Bad vocal editing in Beneath the Surface.

[FlashCE]

0:50 - 0:51

When James sings "consumed", the two syllables are obviously from different takes.

No big deal, I just like finding tiny mistakes

[BlobVanDam]

You do enjoy finding editing mistakes, don't you?

It doesn't sound like editing to me. The stop between the syllables just sounds like the natural singing to me. The "n" sound is sort of difficult/impossible to hear, so I can hear what you're referring to, but I think that's just how he's singing it. It doesn't have a break in tone or dynamics that would be a mark of different takes to me.

Without hearing an isolated vocal, it's hard to know for sure, but after repeated listens, it sounds normal to me.

Keep digging though. I enjoy these. There are a couple of background noises/squeaks in other songs you haven't found/mentioned yet.

[theseoafs]

The autotune is far more egregious than any of this song's vocal editing.

[bss4life15]

The autotune is far more egregious than any of this song's vocal editing.

I don't hear any autotune in the song, even when i try to find it.  Even if there is, the singing is still amazing.  This Is The Life's last few lines are an example of to much, even if there is autotune in this song it's not that much and there is no reason to start complaining about it.

[BlobVanDam]

The autotune is far more egregious than any of this song's vocal editing.

Yeah. I don't like to nitpick, but the autotune on that track kills it for me. I can't not hear it. 
If his vocals on BTS sounded more like FFH, it would be perfect. Can't wait to hear a live version though.

[Lowdz]

I don't hear the autotune. There's a natural phase effect with James doubling himself, but I don't hear T-Pain/Will.I.am style fx anywhere. Try the new Alice Cooper- it's all over that.

[Adami]

The editing is fine. They didn't split up the word in different takes. Did you listen to the album with a notepad just jotting down every thing you think was off? Sounds like an awful way to listen to a CD.

[VioletS16]

The editing is fine. They didn't split up the word in different takes. Did you listen to the album with a notepad just jotting down every thing you think was off? Sounds like an awful way to listen to a CD.

[ddtonfire]

Seriously? Why would they splice two takes for a single word? Especially when James did it on his own time in Canada? If it was a poor take, you actually think they wouldn't do it again? If the "cons" was bad and "umed" was good, he'd recrecord "cons"? Wow.

[Adami]

I'll admit during my years as a audio engineer, I've done some really crazy forms of editing. However they were always to save the band time and money from having to re-record something. Yet in all of that time, I have never used two takes of one word spliced together.

Why? Because people don't do that.

[OsMosis2259]

Sounds fine to me

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't think it was an edit.

And can some point to specific autotune examples because I can't find any

[Adami]

I don't think it was an edit.

And can some point to specific autotune examples because I can't find any

There's a few but I'm too lazy to look for time stamps. But you know what? Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the song and don't worry about stupid things like that.

[FlashCE]

I record my own music so I'm very interested in the production side of things. It's not like I actively look out for these things. It's just that they sound off to me so I thought I'd mention it. No need to damage control for James, jeez. I'm not even trying to be negative.

I don't have an ear for autotune. Someone mention a few examples please?

[ariich]

I haven't noticed any specific auto-tune moments, so am content that it's only used moderately, which is the same as pretty much all bands.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't think it was an edit.

And can some point to specific autotune examples because I can't find any

There's a few but I'm too lazy to look for time stamps. But you know what? Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the song and don't worry about stupid things like that.

Oh I have been...I just keep hearing this repeated over and over and I'm really wondering if its as apparent as a lot of people thing it is.

Thats why I cringed when JLB admitted he used autotune occasionally because I knew people would overdue it and start claiming they heard it when they probably couldn't tell the difference otherwise.

[E.S.]

Make no mistake, vocal edits are used on everything today. It's common practice to do 4-5 takes, then compile it into one track with the best parts from each take, and then use Melodyne (autotune is a thing of the past, because of how noticable it is) to fix those tiny pitch and timing issues, especially when harmonies are involved. There are usually more edits than people think, and that's because a skilled engineer can make it sound completely natural, if the vocal is good enough in the first place. I see no problem with fixing a note if the take had the perfect energy and attitude, but one note was slightly off. No big deal, everyone does it.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think it was an edit.

And can some point to specific autotune examples because I can't find any

There's a few but I'm too lazy to look for time stamps. But you know what? Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the song and don't worry about stupid things like that.

Oh I have been...I just keep hearing this repeated over and over and I'm really wondering if its as apparent as a lot of people thing it is.

Thats why I cringed when JLB admitted he used autotune occasionally because I knew people would overdue it and start claiming they heard it when they probably couldn't tell the difference otherwise.

For the record, out of the ~100 DT songs, this and Wither and the only songs where the pitch correction is even noticeable unless I'm actively listening for it (which means it's extremely minor and totally a non issue), and even Wither isn't actually that bad once you're used to it. So out of every single DT song, this is the only one that really bothers me.

JLB doesn't need to tell me he uses autotune for me to "claim" I hear it on this song. It's overdone to the point that I have trouble listening to it (ugh, I hate to say such overdramatic things, but it's actually true here). Have we gotten to the point where autotune has to be to Cher levels before anyone notices anymore?

Just to clarify though, I have no issue with pitch correction. 99.999% of albums use it, and when used subtly, is fine and dandy by me. This is the only time where I think it took the bite out of an otherwise great JLB vocal performance.

Sorry if I come across as an elitist jerk there. Tried my best not to, but kind of did.   

[Orion1967]

The editing is fine. They didn't split up the word in different takes. Did you listen to the album with a notepad just jotting down every thing you think was off? Sounds like an awful way to listen to a CD.

This

[Infinite Cactus]

Make no mistake, vocal edits are used on everything today. It's common practice to do 4-5 takes, then compile it into one track with the best parts from each take, and then use Melodyne (autotune is a thing of the past, because of how noticable it is) to fix those tiny pitch and timing issues, especially when harmonies are involved. There are usually more edits than people think, and that's because a skilled engineer can make it sound completely natural, if the vocal is good enough in the first place. I see no problem with fixing a note if the take had the perfect energy and attitude, but one note was slightly off. No big deal, everyone does it.

Pretty much this

[pmahoney1337]

There is definitely something fishy about these vocals, same goes for Far From Heaven. Every time he holds a note it is just painfully obvious. The pitch is just too perfect, it doesn't sound natural.

I don't think it was an edit.

And can some point to specific autotune examples because I can't find any

There's a few but I'm too lazy to look for time stamps. But you know what? Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the song and don't worry about stupid things like that.

Oh I have been...I just keep hearing this repeated over and over and I'm really wondering if its as apparent as a lot of people thing it is.

Thats why I cringed when JLB admitted he used autotune occasionally because I knew people would overdue it and start claiming they heard it when they probably couldn't tell the difference otherwise.

For the record, out of the ~100 DT songs, this and Wither and the only songs where the pitch correction is even noticeable unless I'm actively listening for it (which means it's extremely minor and totally a non issue), and even Wither isn't actually that bad once you're used to it. So out of every single DT song, this is the only one that really bothers me.

JLB doesn't need to tell me he uses autotune for me to "claim" I hear it on this song. It's overdone to the point that I have trouble listening to it (ugh, I hate to say such overdramatic things, but it's actually true here). Have we gotten to the point where autotune has to be to Cher levels before anyone notices anymore?

Just to clarify though, I have no issue with pitch correction. 99.999% of albums use it, and when used subtly, is fine and dandy by me. This is the only time where I think it took the bite out of an otherwise great JLB vocal performance.

Sorry if I come across as an elitist jerk there. Tried my best not to, but kind of did.   

I agree.

[Priest of Syrinx]

What's going to happen when people find out that guitars are messed with, too? 

[Peter Griffin]

they also edited out the drums.

but yea, i heard the autotune upon the first listen (i.e. the "knewwww" at 2:20 drags a smidge too long), but it doesn't detract from an otherwise amazing song.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't think it was an edit.

And can some point to specific autotune examples because I can't find any

There's a few but I'm too lazy to look for time stamps. But you know what? Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the song and don't worry about stupid things like that.

Oh I have been...I just keep hearing this repeated over and over and I'm really wondering if its as apparent as a lot of people thing it is.

Thats why I cringed when JLB admitted he used autotune occasionally because I knew people would overdue it and start claiming they heard it when they probably couldn't tell the difference otherwise.

For the record, out of the ~100 DT songs, this and Wither and the only songs where the pitch correction is even noticeable unless I'm actively listening for it (which means it's extremely minor and totally a non issue), and even Wither isn't actually that bad once you're used to it. So out of every single DT song, this is the only one that really bothers me.

JLB doesn't need to tell me he uses autotune for me to "claim" I hear it on this song. It's overdone to the point that I have trouble listening to it (ugh, I hate to say such overdramatic things, but it's actually true here). Have we gotten to the point where autotune has to be to Cher levels before anyone notices anymore?

Just to clarify though, I have no issue with pitch correction. 99.999% of albums use it, and when used subtly, is fine and dandy by me. This is the only time where I think it took the bite out of an otherwise great JLB vocal performance.

Sorry if I come across as an elitist jerk there. Tried my best not to, but kind of did.   

Dood, examples please...I'm not challenging you, I am basically just asking so I can hear and learn. 

[BlobVanDam]

Dood, examples please...I'm not challenging you, I am basically just asking so I can hear and learn. 

Ok, I just gave it a listen and noted down the few that bother me a bit. Note - the thing that makes pitch correction sound obvious is not that the notes are on pitch. It's the way it "slides" between notes so smoothly and quickly that makes it sound artificial. So in all of these cases, listen to the way the voice goes from one note to another note.

0:28 - The entire first line, especially in the middle of the word "ever", the middle of "really", and the note slide inbetween those two words.
0:43 - middle of the word "stars" - minor third interval, really quick. Sounds unnatural.
1:35 - Middle of the words "never" and "went"
4:04 - I recall there is a little pitch correction blip here on the upper harmony, but only my left headphone is working right now, so I can't hear it at the moment.
4:50 - the little melody on "remained" doesn't even sound human, and it's the one that bugs me the most, especially the last note drop at the end of the word. It goes down a minor third ridiculously quick at the end.

You may listen to some of these and think "oh I guess when you point it out and I listen closely I can sorta hear what you mean", or you may listen and think "that just sounds like good singing to me, I'm not hearing an issue".

[FlashCE]

God, people are taking this thread completely the wrong way. I'm not nitpicking. I'm not criticising. I understand that edits are commonplace in music. I just like identifying them because it's cool to notice "in-studio" kind of stuff.

[Shadow2222]

God, people are taking this thread completely the wrong way. I'm not nitpicking. I'm not criticising. I understand that edits are commonplace in music. I just like identifying them because it's cool to notice "in-studio" kind of stuff.

Thread title: BAD vocal editing in Beneath the Surface 

I listened to the examples Blob gave and do believe he is right, but it certainly doesn't take away from the song.

[Adami]

God, people are taking this thread completely the wrong way. I'm not nitpicking. I'm not criticising. I understand that edits are commonplace in music. I just like identifying them because it's cool to notice "in-studio" kind of stuff.

Yes, but that wasn't an edit. There's no logical reason to do what you claim they did. None at all.

[Millais]

meh i can't see the "bad" vocal editing @ 0:50-0:51 - not at all. sounds completely natural to me 

[kijuer]

Dood, examples please...I'm not challenging you, I am basically just asking so I can hear and learn. 

Ok, I just gave it a listen and noted down the few that bother me a bit. Note - the thing that makes pitch correction sound obvious is not that the notes are on pitch. It's the way it "slides" between notes so smoothly and quickly that makes it sound artificial. So in all of these cases, listen to the way the voice goes from one note to another note.

0:28 - The entire first line, especially in the middle of the word "ever", the middle of "really", and the note slide inbetween those two words.
0:43 - middle of the word "stars" - minor third interval, really quick. Sounds unnatural.
1:35 - Middle of the words "never" and "went"
4:04 - I recall there is a little pitch correction blip here on the upper harmony, but only my left headphone is working right now, so I can't hear it at the moment.
4:50 - the little melody on "remained" doesn't even sound human, and it's the one that bugs me the most, especially the last note drop at the end of the word. It goes down a minor third ridiculously quick at the end.

You may listen to some of these and think "oh I guess when you point it out and I listen closely I can sorta hear what you mean", or you may listen and think "that just sounds like good singing to me, I'm not hearing an issue".

4:42 "And the darkness TURNED to pain....that is OUT OF tune LOL...somebody forgot to correct it reLOL

[Priest of Syrinx]

4:42 "And the darkness TURNED to pain....that is OUT OF tune LOL...somebody forgot to correct it reLOL

Pretty clear that was intentional.

[snowdog]

Dood, examples please...I'm not challenging you, I am basically just asking so I can hear and learn. 

Ok, I just gave it a listen and noted down the few that bother me a bit. Note - the thing that makes pitch correction sound obvious is not that the notes are on pitch. It's the way it "slides" between notes so smoothly and quickly that makes it sound artificial. So in all of these cases, listen to the way the voice goes from one note to another note.

0:28 - The entire first line, especially in the middle of the word "ever", the middle of "really", and the note slide inbetween those two words.
0:43 - middle of the word "stars" - minor third interval, really quick. Sounds unnatural.
1:35 - Middle of the words "never" and "went"
4:04 - I recall there is a little pitch correction blip here on the upper harmony, but only my left headphone is working right now, so I can't hear it at the moment.
4:50 - the little melody on "remained" doesn't even sound human, and it's the one that bugs me the most, especially the last note drop at the end of the word. It goes down a minor third ridiculously quick at the end.

You may listen to some of these and think "oh I guess when you point it out and I listen closely I can sorta hear what you mean", or you may listen and think "that just sounds like good singing to me, I'm not hearing an issue".

I'm just not hearing any issues at the points you've indicated.  I've been very critical of LaBrie's vocals in the past.  But that is primarily of his ability to hit the right note in a live setting and his inability to enunciate properly on some of the studio stuff.  But his voice is actually good, especially in a controlled setting.  Maybe it's because I've never worked with these tools that adjust the pitch, but I just don't hear anything that sounds "unnatural" here.

[Kotowboy]

  Major studio releases have auto-tune on.

This is nothing new or a surprise.

It's on most rock records.

Get used to it.

It's like complaining about EQ or limiting or Hi Pass Filters or Gates or Reverbs or Compression or Multi-tracking.

[ddtonfire]

Yeah, that stupid multitracking. Bands should ONLY record what they can PERFORM LIVE.

[Kotowboy]

Not sure if SRS but I'm totally cool with overdubs in the Studio to produce a piece of art.