NO Pending lawsuit between Mike Portnoy and Dream Theater

[Dublagent66]

I almost joined MP's forum.  Never happened.  I still don't get the victim mentality.  He made a choice.  How can someone be a victim by their own choice?  Sounds like some new paradigm called self inflicted victimization or something.  How does that work?    I made a choice once to leave a band because I didn't like the way things were going and I never looked back.  I know it doesn't compare to MP's situation but it's still based on the same principles.  Band members come and go all the time and no one member is greater than the sum of the whole.  That goes for any band.  I can't even begin to express how all of this has been such a letdown.  Makes me mad and sad. 

[gentaishinigami]

Hate to bump this thread, but MP's sister "Sam I Am" just posted this earlier on his forum.  Some pretty serious allegations there against DT by her so I thought it was worth posting here for people to see.  I swear this whole thing is like one giant soap opera with twist and turns everywhere.   

You know what.... This is what I will say, and I swear it's closed for discussion after this.  I CHOOSE to not go into details b/c I love and respect all members of DT including my brother.  But I am telling you truthfully that things did not happen the way "you" have imagined (as I have read in countless posts) nor did they happen in the TIME LINE that "you" all have suggested it did - in fact, things did not happen in the time line that DREAM THEATER SAID THEY DID.* 

Okay?  Maybe some day, if this nonsense really never stops (and it really feels like it won't), the Portnoy camp will share some emails that PROVE that what I am saying is true.  But for now, you'll just have to have faith that you should CHILL OUT, TRUST THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE STORY CORRECTLY and just enjoy both DT and MP for whatever music they put out for you. 

peace....

* Emphasis mine

Source:  https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2712124-p3.aspx

[Perpetual Change]

I thought that was interesting to. But, you know, I've always thought certain things didn't add up. So I wouldn't be surprised if some time from now we find out that Mike asked to be back in the band before DT had selected a new drummer, or something like that.

[millahh]

I thought that was interesting to. But, you know, I've always thought certain things didn't add up. So I wouldn't be surprised if some time from now we find out that Mike asked to be back in the band before DT had selected a new drummer, or something like that.

I've picked up on some stuff that seemed a bit inconsistent there, as well.  But...even if he said he wanted back in before they held the auditions, were they under any obligation to have him back?  I don't think that they really were.

[bosk1]

As always, there is more information we don't know than information we do.  We can guess forever about what specifically Sam was talking about, and whether she is correct.  We just don't know.  Of course, people will debate it because that's what people do.  I see little point in trying to figure it out because I don't think we'll ever have enough facts to do that.  And even if we did, does it matter?

I thought that was interesting to. But, you know, I've always thought certain things didn't add up. So I wouldn't be surprised if some time from now we find out that Mike asked to be back in the band before DT had selected a new drummer, or something like that.

This may or may not be what she was referring to.  But even if your guess is correct, I'm not sure it matters.  I know there's more to DT than just the business side.  But looking at it from a business perspective, when someone comes to you and says, "My heart just isn't in this and I don't want to do it anymore.  I'm quitting," and then they exit and you start making arrangements for their replacement, even if you haven't hired the next person, if they come back and say, "I've had a change of heart.  Even though I'm not really as into this as maybe I should be, maybe I should just come back," sometimes you just can't unring the bell.  Once you put it out there that you don't think you want to be in the relationship anymore, you're changing the dynamic of the relationship just by saying that.  So if the other side doesn't want to wind back the clock just because they don't think it's a good idea, whether they've formally hired the next person or not, I can understand that.  So, again, I'm not sure it changes anything, even if it is true.

[Liberation]

Well, seriously... At the moment I have no idea what to think about the whole situation. I'm completely confused. Anyone else feel the same?...

[BlobVanDam]

in fact, things did not happen in the time line that DREAM THEATER SAID THEY DID

I actually don't recall Dream Theater making enough reference to this to give any timeline. 
At this point I don't even care who said what or what happened. This is business stuff that is expected to me, and I don't care to label a "bad guy". Only MP's side is commenting on it, so we're only getting one side of the story here.

[CodyWanKenobi]

I'm telling you - things were NOT like this until A7X decided to go on without MP. I seem to remember about a month before they released their statement about how they didn't want it to be "Avenged Sevenfold with Mike Portnoy", MP was talking about how things were amazing and he was happy and how he had 'received the nicest email from John Petrucci' and bla bla bla. And then Avenged dumped him and the drama started...

On the other hand, I think that almost ALL of this shit that's going on is because of the DT fans who pestered MP about this every single day since he made his 'resignation' statement.. they really put him on the defensive, and I can see how that could cause him to direct his upset feelings toward DT. I mean, he's only a human.

[Riceball]

Don't want to flame (and this probably is flaming lol), but Mike and Sam seem to express themselves in very similar styles.

[theseoafs]

Well, seriously... At the moment I have no idea what to think about the whole situation. I'm completely confused. Anyone else feel the same?...

Basically this. Enough has happened and too little information has been given to us for us to reach anything resembling a conclusion at this point. At this point there is nothing that isn't conjecture, and it'll be that way for some time.

[gentaishinigami]

As always, there is more information we don't know than information we do.  We can guess forever about what specifically Sam was talking about, and whether she is correct.  We just don't know.  Of course, people will debate it because that's what people do.  I see little point in trying to figure it out because I don't think we'll ever have enough facts to do that.  And even if we did, does it matter?

I thought that was interesting to. But, you know, I've always thought certain things didn't add up. So I wouldn't be surprised if some time from now we find out that Mike asked to be back in the band before DT had selected a new drummer, or something like that.

This may or may not be what she was referring to.  But even if your guess is correct, I'm not sure it matters.  I know there's more to DT than just the business side.  But looking at it from a business perspective, when someone comes to you and says, "My heart just isn't in this and I don't want to do it anymore.  I'm quitting," and then they exit and you start making arrangements for their replacement, even if you haven't hired the next person, if they come back and say, "I've had a change of heart.  Even though I'm not really as into this as maybe I should be, maybe I should just come back," sometimes you just can't unring the bell.  Once you put it out there that you don't think you want to be in the relationship anymore, you're changing the dynamic of the relationship just by saying that.  So if the other side doesn't want to wind back the clock just because they don't think it's a good idea, whether they've formally hired the next person or not, I can understand that.  So, again, I'm not sure it changes anything, even if it is true.

Sorry Bosk, wasn't trying to stir the pot or anything, I just found it an interesting quote.  I agree with your post though and it's quite a difficult situation to be in when you are already trying to get the ball rolling on the replacement.  The biggest part perhaps of why they said no maybe is because he initially said his heart wasn't in it, and he said he was only coming back to shut the fans up.  Perhaps DT didn't feel this was the best way for MP to come back (or maybe he said some not-so-nice things when he left initially lol who knows).  IDK, just seems like he never actually wanted to go back he said he was just doing it to stop the drama and make the fans happy.  Then later though he goes on to act like he wanted back in the band real bad and all this so it's so confusing really! xD 

[ResultsMayVary]

MP needs to be right and I believe he will distort the facts in order to make himself look like the victim. Whether or not I think Sam is buying into this is something I'm not sure what you think about, honestly.

[Major Thirteenth]

I thought that was interesting to. But, you know, I've always thought certain things didn't add up. So I wouldn't be surprised if some time from now we find out that Mike asked to be back in the band before DT had selected a new drummer, or something like that.

Yes, but do you know that the chemistry completely sucked and it was time for Mike to go? Do you know he was so abrasive and so ornery that everyone was avoiding him? I had been to countless afterparties where JM wouldn't even come out of the tour bus because he just did not want to deal with him. He was a mega-crab and that went on for years. DT, aside from Mike, are basically "happy" guys. Getting a smile out of Mike was like pulling teeth for the last few years. So if Mike's sister wants to spin it like Mike was the victim, she's got it ass backwards. It was Mike who browbeat everyone around him, including techs and roadies (I could tell you a story or two...). He did not deal respectfully with people, he treated them like he was the Lord Marshall in Riddick. That gets real old. Real damn old. And once he was gone, the guys did not want him back, with or without a new drummer. We all have family members who we "love" on some level, but are happy to be rid of for the most part. That describes Mike at the end.

[Perpetual Change]

Yes, but do you know that the chemistry completely sucked and it was time for Mike to go? Do you know he was so abrasive and so ornery that everyone was avoiding him? I had been to countless afterparties where JM wouldn't even come out of the tour bus because he just did not want to deal with him. He was a mega-crab and that went on for years. DT, aside from Mike, are basically "happy" guys. Getting a smile out of Mike was like pulling teeth for the last few years. So if Mike's sister wants to spin it like Mike was the victim, she's got it ass backwards. It was Mike who browbeat everyone around him, including techs and roadies (I could tell you a story or two...). He did not deal respectfully with people, he treated them like he was the Lord Marshall in Riddick. That gets real old. Real damn old. And once he was gone, the guys did not want him back, with or without a new drummer. We all family members who we "love" on some level, but are happy to be rid of for the most part. That describes Mike at the end.

Dude, believe me; I believe you. You have been right about pretty much everything you've said over the last year and I will not question you on it. What you said about Mike being a crap has been repeated elsewhere: I remember awhile back a friend of Jordan Rudess posting about how Mike was in a really bad mood and blew him off when Jordan was taking him around backstage. The friend was apparently upset and Jordan apologized saying something like, "sorry, Mike's always like this now" the next day. This was all on that person's blog somewhere, I just don't remember where.

As far as DT not taking him back, it likely has more to do with what you said than them having found a new guy already, I think. After the initial shock, a ton of fans were incredibly positive after Mike left realizing that a lot of what they'd come to dislike about the band would be leaving with him. You've gotta wonder-- the other guys in DT probably had their own feelings about Mike, but it must have been really something for them to see everything they'd been thinking verified by the fans going nuts with optimism after he quit. The band may have been frustrated with Mike, but they could not have imagined that a lot of fans were, too, until after he left and it became more apparent.

[ResultsMayVary]

MP should have never quit. Reality hit him pretty hard when the DT guys didn't let him back in the band and I don't blame them. They are some of the most honest, real, and down to Earth people I have ever had the opportunity to meet (I have yet to meet the Genie). 

[farsight]

Did Mike ask to be back in the band before or after the contract with Avenged Sevenfold expired? I think that's the timeframe that MP ought to really clear out. He announced that the A7X contract expired on December 16, and December 20 and he said

"Fairly recently, I reached out to the guys to try and make amends and offered to reconcile for the sake of having peace back in our lives...(plus I know how much it meant to a lot of the fans...)"

Although I do not know what "fairly recently" means to Mike, but note that the auditions happened sometime in October.

[rumborak]

Did Mike ask to be back in the band before or after the contract with Avenged Sevenfold expired? I think that's the timeframe that MP ought to really clear out.

That is a peculiarity here I find. If he so strongly disagrees with the sequence of events as put forth by the fans, I would think clearing that up should be a cinch.
Unless of course that sequence is itself under legal dispute. Which then however means MP's version can't be trusted fully.

His sister's statements, I thought RMV had a point. It's likely she works off whatever MP told her about it. So, there's not much to learn really.

rumborak

[lordxizor]

Yes, but do you know that the chemistry completely sucked and it was time for Mike to go? Do you know he was so abrasive and so ornery that everyone was avoiding him? I had been to countless afterparties where JM wouldn't even come out of the tour bus because he just did not want to deal with him. He was a mega-crab and that went on for years. DT, aside from Mike, are basically "happy" guys. Getting a smile out of Mike was like pulling teeth for the last few years. So if Mike's sister wants to spin it like Mike was the victim, she's got it ass backwards. It was Mike who browbeat everyone around him, including techs and roadies (I could tell you a story or two...). He did not deal respectfully with people, he treated them like he was the Lord Marshall in Riddick. That gets real old. Real damn old. And once he was gone, the guys did not want him back, with or without a new drummer. We all family members who we "love" on some level, but are happy to be rid of for the most part. That describes Mike at the end.

If this is truely the case, I can completely understand why the band wanted to part ways. It very possible that in order to save their friendship wiht MP, the guys decided that they couldn't be around him everyday anymore. Too bad things blew up so much after the fact. I truely hope that MP can calm down, find some fulfilling work and move on from the DT mess. I'd love to hear a new LTE album or some other JP/MP project someday.

If it's true that DT is not being completely honest about the timeline of things, I can see the reason being that they don't want to say publicly, or even directly to MP, that they were tired of his antics and wanted him out of the band anyway. Him wanting a break was just a good excuse to push him out on his own. Obviously this is speculation, but it doesn't seem too farfetched.

[chknptpie]

MP is the new Shatner?

[johncal]

MP is the new Shatner?

Without Naomi Price MP can't compete.

[CodyWanKenobi]

MP is the new Shatner?

Without Naomi Price MP can't compete.

[ReaPsTA]

I have to ask what to me is an obvious question - if MP was becoming so hard to be around, why did this happen?  Based on how seemingly everyone he was close to outside DT has rallied around him, it's hard to believe that his life outside the band was deteriorating.  Did he just really grow apart from the other guys personally?  Was he that unsatisfied with the music?  I'm confused.

[ariich]

I have to ask what to me is an obvious question - if MP was becoming so hard to be around, why did this happen?  Based on how seemingly everyone he was close to outside DT has rallied around him, it's hard to believe that his life outside the band was deteriorating.  Did he just really grow apart from the other guys personally?  Was he that unsatisfied with the music?  I'm confused.

From everything he's said, it sounds like it was the personal relationships rather than the music. Which I can understand, when a band is together 25 years things can often get a bit stale on a personal level.

[Orbert]

It seems to me like the results of major stress.  Mike's obviously a very driven guy.  He doesn't have to do all those extra things he does, but he does, and he takes it seriously.  He doesn't have to come up with a different setlist every night, but he does.  And so on.  And whether or not it really makes any sense (to us anyway), he probably reached a point where he was just a wreck from doing so many things for DT, the fans, the side projects, and trying to actually have a life in there somewhere.  Justified or not, his relationships with the other members of DT must have sufferred because of this, and he probably didn't even realize it.  PC's anecdote sounds completely believeable, with Jordan apologizing and just saying "Mike's always like this now."

When he says he needed a break, I believe it.  He saw it as needing a break from DT, because at the time, he was looking at his upcoming schedule, thinking ahead to going back into the studio with DT.  The guy really does need to take a big step back and just breathe the air for a while.

[rumborak]

I have to ask what to me is an obvious question - if MP was becoming so hard to be around, why did this happen?  Based on how seemingly everyone he was close to outside DT has rallied around him, it's hard to believe that his life outside the band was deteriorating.

I think there's also the factor that interacting with MP in the DT universe is (well, was) very different from interacting with him on a friend or partner (or even side project) basis. I think his friends are rallying around him because he seems a pretty swell guy when not in business mode. But it just seems that, once MP locked onto something he views as his personal responsibility to function, he can become rather controlling and overbearing.
I think over the years he also seemed to have lost sight of the "costs" of his OCD. I had the impression he had shifted more and more towards seeing his OCD as an asset, almost something people should be appreciative about. Or that's at least the impression I had from interviews.

rumborak

[Cyclopssss]

I´m telling you, things like this are just heartbreaking to me.
I still think the world of MP, as of the other DT members. When MP left I was in a state of Shock for about 2 weeks, couldn´t believe it. But having been in a band for 10 years myself and analysing all the little things that happen between people when you´re this close for so long, I sort of do understand it.
Now with all the drama, I hope they can sort it out between themselves, and move on.

[Major Thirteenth]

I´m telling you, things like this are just heartbreaking to me.
I still think the world of MP, as of the other DT members. When MP left I was in a state of Shock for about 2 weeks, couldn´t believe it. But having been in a band for 10 years myself and analysing all the little things that happen between people when you´re this close for so long, I sort of do understand it.
Now with all the drama, I hope they can sort it out between themselves, and move on.

This can indeed happen, if someone we all know and love realizes that it is in his own self-interest not to damage the future of DT. Future sales generate past sales generate personal income. Get reasonable, put it to bed, move on. Things only stay messy as long as people want them that way. Or need them that way??

[Mbarak]

But it just seems that, once MP locked onto something he views as his personal responsibility to function, he can become rather controlling and overbearing.

rumborak

This is reminiscent of MP's work on OSI. I remember the "making of" videos of the first OSI album, when MP finished recording his drums he said to everyone "Thanks for your patience" to which Jim Matheos replied "thank you for your impatience" and everyone laughed. It sounded as only a joke at the time. Later MP described how he didn't wanna do any other albums with them because he couldn't contribute artistically and that it wasn't fun with KM.

I think that's the way he usually works, he must take it all in and put all himself in the project and make it his own. That's why I think the Adrenaline Mob case is interesting because MP came afterwards and the whole thing appealed to him. I'm really curious how the chemistry is going to be on the next AM recording sessions. That is IF we get any glimpse of it.

[DT2003]

My take on the whole situation.  Let me preface this by saying MP is a huge influence to me and he has been my favorite drummer since 1993 (when I first heard DT) and to be honest, he is a big reason why I love DT the way I do today, b/c of Mike and all he's done for the band and for the fans.  So here goes...

Mike did grow apart from the guys and was getting burnt out.  I believe that.  When he toured with Transatlantic and A7X, he felt new life.  He enjoyed playing to the large crowds with A7X and having the big production and was having a blast with the guys on the road.  I truly believe this is what pushed him over the edge in wanting an extended break and I believe MP liked the idea of possibly playing with A7X full time.  I'm not saying he would have necessarily "dumped" DT, but I believe he wanted to play with A7X full time.  I believe he honestly felt the guys in the band would be fine with taking an extended break, while he continued with his other projects.  Then when they said they didn't want a break as DT is their liveihood, he was hurt and insulted.  So he expects the four other guys in the band to basically stop doing what they love for an extended period of time, and then he gets hurt when they don't want to.  Seems kind of selfish to me.  Anyhow, after his announcement that he was leaving, he then said how he would stay with A7X throughout the 2011 and finish the touring cycle for "Nightmare".  The guys in A7X got sick of all the drama and were probably dealing with a lot of pissed off DT fans accusing them of stealing MP.  So they decided to part ways with Mike.  At that time, MP was probably thinking "what the heck did I do?".  So he came crawling back to DT (even though his heart was not in it).  The guys in DT had moved on and said no.  I'm pretty sure that all went down after DT had already picked Mike Mangini, but even if it hadn't, who cares?  Mike came to them and told him he didn't feel like his heart was in the band and that he wanted a LONG break.  When things didn't go his way with A7X he came back to them and I'm sure they knew his heart wasn't in it so to me regardless of the time line, they had every right to tell him no.  Unless he had went to them before A7X dismissed him, although I don't believe that to be the case.

As I said MP has been my favorite drummer since 1993.  I have followed and supported him through all that time.  And while I don't believe in "idols", he is as close to having one as I have ever come.  Things that have happened over the past few months have made me lose A LOT of respect for him.  I read something posted on his forum earlier this week that was quickly deleted but it was pretty much the last straw for me.  It made me basically lose the remaining respect that I had for him and that kills me b/c I have looked up to this guy for many years.  But I'm sick of him playing the victim with this whole thing, when he is the one that caused it all.

[Madman Shepherd]

When Sam posted over on the MP board, I could not resist replying.  I was respectful for the most part but posted a rather strongly worded reply about Mike always playing the victim and what he had done about deleting posts about James when he believed a quote from Blabbermouth, which he is always saying people shouldn't believe. 

Sam responded to me very politely and said she is not always happy with how Mike conducts himself and she gives him an earful when she disagrees with what hes done.  It was vague but I almost think she might have been referring to the James thing.  She might have been referencing the I&W "desperately recreating the past" thing that I also referenced. 

Anyway, she basically said she wasn't referencing that stuff, more the half-truths or lies people were posting and that she respects my opinion.  I thought it was really cool and level headed of her.  Still don't agree with most of what she wrote. 

She was basically saying there were emails to prove their side and she actually posted a bigass post maybe 5 months ago that she asked Wey to delete (and surprisingly was never picked up by Blabbermouth). 

If Mike did ask to join before the decision to hire Mangini was made, how could he really know that they already hadn't made the decision and were too far involved to go back.  Maybe they hadn't completely offered it...maybe they did but no contracts were signed.  I dunno...we will never know. 

I just wish MP would post more level headed like his sister did.  She even admitted the new DT album sounds great and that it kinda proved that they did need a change.  I can't blame her if she doesn't listen to it but it was cool she admitted it was at least well done. 

Made me feel nostalgic for Portnoy because he was a main reason I am the DT fan I am today.  I started posting on that board because he posted there and even responded to one or two of my posts (mostly about Ytsejam Records which I LOVE). 

But as it stands, like many have said, there is no way Portnoy is returning unless Mangini has something happen beyond his control like an injury, which I hope to god doesn't happen. 

[1993ranger]

maybe portnoy trying to give petrucci a taste of his own medicine.

[johncal]

maybe portnoy trying to give petrucci a taste of his own medicine.

HUH?

[Bertielee]

maybe portnoy trying to give petrucci a taste of his own medicine.

HUH?

[j]

Don't want to flame (and this probably is flaming lol), but Mike and Sam seem to express themselves in very similar styles.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.  All the ellipsis, liberal use of caps for emphasis, etc.

-J

[CodyWanKenobi]

Don't want to flame (and this probably is flaming lol), but Mike and Sam seem to express themselves in very similar styles.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.  All the ellipsis, liberal use of caps for emphasis, etc.

-J

omg, so Mike's a... girl?

jk