What do you think MM's financial share is?

[reneranucci]

This part is interesting, since I didn't know a job with DT could guarantee that kind of money. But they're at their peak and touring extensively, so maybe they can make 100k+ per year, most of that income coming from touring

Each album they release sells close to a million copies world wide, they tour in front of audiences of over a hundred thousand, their Youtube videos get a million+ plays.

I don't think those figures are accurate DTgeek, but the rest of you post has many valid points.

[bosk1]

There are a few things at play.  In terms of the actual dollar amounts and economics of being in a band, I don't think that's what rumborak was getting at, but there are a few threads where I've posted in detail about how that typically works and some really rough numbers on what DT as a whole probably take in based on their album sales and touring numbers.

I think this thread is really about what percentage share MM takes.  There are so many variables and unknowns that it's almost impossible to even make a somewhat-educated guess.  But I'll speculate away anyway based on what VERY little we do know.  First off, it has been said by JP in the past that all the band's money comes into a common fund and that the members are paid a set salary.  So royalties, writing credits, etc. all come into DT's corporation.  So here's some additional information that probably isn't known by those without a law, corporate finance, or business ownership background:  Usually, for "small" corporations (which is what DT would be), you don't keep a lot of money in the corporation.  The reason is simple.  Money that comes in is income to the corporation.  At the end of the corporation's tax year, the net income (i.e., income after expenses) is taxed.  As far as the individual band members, they each have to pay individual income tax on their salaries at the end of the year.  So if the corporation holds money at the end of the tax year and then pays it out as salary later, the same money is taxed twice:  Once as corporate income tax (when the corporation has it at the end of the corporation's tax year), and then again as individual income tax (by the individual in the year it is paid out as salary).  Small corporations get around the "double tax" by paying out any excess money before the end of the corporate tax year in the form of bonuses and/or dividends.  So let's say there is $300k sitting in the corporation's bank account at the end of the year.  They might keep $100k in the corporation and just pay the corporate income tax on it because they want to have some cash on hand.  And they pay out the remaining $200k to the members of DT as bonuses so that the corporation isn't taxed on that money and only the individual members have to pay individual income tax. 

The reason I mention any of that is that it may impact how the percentages are paid.  They may have a model set up where the members get an equal base salary.  And then on top of that, they get an additional bonus each paycheck or each quarter that takes into account extra things, such as JP getting additional money for serving as producer, and band members getting additional money for writing credit.  Then when bonuses are paid at the end of the year, they may either split them equally or may pro-rate them, again based on factors such as producer credit, percentage or writing credit, etc.  Or they may draw completely equal salaries, and then just pro-rate the year-end bonuses based on those other factors.  Lots of different ways it could play out.  But I'm guessing there is some sort of model in place where there is an equal base-salary and equal year-end bonus system where they each get a 20% share, and then some other compensation system in place to compensate certain members for those other things.

[bosk1]

I meant to say at the end of that that my guess would be that Mike gets an equal (20%) base salary, but is not yet eligible for other perks that are based on additional duties, percentage of writing credit, etc.  And he will probably get some smaller percentage of any year-end bonus as well.  That's my best educated guess.

Also, as far as how they assign percentages for writing credit and all that other stuff, I'm guessing they change that every year or couple of years since every album has a reshuffling of duties, amount of writing credit, etc.  They probably plug all that into a formula and come up with new percentages at one of their required directors' meetings every year or few years.

[KevShmev]

I love the way Rush handles this: everything that goes to three members of the band gets split evenly, no matter what.  They each get 33 1/3%, regardless of who did what, when or where.  It's too bad more bands don't do things that way.  Granted, no other band has the unique dynamic and member longevity that Rush has, but still.   

[Marion Crane]

He most likely got a fee for recording the drums and he probably gets 1/5 of the cut on the road

[bosk1]

Possible, but unlikely.  That isn't typically how it is done.

[rumborak]

I love the way Rush handles this: everything that goes to three members of the band gets split evenly, no matter what.  They each get 33 1/3%, regardless of who did what, when or where.  It's too bad more bands don't do things that way.  Granted, no other band has the unique dynamic and member longevity that Rush has, but still.

Yeah, but there's also very few bands where the members are so equally important as in Rush. Take as an extreme counter-example Porcupine Tree: Having SW make the same money as the others would be ludicrous.

rumborak

[snapple]

I love the way Rush handles this: everything that goes to three members of the band gets split evenly, no matter what.  They each get 33 1/3%, regardless of who did what, when or where.  It's too bad more bands don't do things that way.  Granted, no other band has the unique dynamic and member longevity that Rush has, but still.

I'm sure JLB/JP/JMX/JR make damn near the same amount. After a few years, MM will probably be there, too.

[rumborak]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

[hefdaddy42]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

I would think so too.

I would imagine that, as of this moment in time, the order of compensation goes like this.

JP
JR
JLB
JM
MM

[BlobVanDam]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

I'd say it's highly likely there was extra money for the producer credit. I'm not sure he would really have gotten any extra for organizing though. Seems too vague a job description to get more money for. I think he did that stuff for its own reward of being part of every detail, plus the extra money from the Ytse Jam bootlegs.
Songwriting is anyone's guess. DT strike me as the kind of band to split it fairly evenly (at least more so than they'd need to given how royalties are usually split), although given the comments over the years about JLB not being part of the writing process etc, maybe not.

I don't know. All just speculation of course. None of us have the inside info to say for sure. Either way, they all must be making a decent amount of money from DT.

[rumborak]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

I would think so too.

I would imagine that, as of this moment in time, the order of compensation goes like this.

JP
JR
JLB
JM
MM

You know, to crank that Pandora's Box open with a crowbar, the constraints on songwriting contribution (what was it, only complete songs?) might also have had a monetary basis.

rumborak

[Madman Shepherd]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

I would think so too.

I would imagine that, as of this moment in time, the order of compensation goes like this.

JP
JR
JLB
JM
MM

I would think JM gets more than JLB.  He has cowritten almost every song whereas JLB has cowritten very few.  Even when the album credited songs written "by Dream Theater" the actual publishing states it was written by just the four guys with instruments.  Plus I have to wonder if maybe JLB makes a little less because they have to pay out more for travel for him.  Just a thought. 

[KevShmev]

I love the way Rush handles this: everything that goes to three members of the band gets split evenly, no matter what.  They each get 33 1/3%, regardless of who did what, when or where.  It's too bad more bands don't do things that way.  Granted, no other band has the unique dynamic and member longevity that Rush has, but still.

Yeah, but there's also very few bands where the members are so equally important as in Rush. Take as an extreme counter-example Porcupine Tree: Having SW make the same money as the others would be ludicrous.

All true, which is why I referred to Rush's unique dynamic before.

[slycordinator]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

I would think so too.

I would imagine that, as of this moment in time, the order of compensation goes like this.

JP
JR
JLB
JM
MM

You know, to crank that Pandora's Box open with a crowbar, the constraints on songwriting contribution (what was it, only complete songs?) might also have had a monetary basis.

rumborak

I believe it was complete ideas... like only producing lyrics with an accompanying melody.

[snapple]

I'd think that JM would make more being the last of 2 founding members.

[hefdaddy42]

I'd think that JM would make more being the last of 2 founding members.

Yeah, that's possible.

[snapple]

We were in Dream Theater before it was cool


/unfunnyattemptathipsterhumor

[jammindude]

For fuck's sake. Do you guys insert the Dream Theater discs sideways into your buttholes so you shit your poop DT style?!!

So....I *shouldn't* do that???      *sigh*....I feel a little silly now...

[rush-signals]

He probably gets 100% since without him DT are nothing now!  LOL

[darkshade]

I dunno dude. This is all pure speculation, but if I judge MP correctly, he will have made sure he got compensated for his extra efforts in DT as an organizer, songwriter, producer etc. So, naturally I would there's a reasonable difference between someone like JMX and JP/MP.

rumborak

I would think so too.

I would imagine that, as of this moment in time, the order of compensation goes like this.

JP
JR
JLB
JM
MM

I would think JM gets more than JLB.  He has cowritten almost every song whereas JLB has cowritten very few.  Even when the album credited songs written "by Dream Theater" the actual publishing states it was written by just the four guys with instruments.  Plus I have to wonder if maybe JLB makes a little less because they have to pay out more for travel for him.  Just a thought. 

As far as song writing credits go, some albums have it where the credit goes to "Dream Theater". Others (such as SDOIT), have the songs credited to "John Myung, John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy, Jordan Rudess" (we're not talking about songs written by 1 or 2 members).
I think it depends on the JLB dynamic and other factors we don't know.

[Madman Shepherd]

I would think JM gets more than JLB.  He has cowritten almost every song whereas JLB has cowritten very few.  Even when the album credited songs written "by Dream Theater" the actual publishing states it was written by just the four guys with instruments.  Plus I have to wonder if maybe JLB makes a little less because they have to pay out more for travel for him.  Just a thought. 

As far as song writing credits go, some albums have it where the credit goes to "Dream Theater". Others (such as SDOIT), have the songs credited to "John Myung, John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy, Jordan Rudess" (we're not talking about songs written by 1 or 2 members).
I think it depends on the JLB dynamic and other factors we don't know.

If you look at the actual publishing rights (which can be found on some website) it has always just been credited to the four instrumentalists.  On the CD they put "by Dream Theater" to make it seem more cohesive.  This was actually addressed in Portnoy's forum a while back.  They started just crediting the four on the CDs because JLB wasn't present. 

In other words, the publishing rights have always just been the four guys, but publicly they wanted people to know JLB wasn't as active a member of the band...weird I know. 

[slycordinator]

I would think JM gets more than JLB.  He has cowritten almost every song whereas JLB has cowritten very few.  Even when the album credited songs written "by Dream Theater" the actual publishing states it was written by just the four guys with instruments.  Plus I have to wonder if maybe JLB makes a little less because they have to pay out more for travel for him.  Just a thought. 

As far as song writing credits go, some albums have it where the credit goes to "Dream Theater". Others (such as SDOIT), have the songs credited to "John Myung, John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy, Jordan Rudess" (we're not talking about songs written by 1 or 2 members).
I think it depends on the JLB dynamic and other factors we don't know.

If you look at the actual publishing rights (which can be found on some website) it has always just been credited to the four instrumentalists.  On the CD they put "by Dream Theater" to make it seem more cohesive.  This was actually addressed in Portnoy's forum a while back.  They started just crediting the four on the CDs because JLB wasn't present.

A monkey wrench to throw into this:
While the album itself may say that a certain individual wrote the song (or on wikipedia/wherever it says so)...

On the ASCAP webpage, when I searched for Dream Theater, every song I found of theirs was credited with the "writers" as every individual member of the band (including JLB, though listed as "LA BRIE KEVIN JAMES") and the "performer" as "Dream Theater."

edit: nevermind. he wasn't credited as a writer on at least one of the songs from the last album but the performer side still lists as "Dream Theater"