Guitar player from A7X gives a little more insight about the MP/DT split.

[Jamariquay]

I just searched and found the quote (https://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=75106):

"Check out the first song on [John Petrucci's] fave album of the year.... WOW, the arrangement and orchestration sounds awfully familiar!! Surely it must be an intentional 'nugget' for the fans... It couldn't possibly be blatant formula plagiarism, now could it...?? I just have to laugh...Hey...I'm not trying to start a war.... and I am indeed totally in a happy place in my life and career... I'm just merely making an observation and posting openly on my own forum like I always have and always will... If anybody ELSE wants to blow this up, it's their choice and doing...not mine! And PS – to defend music that I co-wrote/arranged (that were cited previously in this thread), there's a difference between 'inspiration corner'/'copping a certain vibe' and blatantly re-writing an existing song or formula section by section..."
[/quote]

What a horrible thing to say.

[rumborak]

I see really zero fault with A7X, at all. I mean, from their point of view they got the gracious offer by a world-renowned drummer to fill in for their deceased drummer, so of course they took the offer. Who would EVER have expected that the guy would suddenly turn his back on his 20-odd years' band and want to join a band that are decades his junior?! I can only imagine their faces when he came to them and explained that he had quit DT and was ready to become an A7X member. And that they pulled the plug on MP after that stunt is pretty understandable. Clearly something was off.

rumborak

[ResultsMayVary]

I see really zero fault with A7X, at all. I mean, from their point of view they got the gracious offer by a world-renowned drummer to fill in for their deceased drummer, so of course they took the offer. Who would EVER have expected that the guy would suddenly turn his back on his 20-odd years' band and want to join a band that are decades his junior?! I can only imagine their faces when he came to them and explained that he had quit DT and was ready to become an A7X member. And that they pulled the plug on MP after that stunt is pretty understandable. Clearly something was off.

rumborak

I don't know how anyone can place ANY blame on A7X. There was not a deal in place for MP to be a permanent drummer, only temporary and temporary it was.

[gentaishinigami]

I see really zero fault with A7X, at all. I mean, from their point of view they got the gracious offer by a world-renowned drummer to fill in for their deceased drummer, so of course they took the offer. Who would EVER have expected that the guy would suddenly turn his back on his 20-odd years' band and want to join a band that are decades his junior?! I can only imagine their faces when he came to them and explained that he had quit DT and was ready to become an A7X member. And that they pulled the plug on MP after that stunt is pretty understandable. Clearly something was off.

rumborak

I don't know how anyone can place ANY blame on A7X. There was not a deal in place for MP to be a permanent drummer, only temporary and temporary it was.

I hope you guys don't think I was trying to, as I most certainly wasn't, and tried to make sure I made it obvious I wasn't saying that. 

[Orbert]

No, it's cool.  I'm pretty sure the overall consensus is that Mike got carried away, as he tends to do, and A7X stuck to the original deal.

A7X left the deal open-ended, which was smart.  It gave them options.  Mike could've worked out awesome; they could've come off that leg of the tour feeling really good about things, he could've been asked to play on the next leg, or (longshot) even join the band permanently, but that's just not what happened.

[Madman Shepherd]

At this point, a great big "I'm sorry" with no buts attached would be the best thing MP could do to save what's left of his self respect and fan base. It would at least be a good start.

The only apology of that nature would be something along the lines of "I'm sorry that I speak my mind.'  Kinda like when he "apologized" to James and said "I'm sorry for believing the out of context statement." Not an apology whatsoever

[Quarter_Cask]

I'm still kind of laughing at the line: "I put out my press release"

that one deserves it's own "MEME" so badly. now only to find some matching face for that qoute... 

[Zydar]

I'm still kind of laughing at the line: "I put out my press release"

that one deserves it's own "MEME" so badly. now only to find some matching face for that qoute... 

[rumborak]

Holy crap. I usually don't follow mp.com but did so today because of the thread that was opened discussing the same thing. Of which there is no evidence anymore at this point since the Thought Police stepped in and made everyone "happy and smiling" again. I've also never seen a board more scared shitless to even utter certain words for fear of the Thought Police dropping by.

rumborak

[black_biff_stadler]

I could only make it a minute into the clip. Does he really stammer and say "ya know?" every 5 seconds for the entire 23 minutes or do I just need to persevere a little farther into it to actually see something enjoyable?

[Kotowboy]

I just searched and found the quote (https://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=75106):

"Check out the first song on [John Petrucci's] fave album of the year.... WOW, the arrangement and orchestration sounds awfully familiar!! Surely it must be an intentional 'nugget' for the fans... It couldn't possibly be blatant formula plagiarism, now could it...?? I just have to laugh...Hey...I'm not trying to start a war.... and I am indeed totally in a happy place in my life and career... I'm just merely making an observation and posting openly on my own forum like I always have and always will... If anybody ELSE wants to blow this up, it's their choice and doing...not mine! And PS – to defend music that I co-wrote/arranged (that were cited previously in this thread), there's a difference between 'inspiration corner'/'copping a certain vibe' and blatantly re-writing an existing song or formula section by section..."

What a horrible thing to say.

Yeah.

As it's been said already - there are more striking similarities to earlier songs from when Portnoy was in the band.

[wolfking]

I'm still kind of laughing at the line: "I put out my press release"

that one deserves it's own "MEME" so badly. now only to find some matching face for that qoute... 

I personally think he answered that question perfectly, and I actually have a lot of respect for the band as I really always just wrote them off.  Pretty much, we were all right.

[Kotowboy]

Feel like I should buy an A7X album to support the guys.....



Not nightmare though.

[Quarter_Cask]

I'm still kind of laughing at the line: "I put out my press release"

that one deserves it's own "MEME" so badly. now only to find some matching face for that qoute... 

thank you sir

[Mladen]

I'm not a fan of A7X, but the guys were class act all the way. 

[?]

I'm not a fan of A7X, but the guys were class act all the way. 

[ZKX-2099]

To the tune of The Shattered Fortress...

MP: MY PRESS RELEASE
JLB: I put it out...

[Mladen]

MP: MY PRESS RELEASE
JLB: I put it out...

[Perpetual Change]

It seems strange to me that some are dismissing A7X's various statements that they were uncomfortable with the way Mike handled himself publicly as completely isolated from the fact he was not offered a full time job, or even an extension so that he could finish out the Nightmare tour cycle. The fact is, "Yes", Mike was never promised a full-time gig from the getgo. But, as with any temporary job, one expects that outstanding performance and making a good impression on one's employers would lead to a possible consideration of future employment and maybe even eventual "full time" employment. In Mike's case, however, he was let go from A7X in November or December, and instead of bringing him on for the second leg in February, A7X went with a new unknown guy.

Seems really strange to me.  Though Mike was never promised a spot on the 2nd leg of the Nightmare tour, you'd imagine that if the band were happy with him they would have let him at least complete the cycle for the sake of convenience; rather than selecting, hiring, and rehearsing with a new guy over the holiday season. Yes, you can pretend that there were no reasons for this and A7X were just frigidly sticking to what their contract. But since continuing on with Mike would have been so convenient for them, the more likely scenario is that A7X had some others reasons for not continuing on with Mike outside of that.

So what are they? I suspect paying Mike was one of them. MP probably would have costs A7X more money than that unknown guy they ultimately decided to go with. Outside of that, knowing what we know about Mike's involvement in his other projects I suspect that A7X and their management got bad vibes from the way he seemed to be strong-arming his way into the band. And once you put together that with the multiple statements the band has made about being able to tell that Mike "wanted the job" though they were uncomfortable with the PR debacle he was creating for himself and sucking A7X into, it's not hard to come up with reasons why.

[chrisbDTM]

i think they also wanted to get away from 'A7X featuring Mike Portnoy', and go back to just 'A7X'. Mike's a high profile drummer

[Mebert78]

Very nice!   

[bosk1]

It seems strange to me that some are dismissing A7X's various statements that they were uncomfortable with the way Mike handled himself publicly as completely isolated from the fact he was not offered a full time job, or even an extension so that he could finish out the Nightmare tour cycle. The fact is, "Yes", Mike was never promised a full-time gig from the getgo. But, as with any temporary job, one expects that outstanding performance and making a good impression on one's employers would lead to a possible consideration of future employment and maybe even eventual "full time" employment. In Mike's case, however, he was let go from A7X in November or December, and instead of bringing him on for the second leg in February, A7X went with a new unknown guy.

What you and a couple of others are missing is that A7X has been quite clear that Mike was brought on only as a temporary fill in and there was never an intent to make it permanent.  Did the tweeting, press release, etc. business also annoy them and run contrary to how they like to do things?  Absolutely.  But they have never said that that was a cause for letting him go.  That next leap is not (at least so far) supported by anything the band has said.  There's a huge difference between saying "we didn't like that Mike was doing X because that's now how we do things" and saying "Mike was let go because we didn't like that Mike was doing X because that's now how we do things."  Maybe the latter is in fact true.  But so far, neither Mike nor A7X have said that, so nobody should assume that it is true.  To claim it as fact is just plain dishonest, as is this fake timeline of events:

1. MP decides to fill in for The Rev
2. MP enjoys himself immensely in A7X, has lost his love for DT (somewhat)
3. MP lets A7X know of his feelings and his desire to stay on. A7X replies "err, let's see."
4. DT meets to discuss new album, MP lays down he wants an indefinite hiatus
5. DT rejects it, back and forth between MP and DT results in them splitting
6. MP returns to A7X telling them he's no longer in DT, ready to stick around for much longer
7. A7X doesn't like the idea at all, decides to cut ties with MP by not extending the contract

Yeah, sorry, but that's just inaccurate.  Quite a few of those are speculative, and #3 is just flat out false.  A more accurate timeline, trying to stick as closely as possible to rumborak's fictional version as possible, would be:

1. MP decides to fill in for The Rev after being asked to by A7X; They bring him on as a temporary replacement with a definite end date
2. MP enjoys himself immensely in A7X and his growing feelings that he has lost his love for DT (somewhat) are more apparent
3.  A7X auditions and hires new drummer (also a temporary fill-in)
4.  MP lets A7X know of his feelings and his desire to stay on. A7X replies "that's not what we agreed to."
5. DT meets to discuss new album, MP lays down he wants an indefinite hiatus
6. DT rejects it, back and forth between MP and DT results in them splitting
7. MP returns to A7X telling them he's no longer in DT, ready to stick around for much longer
8. A7X repeats that that isn't the deal and that they have already made arrangements for the next part of the tour

And even that might not be 100% accurate, but that's what can be gleaned from what has been said publicly so far.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I can't claim it as a fact, but I would bet a lot of money that Mike's handling of himself during his split with Dream Theater was at least a contributing factor to A7X's early dismissal of him.

[rumborak]

I personally at this point see very little reason to believe MP's versions of events, ESPECIALLY when they have the side effect of making him look in the eye of the reader.
Besides, MP showing up and saying" I'm ready to be a full member" makes little sense if both parties had been clear about his gig ending at contract end. He would then *at least* have run his decisions by A7X, because making the transition from "last day at work is XYZ" to "I'm gonna make myself available for full-time by quitting DT without even consulting A7X" would just be plain bizarre. At the very least some unspoken expectation of MP's continuation must have floated around at some point.

rumborak

[Cruithne]

1. MP decides to fill in for The Rev after being asked to by A7X; They bring him on as a temporary replacement with a definite end date
2. MP enjoys himself immensely in A7X and his growing feelings that he has lost his love for DT (somewhat) are more apparent
3.  A7X auditions and hires new drummer (also a temporary fill-in)
4.  MP lets A7X know of his feelings and his desire to stay on. A7X replies "that's not what we agreed to."
5. DT meets to discuss new album, MP lays down he wants an indefinite hiatus
6. DT rejects it, back and forth between MP and DT results in them splitting
7. MP returns to A7X telling them he's no longer in DT, ready to stick around for much longer
8. A7X repeats that that isn't the deal and that they have already made arrangements for the next part of the tour

I'm not sure where 3&4 came from?

I'd be interested to know how the following interview fits into the timeline of events.

https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=148721

[bosk1]

I personally at this point see very little reason to believe MP's versions of events, ESPECIALLY when they have the side effect of making him look in the eye of the reader.

Of course. 

I'd be interested to know how the following interview fits into the timeline of events.

https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=148721

What I take from that is that Mike is completely in the dark about what A7X is doing . It is already November 2010 at that point, and he doesn't even know whether or not they will be touring in 2011?  Really?  Even though they already have tour dates lined up and a drummer lined up to fill those dates?  Seems to me that Mike just wasn't paying attention and was only seeing/hearing what he wanted to see/hear at that point.

[kirksnosehair]

I think it's called "denial" bosk1

[KevShmev]

We have no way of knowing when exactly A7X lined up having another drummer in regards to the timeline.  For all we know, they might have been fine with Portnoy staying with them through the beginning of 2011, but once they got a sense of what a drama queen he was being regarding the DT split and whatnot, they started looking.  This probably would have been around mid-September.  I doubt they already had arrangements (see: a new drummer) set up then.  And if they did, they have never said it, so there is no reason to think that they started searching for a replacement for Portnoy until after he pulled his drama queen act.  It is probably a safe bet that they started looking sometime later in September, and once they settled on a guy in, what, November or December, they let Portnoy know.

[rumborak]

https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=148721

Portnoy: Right now it's going to depend on AVENGED SEVENFOLD's future plans. It hasn't been completely determined where they go from here. If they continue touring through next year I'll be with them and I'll carry on for the duration of the tour. Where our relationship goes beyond the tour is yet to be seen.

Can we finally put this to rest now? Mike Portnoy expected to stay on until the end of the tour, way into 2011. He got axed by them because they wouldn't put up with the drama anymore.

rumborak

[bosk1]

I think it's called "denial" bosk1

Exactly.  Not sure why some people are so in love with their own opinions that they can't see that.

[rumborak]

You're still hanging on to it, bosk?
Your major point over pages of this thread and the crux of you argument, that nobody in A7X (including MP) expected him to stay past his contract, was just contradicted by Mike Portnoy himself.

rumborak

[bosk1]

I never said Mike didn't expect to stay on.  He clearly did.  But he shouldn't have because what IS clear is that nobody in A7X expected him to. 

[ronrule]

If this contract thing was so clearly the end why does Zacky say "it didn't work out"?  If it were the clear end date that everyone knew all along then it "worked out" exactly as everyone planned. Was he also in denial?

[rumborak]

@bosk: While that laready (to me) is something very different from what I remember as your stance on this, I still find it very unbelievable that MP would make a public statement so wildly at odds with what him and A7X had agreed on. Had it always been crystal-clear from A7X that they had no intention to keep MP past the contract, MP would have at least probed the waters with them and then never would have made such an interview as above.
So, at the very least A7X must have been super wishy-washy about their feelings of him sticking around whenever he alluded to it, so that he would give such a rock-solid affirmation of that notion in that interview. I mean, he's not even bothering framing it in an "if" sentence there. The only "if" for him is whether they continue touring. After that, it's clear to him he will stay on.
Overall, not a particularly convincing scenario from your side. Much more convincing: A7X told him they would extend it when the time comes and things go well, but A7X changed their minds when the shit hit the fan.

rumborak

[bosk1]

If this contract thing was so clearly the end why does Zacky say "it didn't work out"?  If it were the clear end date that everyone knew all along then it "worked out" exactly as everyone planned. Was he also in denial?

You'd have to ask Zacky what he meant.  I couldn't guess.

@bosk: While that laready (to me) is something very different from what I remember as your stance on this, I still find it very unbelievable that MP would make a public statement so wildly at odds with what him and A7X had agreed on. Had it always been crystal-clear from A7X that they had no intention to keep MP past the contract, MP would have at least probed the waters with them and then never would have made such an interview as above.
So, at the very least A7X must have been super wishy-washy about their feelings of him sticking around whenever he alluded to it, so that he would give such a rock-solid affirmation of that notion in that interview. I mean, he's not even bothering framing it in an "if" sentence there. The only "if" for him is whether they continue touring. After that, it's clear to him he will stay on.
Overall, not a particularly convincing scenario from your side. Much more convincing: A7X told him they would extend it when the time comes and things go well, but A7X changed their minds when the shit hit the fan.

rumborak

I don't know how it could be "more convincing" when there isn't any evidence that has come to light so far suggesting it's true. 

But in any case, you are entitled to believe what you want.  I don't care what your opinion is on the subject.  You can present whatever opinion you like, and your opinion may in fact be the correct one.  But when it is only opinion and you present it on this board as fact, that's where you cross the line.  The only facts are that they only agreed to keep Mike through the end of the 2010 tour.  Both Mike and A7X have said that.  Whether any other reasons played a role in the decision not to extend, we ultimately don't know.  And whether Mike believed there might be an extension because A7X implied they might keep him, whether he made a bad assumption, or whether it was because of some other reasons is also speculation.  So, again, speculate away.  But don't present it as fact because there are no facts saying that that version is the correct one.