well accepted by fans?

[cramx3]

I thought the solo on HY on LAB was generally well accepted by fans?

I love it.  I also love listening to the extended/jamming parts of the live songs every once in awhile to hear something a bit different.  They aren't better than the originals, but its nice to have these IMO.