Discuss everything about Mike Mangini's ADTOE performance

[MetropolisxPt1]

He's done a good job. His sound is awesome, although his 'signature hi-hat sound' sometimes bugs me a bit. That's a big leap from MP's sound.

Other than that, maybe it's only in my mind, but I think you can hear that he didn't write the music. It's not totally what I expected from him. It's MM playing DT, which was to be expected.
But I'm interested to hear what he can add in the writing on the next album, or perhaps even in the arranging during the tour.

Im very interested to see what he will do on the nenxt album because i agree that its pretty obvious that he didn't write most of those parts however the polyrythms in BAI at 2:24 are great.

[ronrule]

Do we have confirmation from JP that MM will definitely be in the writing sessions for the next album? All I thought we have is MM saying they've been jamming/writing during rehearsals, which doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, IMO.

[chwik]

He's done a good job. His sound is awesome, although his 'signature hi-hat sound' sometimes bugs me a bit. That's a big leap from MP's sound.

Other than that, maybe it's only in my mind, but I think you can hear that he didn't write the music. It's not totally what I expected from him. It's MM playing DT, which was to be expected.
But I'm interested to hear what he can add in the writing on the next album, or perhaps even in the arranging during the tour.

Im very interested to see what he will do on the nenxt album because i agree that its pretty obvious that he didn't write most of those parts however the polyrythms in BAI at 2:24 are great.

Hasn't it been confirmed from several sources (interviews etc) that JP only wrote guidelines but Mangini probably wrote roughly 70-80 % of the drumparts? (guestimating based on the interviews I have read)

[Zydar]

He's done a good job. His sound is awesome, although his 'signature hi-hat sound' sometimes bugs me a bit. That's a big leap from MP's sound.

Other than that, maybe it's only in my mind, but I think you can hear that he didn't write the music. It's not totally what I expected from him. It's MM playing DT, which was to be expected.
But I'm interested to hear what he can add in the writing on the next album, or perhaps even in the arranging during the tour.

Im very interested to see what he will do on the nenxt album because i agree that its pretty obvious that he didn't write most of those parts however the polyrythms in BAI at 2:24 are great.

Hasn't it been confirmed from several sources (interviews etc) that JP only wrote guidelines but Mangini probably wrote roughly 70-80 % of the drumparts? (guestimating based on the reviews I have read)

Yeah, Mike confirms this:

"The important thing to stress, however, is that John didn't program all the drum parts that I would play, and I didn't play them note-for-note. He created outlines for me. Some things I played as they were, other things I changed, and in some cases he and I tried something totally different. I welcomed working that way."

From this interview:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/dream-theaters-mike-mangini-on-drumming-with-prog-metals-kings-496667/3

[7StringedBeast]

Yes please everyone take note of that interview so we don't have to read someone saying, Mangini didn't write his drum parts and had to play everything JP programmed.

[Metabog]

I really like the part where he plays the drums. 

[Zydar]

I really like the part where he plays the drums. 

Do you have a timestamp for that?

[BlobVanDam]

I really like the part where he plays the drums. 

You have a timestamp for that?

FFH - 1:05

[Rob801]

I just loving his drumming. He fits so well and to be honest I don't miss the "MP Max Stax" (as a couple others have mentioned... maybe in another thread, can't remember) and if MM was using them he'd probably just be accused of trying to emulate/copy MP (I have always been a BIG fan of MPs drumming but I think this is a really refreshing change and it couldn't have gone any smoother IMO).

What I really think is impressive is that the album sounds as good as it does and it was recorded before he had a chance to really play and gel with the band. He basically went in under the same conditions a hired gun might have to face and nailed it. I can only imagine how the next album will be after a year or two of playing and touring with the rest of the band !

Like I said I think his playing is incredible but what's going to really set him apart is not (only) what he's playing but how he's executing it. I have a feeling that even fills that sound standard aren't always being performed in the "usual" fashion with his incredible "one handed" speed, mirrored set, and being that he's completely ambidextrous.

I can't wait to see them in January and I really hope they put out a live DVD (better yet BD) from this tour!!!!

[teoevans]

For all you drummers.... can you point out some examples of polyrythms: song + time.... please

[senecadawg2]

I think he does a great job here. I'm a bit more excited to see what he has to offer on the next album though, when he can actually participate more in the songwriting process.

[GavinMangini89]

I miss Portnoy's little splash/stack cymbal embellishments throughout the album, plus (despite being a beautiful song) Beneath The Surface needs drums on it badly.  I can hear what Portnoy would have played in my head.

I agree with the first half of your statement, to an extent. The stack fills however are signature Portnoy and i think it would have been really self-serving, arrogant, and out of character for Mangini to exploit this, not only on a personality level, but on a performance level. I expected to hear Mangini playing on this album, and by god, there he is! Don't get me wrong, as a drummer, Portnoy is a huge influence to me and i love the guy, but Mangini brought a fresh serving of Mangini to the table and it was most delish!!

The second part of your statement I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH. This was a spotlight for the rest of DT to shine and see what they could accomplish post-Portnoy. Manigni is very intuitive with the musicality of the piece and all he needed to add was that concert bass drum with a few other nuances and it was great; it enhanced the other instruments and did the piece justice. What more can you ask for? Portnoy was great because a lot of things were very off-the-cuff rock drummer style. But to be fair, you have two different drummers, so judge them on their own  merits.

[gm5k]

For all you drummers.... can you point out some examples of polyrythms: song + time.... please

Yes this 

[gm5k]

Yes please everyone take note of that interview so we don't have to read someone saying, Mangini didn't write his drum parts and had to play everything JP programmed.

I kind of wish it was stickied(being facetious) so the false info. would stop being passed around like fact. 

Edit:  Oops sorry for double post.

[KevShmev]

For all you drummers.... can you point out some examples of polyrythms: song + time.... please

I am not a dummer, but if I am not mistaken, the part early on in On The Backs of Angels that everyone slobbers over is a good example.  Where he is doing the rhythm with his feet and then playing along with the keyboard lead with his hands.  I think it is around 2:10 or 2:20 (cannot remember which).

[duncan3dc]

I agree he plays more of a backseat role, but I think it has to do with JP writing the drum parts. Next album will be much more free for Mangini to take over the position of "lead drummer".

I dunno, the impression he gives in most interviews makes it sound like that's the role he wants. Backseat, keeping everything together.
I think the most recent interview that cropped up he said something about liking the polyrhythms and using them to tie the other player's parts together.

To me a big part of DT is each player "showing off". But Mangini's mantra seems to be to blend in.
Obviously he's doing some great stuff while he is blending in, but you have to seek it out, or it's something you might notice under certain listening conditions. I'd rather it was up front and in your face

[chwik]

For all you drummers.... can you point out some examples of polyrythms: song + time.... please

I'm not a drummer so somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think the sections starting from 7:43 to 8:43 in Outcry has polyrythms. If not it is still a lot of kickass drumming in those sections.

[johncal]

I agree he plays more of a backseat role, but I think it has to do with JP writing the drum parts. Next album will be much more free for Mangini to take over the position of "lead drummer".

I dunno, the impression he gives in most interviews makes it sound like that's the roll he wants. Backseat, keeping everything together.
I think the most recent interview that cropped up he said something about liking the polyrhythms and using them to tie the other player's parts together.

To me a big part of DT is each player "showing off". But Mangini's mantra seems to be to blend in.
Obviously he's doing some great stuff while he is blending in, but you have to seek it out, or it's something you might notice under certain listening conditions. I'd rather it was up front and in your face

Myung shows off? Right, he's almost stealth. As far as showoff's go, those guys let their playing do the talking. About the only showing off is "Keytar" Rudess.

[bosk1]

Extreme's Gary Cherone on Mangini replacing Portnoy in Dream Theater:

When asked what he thought about Mangini taking over on drums for Mike Portnoy in the progressive rock band    Dream Theater, Gary said Mangini is certainly capable. In fact, he described Mangini and Portnoy as two of the "best drummers on the planet."

He also said Mangini is in a position he can parallel to his experience with Van Halen.

"I know what he's getting into," said Gary. "There are a lot of loyal fans that are going to hate him just for replacing Portnoy. But, it's the perfect band for him because they are progressive and Mangini can bring some craziness to it. He's one of a kind."

Full Cherone interview here (not DT-related):  https://limelightmagazine.com/2011/09/13/garycherone/

[Metabog]

I think whoever says "you can't even tell MP is missing" is exaggerating. It's definitely a different drum style and sound. If Mangini didn't show off his giant kit in promo pictures you'd think he's playing a tiny one on the album because there are pretty much no flashy effect cymbals or other stuff like that like MP used to use. I like his drum style but it really sounds like he held himself back on this one, he's pretty much just a kind of driving force rather than a lead instrument (and that's how drums should be). Maybe in the next album he'll have a bit more freedom. I've been trying to find some kind of beat that would completely blow me away on the album, but tbh I haven't been able to find one, he just seems to drum away in a linear fashion, which is odd because Mangini shows off some crazy limb independence usually. Maybe I'm not listening close enough.

I do like that he uses the octobans, MP neglected those a bit recently. 
And I do like the drum mix with that subtle reverb.

I'm just glad there are no "RAAAWRRR BLASTBEET TIEM IS NOW" moments again.

[SystematicThought]

His snare in some parts just has so much power!

And where was the cowbell? I couldn't hear it

[johncal]

His snare in some parts just has so much power!

And where was the cowbell? I couldn't hear it

Begining of BAI... 6 different ones! Really!

[dongringo]

I really enjoy his performance. I think its cool that he didn't go bananas-crazy the whole time. It's a very dynamic performance.

I agree. It's a very tasteful performance. He's not trying to show off, rather he's accenting and driving the music. It is a change from the MP style, but this change is good. I'm really glad Mangini is on board.

[pmahoney1337]

I definitely agree with those saying his drumming his very complex he just makes it look/sound so effortless, which is why it's under-appreciated. MP's drumming was more of a "in your face" kind of style, so when someone who doesn't play drums hears a sweet ass fill or something fast they go holy fucking shit did you hear those drums YEAH!!!  . Mangini does that on this album, he just does it differently. That super fast ride part in On The Backs of Angels is a prime example, that is so fucking hard to do and really blows my mind.

[TheSilentHam]

I definitely agree with those saying his drumming his very complex he just makes it look/sound so effortless, which is why it's under-appreciated. MP's drumming was more of a "in your face" kind of style, so when someone who doesn't play drums hears a sweet ass fill or something fast they go holy fucking shit did you hear those drums YEAH!!!  . Mangini does that on this album, he just does it differently.

Agree with this ^.  Mangini was great - definitely "Wow" moments and I am loving his style.  However, the "in your face" drumming style was part of what drew me to DT music. I also like music where the drums fill a supporting, connective role - but that's not what DT music was.  I personally liked it when all instruments had close to equal prominence in the composition - and the drums just didn't get that treatment this album (for reasons we understand).  The last few albums, it was the bass that suffered in the composition and mix.

I hope Mangini has more of a role in the studio next album - I don't know if he wants it, or if the rest of the band wants it that way.  If this is the role that drums will fill in DT compositions going forward, I will still sit back and enjoy what Mangini does with it.  It's just different.

[KevShmev]

  I've been trying to find some kind of beat that would completely blow me away on the album, but tbh I haven't been able to find one, he just seems to drum away in a linear fashion, which is odd because Mangini shows off some crazy limb independence usually. Maybe I'm not listening close enough.

Listen to his drumming during the second verse of Bridges in the Sky (starts at 5:05); I think that is some really bad ass playing.

[ddtonfire]

I'm not a big fan of the drum mix. Honestly, they sound like they were recorded in a padded cell. His playing's great, but the drums don't breathe through the mix very well. Maybe I listen to too much Phil Collins or I'm too used to a MP-dominated mix (which I really find no problem with). I like my drums up front and HUGE, so I find this kind of lacking. It really detracts from the headphone experience, but I don't notice it as much with normal speakers.

[CrimsonE]

Extreme's Gary Cherone on Mangini replacing Portnoy in Dream Theater:

When asked what he thought about Mangini taking over on drums for Mike Portnoy in the progressive rock band    Dream Theater, Gary said Mangini is certainly capable. In fact, he described Mangini and Portnoy as two of the "best drummers on the planet."

He also said Mangini is in a position he can parallel to his experience with Van Halen.

"I know what he's getting into," said Gary. "There are a lot of loyal fans that are going to hate him just for replacing Portnoy. But, it's the perfect band for him because they are progressive and Mangini can bring some craziness to it. He's one of a kind."

Full Cherone interview here (not DT-related):  https://limelightmagazine.com/2011/09/13/garycherone/

Good take on MM from Charone, although I highly doubt that MM would damn near be the end of DT like Charone almost was for VH--not really Gary's fault, but rather the band's for trying to make him into Hagar 2.0 rather than playing to Charone's vocal strengths. 

[WildeSilas]

^^^^
This

[Zook]

What else is there to say besides his performance is fucking awesome.

[Drexl359]

Love the bit in Breaking All Illusions 2:23 - 2:43. Very chill section, with the open hi hat creating a subtle polyrythmic feel over the time changes under it.

[duncan3dc]

*snip*
That super fast ride part in On The Backs of Angels is a prime example, that is so fucking hard to do and really blows my mind.

Isn't that just 16ths? Or am I not hearing something

[CodyWanKenobi]

I still think the drums in the outro of Breaking All Illusions (all those fills at the end) should have been brought up a little more in the mix. It's kinda hard to hear them. Concur?

[ddtonfire]

Oh, and one more gripe. The cymbals sound like each was recorded with a single mic, then panned accordingly. Obviously that's not what happened, but they really, really lack the room's ambience.

[shantustarsun]

I think it takes a few listens at least to comprehend what he's doing behind the kit. Some of the stuff he's doing is really insane but he makes it sound so effortless, and I think that's part of the reason his playing is being underated on this album.

I agree with this completely.