Is The Great Debate the biggest tease ever?

[gm5k]

Every time I listen to it, that is what I think.  The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes pretty ordinary, IMO.  Don't get me wrong, there are some great moments, but overall, the rest of the song is a big letdown after that incredible intro.  Anyone else feel this way?

YES

Agreed, outside of JP's solo which is pretty awesome 

[rumborak]

I never liked the lyrics of the song, in their desperate attempt to not take a stance either way. Also, terrible terrible song title.

rumborak

[BlobVanDam]

I never liked the lyrics of the song, in their desperate attempt to not take a stance either way. Also, terrible terrible song title.

rumborak

I don't mind the fact it doesn't take a stance, in fact I think it fits in well with how it's presented musically. But just the entire subject matter put me off the song for the longest time. It's really hard to headbang to music about stem cell research. Then again, I have no problem headbanging to a song about quitting alcohol only a few tracks before that.

And yes, it's a pretty bad song title. I think the original title was even worse though.

[Jirpo]

I'm the opposite lol, the middle is amazing but the bits with samples drag on for too long.

[kirksnosehair]

It's near the top of my all-time favorite Dream Theater songs 

[hefdaddy42]

Every time I listen to it, that is what I think.  The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes pretty ordinary, IMO.  Don't get me wrong, there are some great moments, but overall, the rest of the song is a big letdown after that incredible intro.  Anyone else feel this way?

Yes.  It's one reason I don't care for the song very much.

[MetropolisxPt1]

I like it but the intro is better then the rest of the song which makes it feel kind of long.

[OsMosis2259]

I never liked the lyrics of the song, in their desperate attempt to not take a stance either way. Also, terrible terrible song title.

rumborak

I don't mind the fact it doesn't take a stance, in fact I think it fits in well with how it's presented musically. But just the entire subject matter put me off the song for the longest time. It's really hard to headbang to music about stem cell research. Then again, I have no problem headbanging to a song about quitting alcohol only a few tracks before that.

And yes, it's a pretty bad song title. I think the original title was even worse though.

What was the original title?

[fibreoptix]

I never liked the lyrics of the song, in their desperate attempt to not take a stance either way. Also, terrible terrible song title.

rumborak

I don't mind the fact it doesn't take a stance, in fact I think it fits in well with how it's presented musically. But just the entire subject matter put me off the song for the longest time. It's really hard to headbang to music about stem cell research. Then again, I have no problem headbanging to a song about quitting alcohol only a few tracks before that.

And yes, it's a pretty bad song title. I think the original title was even worse though.

What was the original title?

Conflict at Ground Zero, wasn't it?

[OsMosis2259]

I never liked the lyrics of the song, in their desperate attempt to not take a stance either way. Also, terrible terrible song title.

rumborak

I don't mind the fact it doesn't take a stance, in fact I think it fits in well with how it's presented musically. But just the entire subject matter put me off the song for the longest time. It's really hard to headbang to music about stem cell research. Then again, I have no problem headbanging to a song about quitting alcohol only a few tracks before that.

And yes, it's a pretty bad song title. I think the original title was even worse though.

What was the original title?

Conflict at Ground Zero, wasn't it?

Yeah I remember that title now. I don't think it's that bad actually

[Jarlaxle]

I love this song, top 3 Dream Theater song for sure. And excellent live.

[SnakeEyes]

I don't agree.  I personally think that, before ADTOE, The Great Debate was DT's best song since SFAM.  That's just me....

[Sigz]

TGD is one of my favorite songs from Six Degrees, and I can't say I've ever felt like it was unresolved or anything.

[aXygnus]

I never liked the lyrics of the song, in their desperate attempt to not take a stance either way. Also, terrible terrible song title.

rumborak

I don't mind the fact it doesn't take a stance, in fact I think it fits in well with how it's presented musically. But just the entire subject matter put me off the song for the longest time. It's really hard to headbang to music about stem cell research. Then again, I have no problem headbanging to a song about quitting alcohol only a few tracks before that.

And yes, it's a pretty bad song title. I think the original title was even worse though.

What was the original title?

Conflict at Ground Zero, wasn't it?

Yeah I remember that title now. I don't think it's that bad actually

Might've been changed because of 9/11... But it's much better IMO.


Also, I find the "Are you justified?" part to be the climax, somewhat. I just like it way more than the rest of the song (other than the intro).

The outro is kinda out of place for me, though.

[theseoafs]

I wouldn't change a thing about The Great Debate. The samples would be a miss for me if it weren't for the immensely clever left-right thing.

[SuperTaco]

Such a unique and compelling song in my eyes. The way it sounds, the way it flows seems completely different from the rest of the album. It almost feels out of place in comparison with the rest of the disc, but that's also what makes it so great. It's refreshing, it never loses it's lustre at any point (for me anyway). I do understand how you feel about it losing a bit of steam after the big long intro, and perhaps that could have been done differently, but IMHO, what they gave us is an amazing track with some very good moments. It has a couple nuggetz too, and we all know how much this board loves nuggetz. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Actually, I think on the contrary, the intro to the song drags on way too long. I never liked any samples in DT, at least not over music... So when it gets to the actual point, that's the highlight of the song for me.

[nattmorker]

Well, for me it's my least favorite song of the entire DT catalog (well, maybe along with The one who helps to set the sun). I agree with the majority of opinions against it here: the intro drags too long, i feel like the song lacks punch.

I don't like songs where the intro is long and "slow", it's the reason why I don't like Trial of tears.

[Guitalguy]

For me it's almost the opposite. I love the core of the song, the middle part. But I think the sampling and introing is going on for to long. It's the chorus that makes me like this song.

[senecadawg2]

I'm actually not as fond of this song as most around here seem to be. I think its a tad overrated

[Jarlaxle]

I'm actually not as fond of this song as most around here seem to be. I think its a tad overrated

I think people that love this song such as myself are in the extreme minority here on these boards. Just what I have gathered.

[Obfuscation]

It's a great song, I don't really see the problem with it.

[setrataeso]

The song is amazing from beginning to end.

[1993ranger]

i think it must be played with the whole six degree of inner turbulance !

[lanemeyer]

Every time I listen to it, that is what I think.  The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes pretty ordinary, IMO.  Don't get me wrong, there are some great moments, but overall, the rest of the song is a big letdown after that incredible intro.  Anyone else feel this way?

This is exactly how I feel. I think the mediocre lyrics and vocal melodies are the main cause for me not really liking this song more, but I LOVE the soundscape they build with in the beginning of the song with the samples, keyboards, and bass.

[Zook]

It's a great song, I don't really see the problem with it.

[?]

It's a great song, I don't really see the problem with it.

[Dublagent66]

Great song.  It just has different phases that don't appeal to some people.

[moof]

I like it, though find it hard to rate it highly compared to other songs on SDOIT like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith tbh.

[Hprog]

I love the song and its different atmospheres, including the Megadethesque second chorus  Can't help headbanging when listening to it. I was delighted to hear it live last summer 

[GasparXR]

I feel that all of the song is full of great ideas, and it does something I just noticed while listening to it, that I haven't seen in any other song, or even DT song for that matter.

It has three distinct choruses. Well, it has three sections that have that chorus vibe. "Turn to the light", "Humankind has reached a turning point", and "Are you justified?". Wow. I don't know how they made it work, but they all have a different feel to them, all within one song. I mean, yes, we know they have a great understanding of music in many ways, but I love this song for that reason.

[LTE3]

I really love unconditionally the whole thing. Top 10 DT song for me. 

My sentiments exactly. It is a great song and I have only seen it live in 2002 so I can't wait for it. I have always thought is was one of MP's best drumming tunes and hope that MM stays true to his parts

[ariich]

Nope, it's one of my favourite DT songs, love it from start to finish. The atmosphere it creates is just amazing!

[Apricot]

It just occurred to me that this might be the only non-instrumental that doesn't have the song title in the lyrics...

[deslock]

Musically I like this song (it's got a very cool vibe), though I agree that the mid-section is weaker than the intro/ending.  And while the vocals are pretty good, the samples and lyrics are trite.

It is a great song and I have only seen it live in 2002 so I can't wait for it.

It was dropped after Oct 4th.  I wouldn't have minded hearing it live, but I'm much more excited that Outcry and Breaking All Illusions are being played in the same set.