Breaking All Illusions = An unpopular song amongst the majority?

[Vajra]

I made a post in the other thread about this, but no one really commented on it. Anyway...

Saw DT last night at NYC, and I have to say, one of the songs that got the least type of positive reaction from the crowd was BAI. I mean, no one was boo'ing or anything, but people just generally didn't seem that into the song. There were a fair amount of people who were rocking to it, but they were definitely the minority. Why do you think this is?

When you look anywhere online, this is the one song that everyone seems to praise the most, it seems weird that it didn't convert well to a live audience. Did anyone else have the same experience?

Also: BMU BMD, Forsaken, Fatal Tragedy, BITS, and UAGM received the best reaction from the fans last night.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

That's odd. BMU BMD and Forsaken getting the best reactions especially.

[Vajra]

That's odd. BMU BMD and Forsaken getting the best reactions especially.

Tell me about it, I was surprised as well. Though I was also very pleased, it made the experience of rocking out and singing to the song all the better. It's always amazing when the entire audience is so into the song along with you. I was a bit bummed out when I saw the lack luster reaction to BAI, made me feel lonely...

[Jaffa]

I maintain that NYC is silly.

[Millais]

Well for me. I'd rather see Outcry over Breaking All Illusions any day live.
It's not an "unpopular song" but I guess it probably just isn't as great live as some of the others in the setlist - if you look at the videos of live performances none of the crowd seem to be as in to it as say "Endless Sacrifice".

[Vajra]

Well for me. I'd rather see Outcry over Breaking All Illusions any day live.
It's not an "unpopular song" but I guess it probably just isn't as great live as some of the others in the setlist - if you look at the videos of live performances none of the crowd seem to be as in to it as say "Endless Sacrifice".

We got both Outcry and BAI actually. 

[The Letter M]

Perhaps people were just intently watching/listening since it's a pretty intense epic piece, and is more along the lines of a piece that one might rather watch and listen to than fist-pump/head-bang to (like ES, Forsaken, BMUBMD, etc. etc.) - it's a real concert piece.

-Marc.

[Vajra]

Perhaps people were just intently watching/listening since it's a pretty intense epic piece, and is more along the lines of a piece that one might rather watch and listen to than fist-pump/head-bang to (like ES, Forsaken, BMUBMD, etc. etc.) - it's a real concert piece.

-Marc.

I had that thought as well.

[7StringedBeast]

Last night, the guitar solo to BAI was incredibly moving.  The buildup during the solo is just amazing.  One of the best moments of the night for sure.

[Cranky]

It is my firm belief that Breaking All Illusions is a fan favourite here, on THESE forums.
But, this is such a small demographic, you know?
It's a good place to garner statistics about different aspects of the band, but I don't think we represent the entire population of Dream Theater fans, because they are a special kind of band that has different eras and goes through different styles, and that attracts many different people to their music for different reasons.

Maybe, just maybe... Most of the fans that go to the concerts don't even like Breaking All Illusions,
It's just most of the people that are on these forum.
I mean, we can have polls on who likes Breaking All Illusions and who doesn't, but even if it gets 200 'yes' votes, that still doesn't account for all the fans that aren't on this forum.

I mean, I don't even like Breaking All Illusions all that much.

[bosk1]

I mean, I don't even like Breaking All Illusions all that much.

Same here.  I mean, it's a very good song.  But "very good" easily gets lost in a sea of "amazing" when you are talking about the kinds of set lists the band has been playing or a collection of songs like what we have on ADTOE.

[IronEarthTheater]

Some songs go over much better live than they do in studio, and vice versa.  Constant Motion and Endless Sacrifice strike me as songs that were awesome live but that aren't among my favorites when I listen to the CD's.  I can also see how an atmospheric song like Scarred wouldn't go over as well in concert.  Maybe things will change, it could just be familiarity, but my experience has been that easily sung vocals typically translate well live.  And BAI doesn't have many vocals at all, honestly.  I'm not sure it's even a song that I would rock out to.  I mean,  I love it, but I might absorb and worship instead...

[Millais]

Well for me. I'd rather see Outcry over Breaking All Illusions any day live.
It's not an "unpopular song" but I guess it probably just isn't as great live as some of the others in the setlist - if you look at the videos of live performances none of the crowd seem to be as in to it as say "Endless Sacrifice".

We got both Outcry and BAI actually. 

I know but if there had to be a choice between them I would go for Outcry. Both incredible songs, no doubt about that, but I'd just rather see Outcry!

[Vajra]

Some songs go over much better live than they do in studio, and vice versa.  Constant Motion and Endless Sacrifice strike me as songs that were awesome live but that aren't among my favorites when I listen to the CD's.  I can also see how an atmospheric song like Scarred wouldn't go over as well in concert.  Maybe things will change, it could just be familiarity, but my experience has been that easily sung vocals typically translate well live.  And BAI doesn't have many vocals at all, honestly.  I'm not sure it's even a song that I would rock out to.  I mean,  I love it, but I might absorb and worship instead...

Funny you mention CM. When I listened to it on the cd, I was like "Hmm, the song is okay I guess" But when I saw DT for the first time live during their Chaos In Motion tour, and they opened the show with Constant Motion, I was blown the fuck away. The song was incredible live, and till this day, remains one of my greatest concert experiences.

[vulcandj]

Some songs go over much better live than they do in studio, and vice versa.

While I haven't seen BAI live (not in the set in SF) I have to agree with this. I have seen live versions of TGD, and it seems to lose someting when played live (although it was pretty cool when I saw them play it, maybe because I really like the song).

Seems like I just contadicted myself.

[Dr. DTVT]

Speaking of ignoring threads, how did you get to the show last night?

[JimmyJava]

I've always seen it as a more of a studio song rather than a live song. And for that, it's great.

[Vajra]

Speaking of ignoring threads, how did you get to the show last night?

Haha I didn't mean to ignore it. I went to bed shortly after I made it, and the next day I prepared for the concert as soon as I woke up, and totally forgot about it once I got home since I was in my post-concert high. I'll post there in a bit 

And my friend ended up calling me later that night, so everything was planned out fine.

[JasonScandopolous]

In NJ, BAI got the best reception.  Not sure if thats because it was the last song (I wasnt aware of that, not sure how many people were) or if people loved it... but it certainly was the best song they played that night, in both absolute terms and live vs. album.

[The Silent Cody]

Another BAI thread I told here 100 times that BAI is a song that missing something... You're waiting for some conclusion, for some big epic final and get only repeated guitar solo, which is great IMO, but it's not epic so much as the ending of TCOT or Finally Free or Learning To Live or 8VM... BAI for me has got no final, only some few very cool sounds on the end, that if would be longer, would be that kind of ending I would want to have. Anyway, it's not only about the ending, somethings missing in the song also... I mean, it's a very good song, but IMO it's getting way too much love that deserves...

[theseoafs]

You're waiting for some conclusion, for some big epic final and get only repeated guitar solo

Not at all. The reprise of Far From Heaven is exactly the big epic finale the song needs.

[The Silent Cody]

^ IMO that big epic finale what You're talking about is nice, but it's not epic... I was expecting more from that song... not good enough...

[Frost134]

Personally, this song immediately cracked my top 10 after hearing it for the first time.

[Ħ]

The way I see it, is that FFS/BAI seems to be as musically powerful and compact as WFS/LTL.  Everyone sees the connection.  So there's already a huge amount of hype for the song before you even listen to it.  Naturally, seeing as it's the main epic of the album, it secures a place in the listeners' top DT tracks.  But once you give it time to sink in, and let the connection with WFS/LTL disappear...it's really not that great.  I personally would rank at least OTBOA, BMUBMD, BTS, and Outcry above it.

[theseoafs]

^ IMO that big epic finale what You're talking about is nice, but it's not epic... I was expecting more from that song... not good enough...

The ending is just as effective as Learning to Live's fadeout, if not moreso. You've got a lot of balls to say that the song's minute-and-a-half conclusion is "not good enough".

[bosk1]

Why?  It isn't.

[theseoafs]

Why?  It isn't.

What's wrong with it, notwithstanding vague complaints about its failure to be epic enough?

[The Silent Cody]

^ IMO that big epic finale what You're talking about is nice, but it's not epic... I was expecting more from that song... not good enough...

The ending is just as effective as Learning to Live's fadeout, if not moreso. You've got a lot of balls to say that the song's minute-and-a-half conclusion is "not good enough".

I don't need balls to say my opinion about the song From the first time I heard it, the only parts that I liked was the chorus, the beginning of the instrumental part and the guitar solo. Other stuff seems for me a little mess... it's still great musically of course. But as a whole... I have doubts

[Ħ]

LTL's fadeout gives this feeling that the energy and emotion are carrying on, even though there's no bombastic conclusion.  BAI ends with this strange verse which is musically forgettable and lyrically awkward.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Why?  It isn't.

What's wrong with it, notwithstanding vague complaints about its failure to be epic enough?

The ending is fine. It's the beginning that throws me a bit. The first few minutes of the song, I'm literally seeing LEARNING TO LIVE flashing in front of my eyes the entire time.

[The Silent Cody]

^Yeah I have the same feeling with the beginning and the the first verse. And with cool acoustic like breakdown at the beginning of instrumental part pure LTL

[bosk1]

Why?  It isn't.

What's wrong with it, notwithstanding vague complaints about its failure to be epic enough?

There's nothing "wrong" with it at all.  But as I said above:

...it's a very good song.  But "very good" easily gets lost in a sea of "amazing" when you are talking about the kinds of set lists the band has been playing or a collection of songs like what we have on ADTOE.

Same thing if you're comparing it to Learning To Live.  "Very good" can't compete with "amazing."

[johncal]

It is a terrible dance tune.

[TAC]

BAI was freaking incredible live. I sat in wonder as I've pictured seeing it live since I got the album.

Of course it's placed after Fatal Tragedy which kicked all sorts of ass. So intense. It may have an effect on what came next, but I thought most people were watching BAI very intently.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm not sure if it's because the general fans don't like it, or whether it's just because it's a proggier/mellow type of song, but it doesn't really surprise me. When I saw DT live, the crowd seemed absolutely dead during LITS (although it was nice to have some silence so I could listen to it ).
But it should be obvious by now that this forum's DT opinions in no way represent the average Dream Theater fan in the real world. Look at songs like CM and TDEN. Extremely popular live songs.