Discuss everything about Mike Mangini's ADTOE performance

[KevShmev]

I think it goes without saying that we need a thread solely dedicated to Mangini's performance, him being the new guy in the band, right?  RIGHT?

[Super Dude]

Not really responding because I haven't gone to pick up my copy yet, just saving a seat, so to speak.

[Nihil-Morari]

He's done a good job. His sound is awesome, although his 'signature hi-hat sound' sometimes bugs me a bit. That's a big leap from MP's sound.

Other than that, maybe it's only in my mind, but I think you can hear that he didn't write the music. It's not totally what I expected from him. It's MM playing DT, which was to be expected.
But I'm interested to hear what he can add in the writing on the next album, or perhaps even in the arranging during the tour.

[Knguro]

Officially I'm a fangini.

[Infinite Cactus]

I really enjoy his performance. I love when he enters on LNF. I think its cool that he didn't go bananas-crazy the whole time. It's a very dynamic performance.

[BlobVanDam]

I can't fault his playing, but I think the weak drum mix robs him a bit of the credit he probably deserves with his playing. He has some great fast tom rolls that can be hard to hear unless you're listening for them.

Even though it's one of the simple songs on the album for him, I like him drumming on BMUBMD. It's simple, but it's tight and it's good a solid feel to it, and it's more prominent than on the other tracks. And I love the snare fill during the chorus that ends on the 2/8 and not the 1. It's simple, but really effective.

For the same reason I really like his drumming on TITL. Being a lighter song, his drums aren't as buried, and you can appreciate how well he fills the role even when he's not being flashy.

[Nihil-Morari]

Exactly Blob, things like putting a snare behind the beat are things that make the drumming on this album.
And the mix, well, yeah, it's very 'in your face', but mostly that's just the basics (kick, snare, hihat, main crashes), instead of having a drum roll that goes through your chest.
Although I have to say I love that low floortom and that biggest bass drum!

[tri.ad]

The drums' mix, particularly the snare's, is a bit too quiet for my taste. But from what I can tell, he definitely does a very solid job; I especially like his sense of dynamics in This Is The Life and Breaking All Illusions; also, the band sounds extremely tight and with a nice groove going on all the way, which is at least partially his doing.

But yeah, you can hear that the core of the drum beats wasn't written by him, but by JP, who seems to have been influenced by MP's drumming (and frankly, he can't be faulted for that). Obviously, some use this to criticise him, but since the backstory is well-known, MM shouldn't be judged solely by that.

All in all, it's a very good performance by MM, and he complements DT's sound really nicely.

[7StringedBeast]

I love the drum mix on this album.  Everything is heard clearly without having it be the loudest damn thing in the mix.  MPs drums were usually mixed way too loud and it covered up all the other instruments.  Now I can actually hear all the instruments breathe because the drums aren't all the way up front.  I appreciate where the drums sit on this album.  The playing compliments the music very well. 

I just can't believe any drum can play along to some of the instrumentals on this album hahaha.

[Orion1967]

The man is a machine!  Completely.   Like a damn metronome.   The drumming is phenominal imho.

[The Letter M]

The album needed more cowbell.

Just saying.



-Marc.

[TAC]

Just saying that I loved MP's playing and showmanship BUT:
Where MP inspired you to pick up drumsticks, MM inspires you to simply put them back down and sit in awe.

[ronrule]

Overall I really like it! The bag of tricks had gotten pretty picked over in the last few albums and its nice to hear some new ideas.

Some nitpicks though:

The hi-hats. Don't care for their sound and they are used too frequently and too boringly. There are several points in the album where I'm thinking (though I'm not a drummer), "shouldn't there be some ride here instead of hats?" or "couldn't he be a little more adventurous with the cymbals"?

Supporting Drum parts vs. Lead Drum Parts. Mangini is almost like the JMX of drums on this album. He generally plays a supporting role but with moments to shine. I would like to hear some more "lead drumming" from Mangini. Part of what makes I&W great is the *lack* of unison in so many parts. Everyone is playing "lead" yet it is still cohesive and sounds like a song. When unison is used in that context, it provides another layer of dynamics for a song to utilize.

[Montsegur97]

His drumming is definitely amazing, but I'll be curious to see how he does on the next album with far more input.  Only other complaint and everything does sound a bit too quiet or dull, hard to describe.  It feels at times I can hardly hear the bass drum or snare.

[Ultimetalhead]

I agree he plays more of a backseat role, but I think it has to do with JP writing the drum parts. Next album will be much more free for Mangini to take over the position of "lead drummer".

[Nic35]

Dynamics.


Enough said.

[Knguro]

The album needed more cowbell.

Just saying.



-Marc.

Cowbells are for cows. Mangini is a god. Just saying...

[7StringedBeast]

His drumming is definitely amazing, but I'll be curious to see how he does on the next album with far more input.  Only other complaint and everything does sound a bit too quiet or dull, hard to describe.  It feels at times I can hardly hear the bass drum or snare.

Get the earwax out of your ear then lol jk.  The drums are clearly audible though.  Nothing wrong with that drum mix.

[reneranucci]

There are 2 issues that don't allow me to completely enjoy his performance:

1. Definite problems with the drum mix.
2. He didn't participate in the writing of the material, and that definitely affects his playing.

Of course he does a great job with the material he was given, but I wouldn't call his performance stellar or mindblowing. But he's solid and has an amazing moment on almost every song.

[Montsegur97]

His drumming is definitely amazing, but I'll be curious to see how he does on the next album with far more input.  Only other complaint and everything does sound a bit too quiet or dull, hard to describe.  It feels at times I can hardly hear the bass drum or snare.

Get the earwax out of your ear then lol jk.  The drums are clearly audible though.  Nothing wrong with that drum mix.

Hah, I agree they're audible, I guess it was a poor choice of words, sounds muffled might be more what I'm looking for. 

[KevShmev]

I think the mix will take some getting used to.  I mean, we are so used to having the drums very high up in the mix, that having them now in a normal range is something we all have to get used to.  I agree that there are a few moments where I wish they were higher up in the mix, like when doing a drum roll or hitting the toms, but overall, the level they are at is just fine, albeit different for DT. 

[BlobVanDam]

I think the mix will take some getting used to.  I mean, we are so used to having the drums very high up in the mix, that having them now in a normal range is something we all have to get used to.  I agree that there are a few moments where I wish they were higher up in the mix, like when doing a drum roll or hitting the toms, but overall, the level they are at is just fine, albeit different for DT. 

I think the mix is fine for the general stuff, but because there are more dynamics in the drums rather than being more compressed, the nuances get lost. So you can hear him pounding out a beat at a level that's just fine, but occasionally I've found myself sort of half missing a cool fill because it disappears into the background a bit, especially the really crazy fast stuff where he perhaps can't hit as hard as a regular beat.
So the dynamics of the drums are a bit of a double edged sword, I think.

[Chrissalix]

Dynamics.


Enough said.

This. Mangini can go loco like MP did with the fast fills (end of bridges in the sky, DAT MACHINEGUN IMPRESSION) but the polyrhythms in there are something new to DT. Check Outcry and even OTBOA for some examples of that. Give me this over lead drums any day of the week.

[The Silent Cody]

I think that his play is so dynamic... it's very solid. BUT! I feel lack of typical Portnoy's play somewhere. I mean, it's normal but for me it's equal - Mangini has brought some new great things, like polirythmics, but Portnoy took away his sound, that is my opinion.

[AngelBack]

I just wish he had played "lead" drums, maybe they would have been more prominent in the mix. 

[7StringedBeast]

Drums are not a lead instrument, nor should they try to be.

[AngelBack]

Was a reference to a previous thread....

[Robber Soul]

I miss Portnoy's little splash/stack cymbal embellishments throughout the album, plus (despite being a beautiful song) Beneath The Surface needs drums on it badly.  I can hear what Portnoy would have played in my head.

[Mladen]

Mangini did an incredible job, his playing is amazing, there are some cool details going on. Although I gotta say, he didn't go too wild and experimental with his playing as I kinda expected - but then again, do we really want that? He's an excellent drummer that blends perfectly with the rest of the band, he's not trying to be dominant or in the centre of attention - he's just there, doing his job, and doing it with such a class and attitude. Great stuff, really. Great stuff.

[InertSolo]

Understandably, while his playing is incredibly technical it just didn't sound as good as I was hoping. He has a lot to live up to when it comes to filling in Mike Portnoy's spot so I can see why he'd chose to play it safe on this album as to sort of respect the sound they already have in place. Next time around though, I'm eager to hear the results of everyone in the studio and having Mangini create parts from scratch.

[MarlaHooch]

FROM WHAT I CAN HEAR (wink wink to Andy Wallace/whoever else contributed to the mix...), he sounds fantastic.

I wish DT would have allowed him to be involved in the writing process as I believe he only could have helped and it would have made this a true "new band/new beginning" effort.  I'm pretty sure from what I gather in interviews that 80-90% of what he's playing is what he was told to play.  Nevertheless, he does a great job.

[DP_Gumby]

Dunno if this has been posted elsewhere on the forum, but it may clear out something regarding Mangini's performance on ADTOE: https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/dream-theaters-mike-mangini-on-drumming-with-prog-metals-kings-496667

[njdtfan]

I think the mix will take some getting used to.  I mean, we are so used to having the drums very high up in the mix, that having them now in a normal range is something we all have to get used to.  I agree that there are a few moments where I wish they were higher up in the mix, like when doing a drum roll or hitting the toms, but overall, the level they are at is just fine, albeit different for DT. 

I think the mix is fine for the general stuff, but because there are more dynamics in the drums rather than being more compressed, the nuances get lost. So you can hear him pounding out a beat at a level that's just fine, but occasionally I've found myself sort of half missing a cool fill because it disappears into the background a bit, especially the really crazy fast stuff where he perhaps can't hit as hard as a regular beat.
So the dynamics of the drums are a bit of a double edged sword, I think.

that

[ronrule]

Although I gotta say, he didn't go too wild and experimental with his playing as I kinda expected - but then again, do we really want that?

Yeah, I wish he would've gone a more wild and experimental as long as it was also good. Some of us had concerns about his compositional ability when he was chosen. And because we don't know who wrote what drum-wise on this album, its still hard to judge.

IMO, on the best DT recordings, every instrument draws attention to itself even though there is some give and take between who is supporting and who is leading.

ADTOE has two drumming modes: straight-ahead grooves and crazy polyrhythmic unisons. Personally, I don't care much for straight-ahead grooves in prog. I like every instrument to be doing something musically interesting all the time. And while the polyrhythmic unisons are certainly impressive, I'm not sure they add much to a prog drum composition because it's still just following someone else's parts.

And this definitely isn't a "be more like MP!" thing for me, as it is "be more like Zoltan Csörsz!"

[snapple]

There are 2 issues that don't allow me to completely enjoy his performance:

1. Definite problems with the drum mix.
2. He didn't participate in the writing of the material, and that definitely affects his playing.

Of course he does a great job with the material he was given, but I wouldn't call his performance stellar or mindblowing. But he's solid and has an amazing moment on almost every song.