Live versions of songs that require two guitars at once... How do they do it?

[Vajra]

For those songs that have two guitar riffs playing simultaniously, or when JP does a solo over one of his riffs... how is this done live? Is there a recording that they use? Or is there some guy behind the stage that plays the guitar part?

[Fuzzboy]

Well for the solo bit, Petrucci just basically solos with no rhythm guitar in the background, and I guess that sometimes Jordan might use a guitar-ish patch to double a few guitar bits

[Vajra]

Well for the solo bit, Petrucci just basically solos with no rhythm guitar in the background

There has never been a live performance that I've seen/attended that they purposely left out the rhythm guitar. Both guitar parts are always played.

[Vajra]

I'm watching The Glass Prison now, JP does the arpegios while the heavy rythem sections plays simultaniously. Jorden is also doing his own part.

There either has to be another person behind the stage, or it's a recording.

[JayOctavarium]

Jordan has 2 hands....

[robwebster]

Well for the solo bit, Petrucci just basically solos with no rhythm guitar in the background

There has never been a live performance that I've seen/attended that they purposely left out the rhythm guitar. Both guitar parts are always played.

Peruvian Skies is a pretty good example. Pretty sure it just goes to the bass alone. Maybe with a bit of crunch applied?

I dunno. I'd have to look again. I'd always just heard bass, or occasionally some crunchy keyboard.

EDIT: I'm watching The Glass Prison now. Live from Japan. No rhythm guitar under the arpeggios at all, I'm afraid.

[Vajra]

Well for the solo bit, Petrucci just basically solos with no rhythm guitar in the background

There has never been a live performance that I've seen/attended that they purposely left out the rhythm guitar. Both guitar parts are always played.

Peruvian Skies is a pretty good example. Pretty sure it just goes to the bass alone. Maybe with a bit of crunch applied?

I dunno. I'd have to look again. I'd always just heard bass, or occasionally some crunchy keyboard.

EDIT: I'm watching The Glass Prison now. Live from Japan. No rhythm guitar under the arpeggios at all, I'm afraid.

Wow, you're right, but listen to this on youtube...   

The Glass Prison Live [Gigantour] Pt. 1 

At 1:41 JP's heavy riff comes in. Once the arpeggios start, you can still hear the riff being played. You can hear it here, but not in the Japan one... wf?

[chrisbDTM]

jordan is doing it in the gigantour one


so this

Jordan has 2 hands....

thread

[Vajra]

jordan is doing it in the gigantour one


so this

Jordan has 2 hands....

thread

I didn't know a keyboard could do a perfect mimick of palm-muting. Are you sure its Jordan?

[JayOctavarium]

jordan is doing it in the gigantour one


so this

Jordan has 2 hands....

thread

I didn't know a keyboard could do a perfect mimick of palm-muting. Are you sure its Jordan?

Jordan is a wizard.

[Gadough]

Samara, why are you so resistant to the answers people are giving you?

[chrisbDTM]

basically any sound can be made today. i hear a lot of 'snarling pig' in there

[Vajra]

Samara, why are you so resistant to the answers people are giving you?

I'm not resistant, I'm just skeptical. I never claimed anyone was wrong. If Jordan really does do the guitar work, or if the guitar work is in fact left out, I'm fine with that.

[Vajra]

Sorry if I came off as sounding arogant. I was just curious about the subject, so I had a lot of questions. (hence why I didn't just say "Oh okay" lol)

[Gadough]

No problem; you didn't sound arrogant. I just wondered why you asked the question in the first place if you didn't want to believe the answers people gave you.

[fleaman]

Propably JP has a loop pedal with all the rythm parts in it.And he stomps on every saved patch in that pedal

[chrisbDTM]

Propably JP has a loop pedal with all the rythm parts in it.And he stomps on every saved patch in that pedal

nah JP doesnt do that. the rhythm changes keys midway through the riff in TGP anyway.

[ReaPsTA]

Samara, why are you so resistant to the answers people are giving you?

I'm not resistant, I'm just skeptical. I never claimed anyone was wrong. If Jordan really does do the guitar work, or if the guitar work is in fact left out, I'm fine with that.

There's a video has called total keyboard wizardry where Jordan shows the guitar patches he uses to play the rhythm.  You can hear it, albiet quietly, in the fast part of Strange Deja Vu.  Listen to the left speaker, you'll hear a really crunchy synthy thing.

[dvargas]

I'm pretty sure JR said at some point that he had to learn to play like a guitar for those parts during some interview a very long time ago, or soemthing along those lines.

[Vajra]

Samara, why are you so resistant to the answers people are giving you?

I'm not resistant, I'm just skeptical. I never claimed anyone was wrong. If Jordan really does do the guitar work, or if the guitar work is in fact left out, I'm fine with that.

There's a video has called total keyboard wizardry where Jordan shows the guitar patches he uses to play the rhythm.  You can hear it, albiet quietly, in the fast part of Strange Deja Vu.  Listen to the left speaker, you'll hear a really crunchy synthy thing.

Interesting. I knew his keyboard could do distorted guitar sounds, but I wasn't aware it could do palm-muting as well. That's what threw me off.

[darkshot]

I'm pretty sure JR said at some point that he had to learn to play like a guitar for those parts during some interview a very long time ago, or soemthing along those lines.

JR is already a pretty good guitar player if you've heard some of his playing, so it doesn't surprise me that he can play guitar parts on keyboards pretty easily.  He's no JP on the guitar but I was pretty shocked when I heard what he can do, he rocks.

[pain of occupation]

the example that immediately came to mind was the opening to the count of tuscany. quite certain he's solo'ing over a recording of the rhythm guitar (rather than a jordan patch job)

[JayOctavarium]

The intro to TCOT is a tape

[Jamesman42]

The intro to TCOT is a tape

i think jp uses a loop machine, i;vve seen my friend do it well and he is nwohere near as good as jp

[MetropolisxPt1]

The intro to TCOT is a tape

i think jp uses a loop machine, i;vve seen my friend do it well and he is nwohere near as good as jp

I also have been told its a loop but it would work either way.

[pain of occupation]

trippy!

so he plays the rhythm live for, like, a measure or two, then loops it and starts the solo n junk?!

the more i know.

[JayOctavarium]

The intro to TCOT is a tape

i think jp uses a loop machine, i;vve seen my friend do it well and he is nwohere near as good as jp

I also have been told its a loop but it would work either way.

The reason I say that is didn't they cue it prematurely during one of the recent shows??

[Setlist Scotty]

trippy!

so he plays the rhythm live for, like, a measure or two, then loops it and starts the solo n junk?!

the more i know.

Nope. It's a recording, pure and simple. Jordan told me himself when I spoke with him after the LA show in 2009.

And to answer Brian's initial question, there are some instances where Jordan will play a rhythm part on the song, and others where he won't. At no time has there ever been anyone off stage playing additional parts. And AFAIK, the sole exception is the intro to TCoT (where JP plays to a recording). Personally, I think Jordan should play it himself (maybe he will when he finally brings the Harpejji on the road) but it was his decision not to.

[pain of occupation]

the less i know 

well, i guess i was initially right. still, i got pumped for this new nugget of info.

[wammabe]

The guitar muting thing can easily be done on a keyboard. I can make sounds that sound almost identical to a guitar. The only way of clearly knowing the difference would be if I were to try and make more complex riffs or solos. In Dream Theater's case, that's probably Petrucci doing the riffs and the solo at the same time by manipulating time.

[reo73]

trippy!

so he plays the rhythm live for, like, a measure or two, then loops it and starts the solo n junk?!

the more i know.

Nope. It's a recording, pure and simple. Jordan told me himself when I spoke with him after the LA show in 2009.

And to answer Brian's initial question, there are some instances where Jordan will play a rhythm part on the song, and others where he won't. At no time has there ever been anyone off stage playing additional parts. And AFAIK, the sole exception is the intro to TCoT (where JP plays to a recording). Personally, I think Jordan should play it himself (maybe he will when he finally brings the Harpejji on the road) but it was his decision not to.

Do you mean a keyboard patch or recording like a sample?  To me it looks as if Jordan is playing the riff on the keys and it also may be that JM (he's playing the riff too) is sending his signal thru a patch that has distortion on it.

[reo73]

trippy!

so he plays the rhythm live for, like, a measure or two, then loops it and starts the solo n junk?!

the more i know.

Nope. It's a recording, pure and simple. Jordan told me himself when I spoke with him after the LA show in 2009.

And to answer Brian's initial question, there are some instances where Jordan will play a rhythm part on the song, and others where he won't. At no time has there ever been anyone off stage playing additional parts. And AFAIK, the sole exception is the intro to TCoT (where JP plays to a recording). Personally, I think Jordan should play it himself (maybe he will when he finally brings the Harpejji on the road) but it was his decision not to.

Do you mean a keyboard patch or recording like a sample?  To me it looks as if Jordan is playing the riff on the keys and it also may be that JM (he's playing the riff too) is sending his signal thru a patch that has distortion on it.

I don't think I have ever read where Petrucci uses a looper of any kind live.

[reo73]

oops...post error.

I meant to say that I don't recall JP ever saying he uses a looper live and he doesn't in this instance because the riff changes part way thru.

[Infinite Cactus]

As far as palm muting goes, all Jordan would have to do is create a patch that already sounds palm muted. And yes, Jordan plays the rhythm guitar parts in a lot of songs on keyboards. At least when the song really needs it. Also, TCOT intro is a recording just like the begging of Metropolis with the bells.

[italianoman]

Great topic with interesting responses; I've always wondered how they did it :O but sheesh, good thing Jordan is such an exceptional musician. I would have been shocked if JP'd opted to use a looper though, seems too imprecise for such complex music and if you botch the measure, it'll loop in all it's fail over and over! Or maybe I just suck at using my loopstation and underestimate it's ease of use in a live setting.