Leaving MM out of the writing - suspect

[hefdaddy42]

So, if he's obviously happy with whatever the situation is... and the band is happy also...  what's the issue?

Good question.  And the answer is, there isn't one.

[BlobVanDam]

So they left MM out of the writing process intentionally so he gets no writing credit royalties? Is that the conspiracy theory? Because DT probably make about 2 bucks from album sales. Their money comes from touring, which MM would get his cut of.

The band has explained it, and I'm satisfied with their explanation.

[Adami]

What an odd theory.


Portnoy was a HUGE presence during the writing sessions, and obviously the rest of the gang didn't care to continue the status quo so they took advantage of their newly found situation and decided to try something new and different. It's pretty damn  simply.

[Madman Shepherd]

So they left MM out of the writing process intentionally so he gets no writing credit royalties? Is that the conspiracy theory? Because DT probably make about 2 bucks from album sales. Their money comes from touring, which MM would get his cut of.

The band has explained it, and I'm satisfied with their explanation.

...AND there are writing royalties and performance royalties so he will still get *something* from the album.

[BlobVanDam]

So they left MM out of the writing process intentionally so he gets no writing credit royalties? Is that the conspiracy theory? Because DT probably make about 2 bucks from album sales. Their money comes from touring, which MM would get his cut of.

The band has explained it, and I'm satisfied with their explanation.

...AND there are writing royalties and performance royalties so he will still get *something* from the album.

DT are pretty diplomatic guys, and have accepted MM fully, so I'm sure he's got a fair deal for royalties from the album in some form, rather than just treating him like a hired gun session musician.

[3xodus]

This shouldn't even be an issue.. I'm fairly certain that at some point in The Spirit Carries on reality thing JP mentioned that the album was already written before Mangini even joined. It's about the same as how they had already written and recorded SC before they joined RR. Who gives a shit anyway? If Mangini is in DT for 20 more years and never writes a fucking thing I wouldn't give a shit. As long as he is happy playing drums for them.

[tri.ad]

People are still going on about this?! DT have explained the circumstances of the writing process multiple times (and I'm sure enough to assume that there's absolutely no reason to think that they're lying about it), MM didn't mind it at all (the same premises apply here) and both sides expressed interest in incorporating MM in the writing of DT12. Hell, they're even discussing stuff like that when they're on tour.

Sure, my post comes off as a bit redundant in this thread, but still, it really baffles me that people still want to see something that just isn't there.

[hefdaddy42]

This shouldn't even be an issue.. I'm fairly certain that at some point in The Spirit Carries on reality thing JP mentioned that the album was already written before Mangini even joined.

No.  The auditions were in September or October, and they let MM know that he made it in November.  They didn't begin the new album until January.

[Magikernandy]

I know that Vai wrote all the beats down for him when he played with him in the nineties.

Maybe it´s the same thing in DT they just wrote everything down and then he played it exactly as it´s written, anybody knows?

[hefdaddy42]

I know that Vai wrote all the beats down for him when he played with him in the nineties.

Maybe it´s the same thing in DT they just wrote everything down and then he played it exactly as it´s written, anybody knows?

We all know, because it's been talked about over and over again and mentioned in interview after interview.

When the other four members wrote the music, JP did the percussion with a drum machine, then sent the demos to MM to learn the parts he wrote for the songs and make any adjustments he thought were appropriate.  Then he came into the studio and apparently just killed it.

[ResultsMayVary]

I know that Vai wrote all the beats down for him when he played with him in the nineties.

Maybe it´s the same thing in DT they just wrote everything down and then he played it exactly as it´s written, anybody knows?

We all know, because it's been talked about over and over again and mentioned in interview after interview.

When the other four members wrote the music, JP did the percussion with a drum machine, then sent the demos to MM to learn the parts he wrote for the songs and make any adjustments he thought were appropriate.  Then he came into the studio and apparently just killed it.

This. Everyone needs to read the interviews that are out there and available, because these interviews pretty much answer all these 'conspiracy theories.'

[dbrooks22]

Look - there is no "conspiracy theory."  And everyone who keeps making reference to the interviews out there - thank you but i have read all of them.  Every single one.  And that is exactly the reason why i brought this up - because the interview responses sound "planned." 

Just like when the band is asked whether the album title has anything to do with MP leaving... we ALL know it has at least something to do with it.  You can't have a founding member of 25yrs leave completely unexpectedly, then name your album title ADTOE, and then say in interviews that it has nothing to do with MP's leaving.   

So i believe that there was a business reason to leave MM out of the writing process.  I don't know what the biz details are behind DT, and no one has to agree with me.  But i don't think this is as far of a stretch as some here make it out to be. 

[hefdaddy42]

Look - there is no "conspiracy theory."  And everyone who keeps making reference to the interviews out there - thank you but i have read all of them.  Every single one.  And that is exactly the reason why i brought this up - because the interview responses sound "planned." 

They sound "planned" because they all planned to tell the truth.

[BlobVanDam]

Just like when the band is asked whether the album title has anything to do with MP leaving... we ALL know it has at least something to do with it.  You can't have a founding member of 25yrs leave completely unexpectedly, then name your album title ADTOE, and then say in interviews that it has nothing to do with MP's leaving.   

Sure you can. Because it doesn't have anything to do with it. They said this outright.
Had MP left right before Black Clouds and Silver Linings you could have made the exact same argument, and it would have fitted just as well, and would have been just as baseless.

[dbrooks22]

Look - there is no "conspiracy theory."  And everyone who keeps making reference to the interviews out there - thank you but i have read all of them.  Every single one.  And that is exactly the reason why i brought this up - because the interview responses sound "planned." 

They sound "planned" because they all planned to tell the truth.

You don't have to "plan" to tell the truth. 

Sure you can. Because it doesn't have anything to do with it. They said this outright.
 

Again - i know what they said.  Didn't we have a thread about this already - where most people agreed that it had at least something to do with it?

[bosk1]

Then later we found out about MP's legal moves

Incorrect.  We knew there were legal issues being dealt with about a year ago.  This was not knew when we heard about it in the recent interview.  We know nothing of any "legal moves" by Mike Portnoy.


I'm going to take a guess about the writing process based on a lot of things that have actually been said.  DT had parted with a long-time friend who had always been extremely hands-on during the writing process.  That friend was now gone.  Other members had become somewhat detached from the writing process over the years.  Writing with just the four of them likely gave them the opportunity (1) to have somewhat of a healing process over not having their friend present anymore and (2) gave an opportunity to reintegrate the existing members who had become detached from the writing process.  No matter how well they got along with Mangini, having him present meant introducing another variable into the process that could have hindered both of those goals.  Under the circumstances, it makes perfect sense that they didn't have Mangini involved in the writing.  Honesty, I would have been surprised if they had.

[bosk1]

Sure you can. Because it doesn't have anything to do with it. They said this outright.
 

Again - i know what they said.  Didn't we have a thread about this already - where most people agreed that it had at least something to do with it?

No.  Most people don't agree with that.

[BlobVanDam]

Sure you can. Because it doesn't have anything to do with it. They said this outright.
 

Again - i know what they said.  Didn't we have a thread about this already - where most people agreed that it had at least something to do with it?

Yeah, when the album name was first announced it did seem possible, for sure. But does anyone still think that since the band denied it directly? JR said he didn't even think of it in that way at all.
DT aren't the kind of guys to make a reference to the band's situation, and then deny it later. If it was a reference to it, I think they'd definitely say so, rather than do it and then shy away when questioned over it. The band is trying to move forward, not dwell on the situation of MP leaving. Everything about the personalities of the band members convinces me this is just a coincidence.

[dbrooks22]

Then later we found out about MP's legal moves

Incorrect.  We knew there were legal issues being dealt with about a year ago.  This was not knew when we heard about it in the recent interview.  We know nothing of any "legal moves" by Mike Portnoy.

Either way, they made the decision about touring material AFTER the legal moves.  Not before.  So it very well may have played a part.

[bosk1]

Look - there is no "conspiracy theory."  And everyone who keeps making reference to the interviews out there - thank you but i have read all of them.  Every single one.  And that is exactly the reason why i brought this up - because the interview responses sound "planned."  

They sound "planned" because they all planned to tell the truth.

You don't have to "plan" to tell the truth.  

Yeah, actually, when the subject is one that is very sensitive and when you are public figures whose fanbase like to overanalyze every word you say and come up with 1,000 conspiracy theories every time you open your mouth, I imagine you DO have to plan pretty extensively.  This thread is proof of that.

EDIT:  And next time you use the phrase "legal moves" in a post, I'm going to ban you for deliberately distorting the truth and spreading rumors about band members.

[dbrooks22]

Yeah, when the album name was first announced it did seem possible, for sure. But does anyone still think that since the band denied it directly? JR said he didn't even think of it in that way at all.
DT aren't the kind of guys to make a reference to the band's situation, and then deny it later. If it was a reference to it, I think they'd definitely say so, rather than do it and then shy away when questioned over it. The band is trying to move forward, not dwell on the situation of MP leaving. Everything about the personalities of the band members convinces me this is just a coincidence.

I guess it just depends on if you think they were being diplomatic about it or not in the interviews....

[dbrooks22]

Look - there is no "conspiracy theory."  And everyone who keeps making reference to the interviews out there - thank you but i have read all of them.  Every single one.  And that is exactly the reason why i brought this up - because the interview responses sound "planned."  

They sound "planned" because they all planned to tell the truth.

You don't have to "plan" to tell the truth.  

Yeah, actually, when the subject is one that is very sensitive and when you are public figures whose fanbase like to overanalyze every word you say and come up with 1,000 conspiracy theories every time you open your mouth, I imagine you DO have to plan pretty extensively.  This thread is proof of that.

EDIT:  And next time you use the phrase "legal moves" in a post, I'm going to ban you for deliberately distorting the truth and spreading rumors about band members.

Please tell me how i have distorted the truth by using that phrase?  Is this not public knowledge?

[bosk1]

No, it is not public knowledge that there are any "legal moves" by Portnoy.  And you've been corrected on that issue in this thread by me and other users.

[BlobVanDam]

These conspiracy theories really do require us to ignore a lot of solid factual evidence and observed behaviour to the contrary, for the sake of a lot of baseless and out of character accusations.

Bosk, please update the forum rules with the following-

The title ADTOE is not a reference to MP.
DT didn't plot against MM to rob him of royalties.
Neil Armstrong landed on the moon.
It was not a controlled explosion.
Awake is most definitely about Spiderman.
Han shot first.
Soylent Green is made from people, but they'll kill you if you say anything.
There was a second spitter.
Bosk may or may not have legitimate force powers.

That is all.

[dbrooks22]

Blob - no conspiracy here.  And, there is no "solid factual evidence" one way or the other.  All we have are public interviews.  I would expect anyone to skirt issues such as these in a public interview, and would not accuse them of having misled fans or lied.  It is the nature of the business.

[hefdaddy42]

Blob - no conspiracy here.  And, there is no "solid factual evidence" one way or the other.  All we have are public interviews. 

Glad we got that cleared up.