Why is Systematic Chaos so underrated?

[toro]

Good Songs Tier.
- INTPOE Pt.1
- Repentance

OK songs.
-Constant Motion

Meh Songs.
-The Dark Eternal Night
-Prophets Of War
-INTPOE Pt.2(lolTheReckoning)

OH GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING TIER
-TMOLS

I Hate You Forever Tier
-LOLSAKEN

I think it's a mediocre album, but it's still fun to listen to from time to time.

[Blackfield]

The only song I feel they're on to something is ITPOE PT1. The other songs isn't really worth mentioning.

[TAC]

Because of TMOLS thread, I decided to bust out SC today. I've always defended it. But I have to say the James is fantastic on this. He sings perfectly. I know he's now asked to use his full range, but he's spot on for the entire album.

[King Postwhore]

I think I'll crank it when I mow the lawn.  It's been a while since I've played SC.

[Ben_Jamin]

Because of TMOLS thread, I decided to bust out SC today. I've always defended it. But I have to say the James is fantastic on this. He sings perfectly. I know he's now asked to use his full range, but he's spot on for the entire album.

When I got the cd, I told my friends that JLB's vocals have improved and that their next album, which is now BC&SL, would be even better.

The past 2 albums I have seen as modern day old albums. SC is WD&DU, BC&SL is I&W, and now maybe ADTOE will be as good or just equal to the quality of Awake.

[TheGreatPretender]

The past 2 albums I have seen as modern day old albums. SC is WD&DU, BC&SL is I&W, and now maybe ADTOE will be as good or just equal to the quality of Awake.

I don't hear that at all. I&W was amazing for its time, and still is great. BCSL was a big step down from SC.

[jayvee]

I'm really surprised by the turns that this thread is taking. Systematic Chaos is one of my favorite Dream Theater albums.

In the Presence of Enemies, Part 2, is currently my favorite DT song. I consider Part 1 to be the beginnings of this song, so I love it too. I've never seen DT live, and I've never listened to the studio versions Parts 1 and 2 back-to-back, so that's really all I can say about this track at the moment. I'll have a whole lot more to say about Part 2 in a minute.

Forsaken is a very nice song. Is it a "pop" song? Is it a "simple" song? I don't know. It's lovely, it's memorable, it's catchy, and it's nicely done. I'm one of those who likes DT's super-technical side, and really dislikes their "simpler" stuff, but there's something really nice about this song that keeps me happy. Maybe I consider the melody to be just that lovely. I don't know. In any event, it's a real favorite of mine.

Constant Motion is also "pop" in the sense of being like a regular metal or hard rock song, but it's extremely well played, and its introduction section is one of the most excellent technical sections in any DT song. It's a complex and wonderful intro -- if you want to introduce a professional musician to DT, and show them how impressive they are as musicians, this song's intro would be a good place to start -- and the complexity and technicality of the rest of the song is nothing to sneeze at either. Another big favorite of mine.

The Dark Eternal Night is as cheesy as a song can be, but I'm going to go for the technicality factor here too. The song is stunningly good, especially in the chaotic middle section, which I understand was conceived by Rudess on almost a whim. Despite the cheese of the outer bands of the song, this is a huge favorite of mine. That middle section is just technical musicality on steroids. Love, love, love it.

Repentance ... Prophets of War ... The Ministry of Lost Souls ... I never listen to these. To anyone who loves these songs, sorry; they're just not my type.

And back we come to In the Presence of Enemies, Part 2. Wow. First of all the song itself is quite symphonic, in an old-school way. Usually I don't like such music. I consider it to be kind of kitschy and "an easy target" to hit. But the song is built very nicely. It's not just a bunch of Beethoven chords and big sound. There's some non-trivial structure there.

And then comes the nice metal section at about the six-minute mark, which is the beginning of DT's famous ability to build the tension in a song in a relentless way. (A fantastic example of this is Glass Prison or This Dying Soul, which just get bigger, bigger and more exciting with each passing moment).

And then. My god. It's full of stars. Suddenly you're hit with the music that starts at about 8:50. What ... the ... fudd???

This section of music has got to be some of the most technical, exciting, complex music DT has produced. I recognize that they've produced a lot of complex stuff, but something about this music just hits me like a machine gun, and keeps going, and keeps going, and just keeps getting crazier and crazier ...

Until a few minutes later, when the music resolves itself back in the symphonic -- or perhaps operatic -- mode of the earlier parts of the music, in simply the most lovely and dramatic way. Just gorgeous.

And the vocal phrases beginning at around 15:05 give me goose bumps. I can't for the life of me understand how people can listen to the end of this song and say things like "James LaBrie just isn't the same as he was," or any of that stuff. His work on this song -- and on this album as a whole -- is just wonderful in my opinion. There are so many sections where his voice is almost naked. (The parts where he sings a gentle falsetto against a gentle guitar background). I mean, what else do people want from the guy?

Maybe next year I won't love this song as much. Maybe it won't be my favorite-favorite tune of theirs any more. But it will always (always always) be one of DT's top-most songs in my mind.

And this album will always be a favorite too.

Thus endeth the posting. Sorry for my self-indulgence.

[j]

Awesome that you like the album, and even though I'm not big on the album or the song, I actually agree with you about LaBrie's vocals on ITPOE Pt 2.  He's the highlight of the song throughout, IMO.

I will say that most people here probably don't value "complexity and technicality" as much as you seem to, which could partly explain the difference in tastes.

-J

[Nathan Explosion]

When I first got SC I was struggling with depression,  so because of that and the negative reviews, I always kinda associated it as a bad or depressing album.

But because I haven't listened to the full SC album since about 2008, it really has a refreshing sound now, even compared to an album like Awake, mostly because I've way over listened to all of their usual "best" albums. 

[ResultsMayVary]

SC was the first album that was released when I was a fan (became a fan the day 8VM was released...), so this album was my first taste of the pre-DT release hype. Loved ITPOE pt. 1, always thought Forsaken, Constant Motion, The Dark Eternal Night, Prophets of War, and ITPOE pt. 2 were good songs. Loved Repentance (with the exception of the 2nd half of the song), and really enjoyed TMOLS being mostly JP and JLB going at it. I liked that song that a lot when the album was first released.

[Millais]

yeah i liked this album, still not sure why it is so underrated by a good majority of this forum... don't have a problem with it whatsoever apart from the compression/ITPOE pt. 2 just dragging on and on (could have been a fitting end if they'd taken about 2/3 minutes off the length!)

[jayvee3]

it gets a lot of unwarrented hate, and heres the thing - i dont hate any DT album. in fact, even picking my favorite is hard as that is constantly changing, and it can come down to my own mood which one im into at any given time.  I like to look at all thier albums as children - I like them all equally, and they each have thier strong and weak points. I dont love absolutely everything, but I can find something great off each album, so im never left disappointed. I also try not to have an expectation with each new release, hoping it sounds like something else - I want it to sound like its own album, as every album they have ever done has its own feel. being disappointed it didnt sound like 'X', just never made sense to me..

So on to SC, like all thier albums, it has some great stuff, and some other bits i work around. ITPOE is tops, and forsaken and constant motion are fine - they get bagged for being generic, but they are great little tunes. TDEN is a bit of a mishmash - some parts work, some dont. Repentance simply isnt my cup of tea - doesnt sound inspiring to me at all, and just drags - I was kinda bored with the whole AA thing by this point. Prophets is a really nice tune (great to work out to:)), and Ministry is really solid, if a little ambitious in parts. As a whole, it sounds quite fresh, and like they were having a good time making it. Fun lyrics, give a nice little horror/fantasy feel. so overall, It has plenty for me to listen to and come back to, much like everything else. I was always a big fan of the sound of Awke and FII, and they were much the same - Had some huge highlights, and some other things not so much..

[jayvee]

I will say that most people here probably don't value "complexity and technicality" as much as you seem to, which could partly explain the difference in tastes.

Yes, absolutely.

I hope I was careful enough in clarifying that those two qualities (complexity and technicality) are the main reasons for my being a DT fan, to give everyone the right perspective on my review. I hope I was also being careful enough in saying that there were three songs on the album which were simply not my cup of tea, not that they sucked or dragged or whatever. Different streams of DT fans like different groupings of DT music. The members of each stream need to identify themselves and communicate with the others as best we can. Has anyone out there ever done a "if you like these songs then you'll also like these songs" with DT's music? It would be interesting to see the Venn Diagrams that it might generate....

[Elite]

Awesome that you like the album, and even though I'm not big on the album or the song, I actually agree with you about LaBrie's vocals on ITPOE Pt 2.  He's the highlight of the song throughout, IMO.

I think Petrucci also shines on the song, his use of tone, effects, everything.
ITPOE Pt. II is one of my favourite songs to play along to on guitar, just so goddamn fun.

[VanBrandevoort]

SC has been my least listened to DT album for a long time. But after I got bored with BCSL after playing it a 1000 times I gave SC another try and guess what: it's just as great as any DT album There are still bits in there that somehow feel a bit cheesy to me, but I'm currently listening to ITPoE pt.2 and I'm just amazed by it's sheer awesomeness. It definitely deserves more love.

[AcidLameLTE]

Easily the worst DT album.

Also, if I ever have to hear Constant Motion at another DT gig, I may destroy the world.

[Mat JB]

Forsaken is baaaad. Lyrically, at least - just cringeworthy. I like the rest of the album though, and think it undeserving of all the hate it gets. It doesn't have the melodic brilliance of Images and Words, not by far, but I like it for what it is.

Also, I really enjoy Constant Motion and The Dark Eternal Night, which many seem not to - they are fun metal songs. I like Presence of Enemies very much, Repentance is very good for taking me on a dark journey - could do without the cheesy and obtrusive spoken parts though, much like in The Great Debate. Prophets of War is good except for the ridiculous rapping and the overt resmeblance to Muse.
Also, as a soloist, John Petrucci came back with a vengeance on this album. He went into alt pick 1000 notes per second mode on Train Of Thought, and was pretty subdued overall on Octavarium - ending solo aside - but on Systematic Chaos he really returned to the lyrical and expressive style that has made him legendary.
Ministry is a mixed bag - it has beautiful moments like JP's clean arpeggiated chords at the start and of course the transcendent ending solo, but parts of the song are just cheesy and overwrought. The instrumental section doesn't really fit at all, either.

I was generally happy with this album, though, as it showed DT maintaining a balance between metal, progressive tendencies, and melodicism, as well as truly retaining their own identity for the most part - things that in my opinion were not accomplished on Train of Though and Octavarium.

Really, Octavarium was a big dissappointment to me - 1st and last songs are great, but everything in between I still don't like at all. These Walls features the band's lyrical nadir - 'so much uncertainty - I don't like this feeling.' Simplicity can be a desirable quality, but there's a limit, y'know?
To see the band that produced Images, Awake, and A Change of Seasons deliberately mimicking Coldplay, U2, and Linkin Park was downright depressing, and to me, Systematic Chaos put them back on the right path in that sense. (Having said that, I love the title track of Octavarium - truly epic.)