Mike Portnoy on That Metal Show

[Mat JB]

Fair enough Bosk, it was a little harsh.

[bosk1]

Mike, you left of your own volition. It was your choice, and now you have to live with it. Please don't perpetuate this drama any longer. Many now associate your name with interpersonal conflict rather than drumming, and this problem will only worsen the longer you publicly complain about DT.

And this is the exact same kind of post the mods and myself have been giving warnings for.  Consider this your final warning on the subject.  This is not the place to come and lecture Mike Portnoy or anyone else.

[Perpetual Change]

For those of you wondering how to catch this, That Metal Show has most of the episodes up on their website. This one isn't up yet, but usually they're up within the week. Unfortunately, like so many other networks, they seem to be blocking it for people who try to access it outside the States. I just tried to watch the Ripper Owens one and it didn't work.

[WildeSilas]

I've always wondered why it takes major networks 1-3 weeks to upload a video of a show when it would take me all of 5 minutes. I know they're going to re-run it a few times, but given that most of the people who want to see this That Metal Show likely don't watch another single thing on VH1, why not just post it to the web already? 

[serrano]

Even i do not agree with some of MP reactions, i do not see what he does/did to deserve so much hate. Even if he chose to leave DT, i can not even imagine how this feels after 25 years. How would you feel/react?

But this situation reminds me a lot of 8V full circle:
Bashing someone because you feel he bashes someone... 

[russellmania]

So what do we have in this thread about MP on TMS?

1) Eddie Trunk may or may not be a douche, depending on who you are.
2) MP "shouldn't have" remarked about the iPod incident.  On a show where he was being interviewed about what led him to that point.  Sure.  God forbid he speak his mind any more or ever again.

This thread had great potential, but turned into a shitfest pretty quick.  I'm starting to feel like there isn't a f*cking thing MP can do to please anybody.  Almost nothing but complaints, no matter what he does.  "Well, hey, he's a public figure, and I'm passionate about the music I love, so I can bitch all I want!"  Yeah.  You can.  Doesn't necessarily mean you should ("If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"), but of course, everyone takes it as license to bitch.  Whatever.  I think he's gotten unfairly heaped upon by LOTS of people here and the mods are (mostly) the only ones who seem to notice or care.  I find it upsetting, and hope that things in DT-land will sometime soon settle down to some degree or normalcy where people don't have to be all "FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU" whenever MP's brought up or whenever he says anything.  Just my $0.02.  For the record, I wasn't directing this post at anyone in particular.

As far as this episode of TMS?  I loved it.  I was excited to see the Sykes interview segment.  Those guys on TMS always make things humorous and I love that.  I thought it was an excellent episode and I don't see anything wrong with anything Mike said.  He spoke honestly and I really enjoyed hearing what he had to say and his take on their top 5 list.

So why are posts like this, that are clearly defending Portnoy and criticizing those who criticize him allowed, but posts that criticize MP are not?  Seems like a double standard and this sort of post seems as inflammatory as one that takes a negative view of MP.  It's also unfair in the sense that anyone who tries to respond to a post like this one and explain why they are criticizing MP will be considered a troll.

[bosk1]

If you don't see why those two kinds of posts are not the same at all, I am not sure what can be done to explain it to you.  But I'll take a quick shot at it anyway.

As I have said over, and over, and over again, and as is clear in the forum rules, constructive criticism is permitted.  But it needs to be both constructive and tactful.  Going beyond the music and offering criticism of any band member's personality traits or personal characteristics is probably going to put you on the wrong side of the rules more often than not.  This forum is simply not the place to attack someone's personality, no matter how much you personally may feel you are justified. 

There is nothing about Cozmo's post whatsoever that has anything to do with the above rule.  And it is not, as you mischaracterized it, defending Mike Portnoy anywhere that I can see.  Cozmo was correctly only pointing out that other posts have crossed the line.  Again, if you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you. 

[BlobVanDam]

So why are posts like this, that are clearly defending Portnoy and criticizing those who criticize him allowed, but posts that criticize MP are not?  Seems like a double standard and this sort of post seems as inflammatory as one that takes a negative view of MP.  It's also unfair in the sense that anyone who tries to respond to a post like this one and explain why they are criticizing MP will be considered a troll.

What part of that post is a double standard? Cozmo didn't directly or personally criticize anybody at all, he only made a general observation about behaviour that some people were acting badly. Last time I checked, it was not at all against the rules to give similar opinions about MP's actions. There have sure been plenty enough threads to prove that. It's only the people who have overstepped to the point of addressing MP to directly dictate to him that seem to be getting any warning.

edit: Myung'd by bosk.

[TAC]

I see Bosk beat me to it. ..


...and Blob too.

[Bertielee]

And the rift goes on. I just can't believe that sort of discussion goes on and on. There are things that cannot be reconciled, don't try to. As I said earlier on in another post, some people just don't want to be convinced. Do I think MP acted in an awkward manne? I do. Did I make my point clear. I did. Now, please people, let's try not to turn every thread about MP either into a MP bash fest or a battle between DTForumers. Nothing good can come of it. And lately, I feel this place has become less friendly because of all those shinanigans. At the end of the day, if Mp's attitude bothers you too much, simple thing to do : don't post in a thread about him. It will save you a lot of trouble.

B.Lee

[TAC]

Bert, I don't think DTF has gotten less friendly, even with all the noobs and the MP.com folks relocating here.
What it seems to me is that on the subject of MP, people are definitely taking sides.

MP should be shown some due respect, and if MP is making himself available to us here, we should take advantage of it and offer some feedback. It just seems that armed with a keyboard, people feel like they can approach the line of decency, and even cross it.
We should spend our posts asking MP questions that we have instead of wasting space telling him what an asshole he's been.
I was fascinated by the "two moments of clarity". Remember it's HIS point of view. I would love to hear more. Not because I'm an MP butt kisser. It's because he's actually willing to discuss some of the behind the scenes stuff. As a fan of the BAND, when MP skeaks, I'm listening, but same goes for any other member of the band.

My only question is: Why wasn't MP posting here when he was IN the band?? He made a comment on the Score commentary that DT fans would not let them get away with doing a section like the Innocence Faded outro again..too Journeyish (I'm paraphrasing) and I thought, well if he had read DTF he would've known that that was not true. We love that part!

[Mat JB]

Yeah, it was a mistake for me to add fuel to the fire. Credit to Mike for saying lately that he wants to everyone to move on and focus positively on the future.

I hope the mystery bass player in the Sykes project is Tony Levin, that would rule.

[russellmania]

So why are posts like this, that are clearly defending Portnoy and criticizing those who criticize him allowed, but posts that criticize MP are not?  Seems like a double standard and this sort of post seems as inflammatory as one that takes a negative view of MP.  It's also unfair in the sense that anyone who tries to respond to a post like this one and explain why they are criticizing MP will be considered a troll.

What part of that post is a double standard? Cozmo didn't directly or personally criticize anybody at all, he only made a general observation about behaviour that some people were acting badly. Last time I checked, it was not at all against the rules to give similar opinions about MP's actions. There have sure been plenty enough threads to prove that. It's only the people who have overstepped to the point of addressing MP to directly dictate to him that seem to be getting any warning.

edit: Myung'd by bosk.

I just don't get why people are getting warnings and bans for responding directly to MP on a public forum that he himself has chosen to post on.  It only took about 3 replies to my post for someone to tell me "if you don't like it, don't post in an MP thread", but if someone tells MP to quit posting then it is an infraction.  I don't think MP deserves to get flamed, and I have nothing personal against the guy, but I also think he's only making things worse by his handling of things (particularly online) since the split and I don't see how it's a big deal to tell him so on a forum that he can easily ignore if he doesn't want to hear it. 

[snowdog]

Mike! You gotta start posting around the entire forum!

That would be a terrible idea.  This thread is proof of that.  At the very least people will pick apart what he says, and at worst they would take things out of context.  Mike needs to make fewer comments, not more.   Overall I have been very critical of Mike over the past year but recently he has been improving in what he says.

As for this episode, I watched it and didn't really take offense to what Mike said.  The marriage analogy came up yet again, but knowing it was 3 months ago I pretty much ignored that.  His comments on the IPOD thing and his circle of friends being different than DTs I felt was fine.  He was expressing issues that he felt were key factors to him not being happy in the band.  I know I have said similar things when I've talked with friends about why I ended up leaving a job or ended up breaking up with an ex-girlfriend. 

Now I do agree with others that as far as the IPOD thing, it should have been addressed with the individual.  However we don't have the details on that.  Was it discussed with them?  Was it something that could not be reconciled?  At the same time I am a bit introverted myself and there are days I just want to be left alone so I could potentially understand why the person might have just wanted to be left alone for the evening.

As for the lists of drummers, I am truly baffled how John Bonham was listed ahead of Peart.  Bonham is great, but I don't see him nearly anywhere near the caliber of Peart.  Also I know that they wanted to honor Mike in some fashion, but why was Mike even on that list?  On a Metal list yeah I'd put Mike up there.  But on what was supposed to be strictly "Hard Rock" - and that distinction was made clear numerous times - I don't think Mike should be there.

[russellmania]

Mike! You gotta start posting around the entire forum!

That would be a terrible idea.  This thread is proof of that.  At the very least people will pick apart what he says, and at worst they would take things out of context.  Mike needs to make fewer comments, not more.   Overall I have been very critical of Mike over the past year but recently he has been improving in what he says.

As for this episode, I watched it and didn't really take offense to what Mike said.  The marriage analogy came up yet again, but knowing it was 3 months ago I pretty much ignored that.  His comments on the IPOD thing and his circle of friends being different than DTs I felt was fine.  He was expressing issues that he felt were key factors to him not being happy in the band.  I know I have said similar things when I've talked with friends about why I ended up leaving a job or ended up breaking up with an ex-girlfriend. 

Now I do agree with others that as far as the IPOD thing, it should have been addressed with the individual.  However we don't have the details on that.  Was it discussed with them?  Was it something that could not be reconciled?  At the same time I am a bit introverted myself and there are days I just want to be left alone so I could potentially understand why the person might have just wanted to be left alone for the evening.

As for the lists of drummers, I am truly baffled how John Bonham was listed ahead of Peart.  Bonham is great, but I don't see him nearly anywhere near the caliber of Peart.  Also I know that they wanted to honor Mike in some fashion, but why was Mike even on that list?  On a Metal list yeah I'd put Mike up there.  But on what was supposed to be strictly "Hard Rock" - and that distinction was made clear numerous times - I don't think Mike should be there.

Actually I think he'd be a pretty awesome viewpoint to have in the General Music forum.  Seems to me people only get on his case w/r/t his DT opinions.

[bosk1]

My only question is: Why wasn't MP posting here when he was IN the band??

Excellent question.  And there are no doubt plenty of legitimate reasons why he may not have done so.  But as a busy dad and career person myself, it wouldn't surprise me if the answer simply boiled down to something along the lines of, "Just not enough hours in the day to do everything, and that's just one of those things that always seemed just low enough on the priority list below other fires that needed to be put out that I just never got around to it."  That may not seem satisfying to some fans, but is a perfectly legitimate reason.  Even though we are the biggest online DT community, we are one of many fan communities, so I can understand Mike and other band members not necessarily prioritizing visiting some or all of the fan communities out there.

That being said, however, when I first met Mike after a Transatlantic show and was introduced to him as the person responsible for running this site, he immediately let me know how genuinely hurt and upset he is over a lot of the stuff that gets written about him on online forums.  And I have to say that if Mike had actually taken the time to visit here and see how we handle that sort of thing, while he may not be happy about every opinion that is posted about him and his bands/projects, I'm sure he would have felt a lot less hurt and a lot more supported.  So there is definitely something to be said about taking a look at what is actually being said in a given place and taking the opportunity to discuss with those in charge about how it is run if there are concerns before jumping to conclusions.  But now I'm starting to go down a road I said I wouldn't go down, so I'll just leave it at that.

[vulcandj]

Even i do not agree with some of MP reactions, i do not see what he does/did to deserve so much hate. Even if he chose to leave DT, i can not even imagine how this feels after 25 years. How would you feel/react?

My sentiments, exactly. I enjoyed the interview. I've always felt that MP was very honest about things. I do think that Eddie could have asked some different questions, one of which could have been how he feels about MM replacing him (unless that hadn't been made public yet. Not sure of the timeline as I'm typing this). How MP is as a person I really can't say as I don't know him. As a musician and drummer, I have the utmost respect for him, and I wish him the best at whatever he does.

And how cool would it be if Billy Sheehan was the bass player along with him and Sykes.

[ZirconBlue]

I've always wondered why it takes major networks 1-3 weeks to upload a video of a show when it would take me all of 5 minutes. I know they're going to re-run it a few times, but given that most of the people who want to see this That Metal Show likely don't watch another single thing on VH1, why not just post it to the web already? 

That Metal Show episodes are usually posted a few DAYS after the original broadcast.

[TAC]

My only question is: Why wasn't MP posting here when he was IN the band??

Excellent question. 
That being said, however, when I first met Mike after a Transatlantic show and was introduced to him as the person responsible for running this site, he immediately let me know how genuinely hurt and upset he is over a lot of the stuff that gets written about him on online forums.  And I have to say that if Mike had actually taken the time to visit here and see how we handle that sort of thing, while he may not be happy about every opinion that is posted about him and his bands/projects, I'm sure he would have felt a lot less hurt and a lot more supported.  So there is definitely something to be said about taking a look at what is actually being said in a given place and taking the opportunity to discuss with those in charge about how it is run if there are concerns before jumping to conclusions.  But now I'm starting to go down a road I said I wouldn't go down, so I'll just leave it at that.

Reading the forums can definitely skew an opinion. Tonight, I'll be with 1500-2000 rabid DT fans from the Boston Area, and possibly 50 of them have even heard of this place, let alone the dozen or so that actually post here.

[ariich]

Please remember it's very easy to pass judgement on quotes being taken out of context or being paraphrased by somebody else....(which is what I'm seeing elsewhere in this thread)

So much this, and I was actually going to post something similar. I was getting one impression from reading the descriptions in this thread but when I actually watched a bit of the show it was nothing like that at all.

Anyone who thinks Mike was making a big deal about the iPod incident, you either haven't watched the show or you have a strange way of seeing things. It was clear to me that it was never a big deal, but rather it was one of those things that you notice and that flags something up to you. That sort of thing happens to me a lot - some kind of minor incident that you brush off but that puts a thought in your head, or makes you realise something that you hadn't really considered before. Surely everyone has experienced this at some point?

[Cranky]

Please remember it's very easy to pass judgement on quotes being taken out of context or being paraphrased by somebody else....(which is what I'm seeing elsewhere in this thread)

So much this, and I was actually going to post something similar. I was getting one impression from reading the descriptions in this thread but when I actually watched a bit of the show it was nothing like that at all.

Anyone who thinks Mike was making a big deal about the iPod incident, you either haven't watched the show or you have a strange way of seeing things. It was clear to me that it was never a big deal, but rather it was one of those things that you notice and that flags something up to you. That sort of thing happens to me a lot - some kind of minor incident that you brush off but that puts a thought in your head, or makes you realise something that you hadn't really considered before. Surely everyone has experienced this at some point?

Yeah, I didn't see that part of the show, so I was basing it on what I was reading here..
As I said, very bad choice on my part, I'm rather ashamed of myself, because I am usually so against not opening my mouth unless I know what actually happened.

[lithium112]

For those interested, the episode is now available at https://www.vh1.com/video/that-metal-show/full-episodes/mike-portnoy-john-sykes/1672249/playlist.jhtml

The star of the show is undoubtedly Bill Gates lol. Didn't know that guy was a metal-head.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Man... Trunk, Florentine and Jamieson are horrible. They're so bad.

[XB0BX]

What bad thing did MP say about JLB in the past year and a half?

[El JoNNo]

What bad thing did MP say about JLB in the past year and a half?

The only thing that i can think that can even come close was that he felt that if they were looking for a singer now that they would not choose someone like JLB. Which I find to be understandable, tastes change. JLB fits whatever niché they need but at first impression his voice doesn't fit the "heavy" sound that MP digs now.

[Cranky]

Okay, NOW  I saw the first half, and I am proud to say that I realize what Mike was talking about in his last forum post.

You really do have to watch the entire segment of him talking about Dream Theater to get that he isn't being a cry baby or over-reacting or anything like that. We just have to take into consideration that Mike is a human being, and even if he does say something a little controversial, just think to yourself, either this was taken out of context, or Mike is just acting and reacting naturally as any of us would in his situation.

There is a link right above me with the full episode, I highly suggest watching it if you haven't already, and are feeling a bit skeptical.

I'm saying right now that I refuse to take anything I read on Blabbermouth or any of the other music news websites to heart.
I'll wait to find out what was really going on for myself.

[ResultsMayVary]

I'm saying right now that I refuse to take anything I read on Blabbermouth or any of the other music news websites to heart.
I'll wait to find out what was really going on for myself.

That clip shouldn't have convinced you of that if you've followed the whole MP-DT situation. If so, you would have found that out months ago and I doubt any here actually believes what blabbermouth posts. Everything they post is either a quote taken out of context or a fabricated story.

[Cranky]

I'm saying right now that I refuse to take anything I read on Blabbermouth or any of the other music news websites to heart.
I'll wait to find out what was really going on for myself.

That clip shouldn't have convinced you of that if you've followed the whole MP-DT situation. If so, you would have found that out months ago and I doubt any here actually believes what blabbermouth posts. Everything they post is either a quote taken out of context or a fabricated story.

What clip?
And, I know, but sometimes it's hard not to get sucked in to some of the stories or headlines.

[hefdaddy42]

Watching it now, just saw the drummers list.

So far, the best thing about this episode is Tony McAlpine.   

[Perpetual Change]

I don't see why Blabbermouth are untrustworthy. They do a pretty decent job, I think. But I guess that's a thread for another time.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't see why Blabbermouth are untrustworthy. They do a pretty decent job, I think. But I guess that's a thread for another time.

It really is.

[fibreoptix]

D'oh, not available to UK users.

[Ħ]

Do we know which of the "wives" that MP fell out of love with?  Something tells me it's JMX and JLB.

[Shattered Glass]

Please remember it's very easy to pass judgement on quotes being taken out of context or being paraphrased by somebody else....(which is what I'm seeing elsewhere in this thread)

So much this, and I was actually going to post something similar. I was getting one impression from reading the descriptions in this thread but when I actually watched a bit of the show it was nothing like that at all.

Anyone who thinks Mike was making a big deal about the iPod incident, you either haven't watched the show or you have a strange way of seeing things. It was clear to me that it was never a big deal, but rather it was one of those things that you notice and that flags something up to you. That sort of thing happens to me a lot - some kind of minor incident that you brush off but that puts a thought in your head, or makes you realise something that you hadn't really considered before. Surely everyone has experienced this at some point?

Yeah, I didn't see that part of the show, so I was basing it on what I was reading here..
As I said, very bad choice on my part, I'm rather ashamed of myself, because I am usually so against not opening my mouth unless I know what actually happened.

Yeah, I posted too and I haven't seen it (and won't be able to until the weekend).  It was a really nice message from MP yesterday, and it was good to see him talking about how he still loves the band, and he was pretty forgiving of those who hadn't seen the interview.  From now on I'll try and be as defensive of him as the rest of the band but given the situation (i.e. I still find it hard to accept him not being in the band  ) sometimes its not easy.  Just though, when you hear a story like that, on a screen, it's hard to see how it could be said positively but I'll take your word for it.

[lucky7]

Still blocked for Australia.  Cool MP posted here.....