JLB vs other prog. metal singers

[LudwigVan]

I always thought that the worst aspect of new prog is its singers. Instead of choosing singers who dominate through the character of their voice (a la Peter Gabriel) the employ pseudo-operatic ones.

rumborak

This is a great point.  It seems like prog-metal bands feel the need to showcase technique/range/power over and above any other vocal quality, much to the detriment of the genre as a whole.  It's become such a part of the 'blueprint' for prog metal, to the point where bands like Riverside and Pain of Salvation occasionally fall outside of the sub-genre specifically because they DON'T employ the psuedo-operatic vocalist.      

[rumborak]

In general, as much as I like the few prog metal bands I actually like, the genre is pretty ... moribund.

rumborak

[TL]

I definitely agree with the OP.
James has a very distinct voice. If I were to hear him singing on a song I'd never heard before, I would know right away that it was him. With a lot of other prog bands, no matter how often I listened to them, I still wouldn't be able to identify their vocalist on a track I hadn't already heard.

[dongringo]

I find that with the newer gereration op progmetal I need to get used to the vocals. Same happened when I first got into DT.
This I experienced with Circus Maximus and Aspera. But now I like it.
I especially like how Mike of CM has this TNT like vibe to his voice.

With a band like Disperse it's another story.
I find the singer not a particularly great vocalist, but his voice fits the music so well that it's just awesome.

I know what you mean. Same thing with Myrath. Their singer isn't particularly good either, but fits the music. Great vocalists are just hard to come by in prog these days, but it doesn't mean there aren't some good singers like Mike of CM.

[lithium112]

lol alright, glad that I'm not the only one who's noticed the phenomenon. It really is disappointing to hear a new band/song and think "ok the instrumentals are pretty good so far" only to have the singer come in and it sounds like every single other band.

I definitely dig the bands like Riverside and Symphony X where the singer has their own distinct style and voice. I actually think the parallel between Sym X and DT is interesting - they both released their first, somewhat shaky album, with a terrible singer (sorry to offend all the Dominici fans out there) and then replaced them with an AMAZING singer on subsequent releases.

The similarity of prog metal singers has definitely contributed to my exploration (and eventual adoration) for some of the heavier progressive acts like BTBAM, Protest the Hero and later TesseracT and Periphery. Though I understand that the vocals are not everyone's cup of tea. 

*PS, of course the amount of identical-sounding heavy prog bands with the same harsh vocals is also enormous, but that's a complaint for a different post and sub-forum lol

[Lowdz]

It's one of the reasons I can't get into many of the prog metal bands, but it's not just the singers, it's the whole band and the whole package. The whole genre sounds so similar I couldn't tell the bands apart. there are some exceptions as have been listed, and I really llike John West and Khan as they sound different to that GT/BD voice that tends to be the norm.
Most of it isn't progressive at all.

[VioletS16]

When I check out prog metal bands on Youtube or something, a lot of the time I find that the singers' voices annoy me. They all sound very similar to me. For instance, I think the singers from Queensryche, Circus Maximus and Anubis Gate (just to name some) all have that somewhat annoyingly high-timbred voice. Whereas JLB's voice sounds quite distinct to me and I've never been annoyed with it (except the nasal sound on CiM).

Has anyone else experienced the "generic prog metal voice" syndrome and thinks that DT has avoided it with James, or have I not listened to the other guys enough to pick up on the nuances of their singing?

Sorry to be a noob, but what does CiM stand for? All these song abbreviations confuse me. To be honest, there's a lot of times where James sounds very nasally. I really don't know why, but it's most noticable 2005-2009 regions. He's a very good singer, but that one thing just annoys me. I know that he doesn't mean to sound that way, but he just does. 

That being said he's still one of my all-time favourite singers. When he's good, he's fantastic. Honestly I think he's a huge hit-or-miss, but I can't imagine any other singer for DT. Don't get me wrong: I love James to death. There are just times when he's not so great.
I stand by my belief that Score is better than any performance pre-94 accident, though.

[FretMuppet]

When I check out prog metal bands on Youtube or something, a lot of the time I find that the singers' voices annoy me. They all sound very similar to me. For instance, I think the singers from Queensryche, Circus Maximus and Anubis Gate (just to name some) all have that somewhat annoyingly high-timbred voice. Whereas JLB's voice sounds quite distinct to me and I've never been annoyed with it (except the nasal sound on CiM).

Has anyone else experienced the "generic prog metal voice" syndrome and thinks that DT has avoided it with James, or have I not listened to the other guys enough to pick up on the nuances of their singing?

Sorry to be a noob, but what does CiM stand for? All these song abbreviations confuse me. To be honest, there's a lot of times where James sounds very nasally. I really don't know why, but it's most noticable 2005-2009 regions. He's a very good singer, but that one thing just annoys me. I know that he doesn't mean to sound that way, but he just does. 

That being said he's still one of my all-time favourite singers. When he's good, he's fantastic. Honestly I think he's a huge hit-or-miss, but I can't imagine any other singer for DT. Don't get me wrong: I love James to death. There are just times when he's not so great.
I stand by my belief that Score is better than any performance pre-94 accident, though.

Chaos in Motion

[xeper]

Not to get too off-topic, but why do you think Geoff Tate doesn't sound as good these days? (Honest question, I don't keep up w/ post-Empire Queensryche.) Was his early technique bad enough that he did some damage, or does he just not take care of his voice anymore, or what? I don't know much about singing, it'd be interesting to me (not that anyone would have a definite answer) to know what happened, since w/ JLB we know he had his accident and we know he's improved greatly since. Anyway, JLB rules. It's a pleasure to hear him sing.

[VioletS16]

When I check out prog metal bands on Youtube or something, a lot of the time I find that the singers' voices annoy me. They all sound very similar to me. For instance, I think the singers from Queensryche, Circus Maximus and Anubis Gate (just to name some) all have that somewhat annoyingly high-timbred voice. Whereas JLB's voice sounds quite distinct to me and I've never been annoyed with it (except the nasal sound on CiM).

Has anyone else experienced the "generic prog metal voice" syndrome and thinks that DT has avoided it with James, or have I not listened to the other guys enough to pick up on the nuances of their singing?

Sorry to be a noob, but what does CiM stand for? All these song abbreviations confuse me. To be honest, there's a lot of times where James sounds very nasally. I really don't know why, but it's most noticable 2005-2009 regions. He's a very good singer, but that one thing just annoys me. I know that he doesn't mean to sound that way, but he just does. 

That being said he's still one of my all-time favourite singers. When he's good, he's fantastic. Honestly I think he's a huge hit-or-miss, but I can't imagine any other singer for DT. Don't get me wrong: I love James to death. There are just times when he's not so great.
I stand by my belief that Score is better than any performance pre-94 accident, though.

Chaos in Motion

You know what...I thought that to myself. Then I said to myself, "No, it doesn't fit".
What the heck am I doing today?!?!?

[FretMuppet]

 

[CrimsonE]

I don't understand the bashing of Geoff Tate.  In his late 80's early 90's prime, there were very few that were better.  In fact, I'd say that the Four Horsemen of metal vocals were Dickinson, Dio, Halford and Tate.  Unfortunately, Tate has fallen the furthest in terms of the consistent quality of his vocals, especially live.  While he's still better than a lot of the classic bands, he is clearly nowhere near his prime, unlike Dickinson, who still sounds awesome, Dio, who was killer on his last tour, and even Halford, who may have lost a step, but can still pull off the amazing vocals where needed.

One vocalist in the prog/power genre I can dig is Tom Englund from Evergrey.  While he may not have the biggest range of the prog metal singers, his voice is distinctive.  

Also, the former vocalist from Threshold, Andrew "Mac" McDermott, was simply amazing at his work.  He was particularly awesome with the ballads.  To this day, I'm still pissed that he left the band before I could see them at the ProgPowerfest 07 in Atlanta because I really wanted to see him live.  

[jsem]

I just thought of some one here.

John Arch.




/thread

[TL]

The thing a lot of prog bands don't seem to understand is that, in addition to being able to play, you need to have a unique sound. Most of them seem content to do exactly what a bunch of other prog bands are doing, which is ironic considering the genre.
There are so many bands out there who seem to use the same guitar tones, the same keyboard sounds, and sound like they have the same singer. It gets to the point where you have to wonder how they don't realize it.

It's one of the reasons I like DT as much as I do. They have a unique sound. As much as some other bands have tried to imitate them, there aren't any other bands out there that sound like Dream Theater.

[dongringo]

I don't understand the bashing of Geoff Tate.  In his late 80's early 90's prime, there were very few that were better.  In fact, I'd say that the Four Horsemen of metal vocals were Dickinson, Dio, Halford and Tate.  Unfortunately, Tate has fallen the furthest in terms of the consistent quality of his vocals, especially live.  While he's still better than a lot of the classic bands, he is clearly nowhere near his prime, unlike Dickinson, who still sounds awesome, Dio, who was killer on his last tour, and even Halford, who may have lost a step, but can still pull off the amazing vocals where needed.

One thing that seems to take it's toll on Geoff's voice is the intense tour schedules. They play every casino, hick town fair, and dive in between the bigger shows. He gets very few days off. I hope they do something about it before he destroys what's left of his voice. I saw QR 4 times in the last couple years and at two of the shows his voice sounded outstanding. One of those shows was at the very start of the tour and his voice was still fresh. The other one was the Empire Orchestra gig in Seattle after he had a few days rest. The other two shows were in the middle of several shows in a row and at the end of the tour when he was clearly struggling. I just don't understand why they don't seem to understand this. Or maybe they do, but are too greedy to turn down a gig for the sake of rest. I mean, just because there's a town, it doesn't mean they need to play there. Quality over quantity I say. But that's just me.

[Lowdz]

I don't understand the bashing of Geoff Tate.  In his late 80's early 90's prime, there were very few that were better.  In fact, I'd say that the Four Horsemen of metal vocals were Dickinson, Dio, Halford and Tate.  Unfortunately, Tate has fallen the furthest in terms of the consistent quality of his vocals, especially live.  While he's still better than a lot of the classic bands, he is clearly nowhere near his prime, unlike Dickinson, who still sounds awesome, Dio, who was killer on his last tour, and even Halford, who may have lost a step, but can still pull off the amazing vocals where needed.

One vocalist in the prog/power genre I can dig is Tom Englund from Evergrey.  While he may not have the biggest range of the prog metal singers, his voice is distinctive. 

Also, the former vocalist from Threshold, Andrew "Mac" McDermott, was simply amazing at his work.  He was particularly awesome with the ballads.  To this day, I'm still pissed that he left the band before I could see them at the ProgPowerfest 07 in Atlanta because I really wanted to see him live. 

I certainly don't think dickinson sounds awesome these days. On FF he sounded in pain.
i do rate Andrew Mac though.

[TAC]

I don't understand the bashing of Geoff Tate.  In his late 80's early 90's prime, there were very few that were better.  In fact, I'd say that the Four Horsemen of metal vocals were Dickinson, Dio, Halford and Tate.  Unfortunately, Tate has fallen the furthest in terms of the consistent quality of his vocals, especially live.  While he's still better than a lot of the classic bands,

Like which classic bands are you talking about?

[lithium112]

The thing a lot of prog bands don't seem to understand is that, in addition to being able to play, you need to have a unique sound. Most of them seem content to do exactly what a bunch of other prog bands are doing, which is ironic considering the genre.
There are so many bands out there who seem to use the same guitar tones, the same keyboard sounds, and sound like they have the same singer. It gets to the point where you have to wonder how they don't realize it.

It's one of the reasons I like DT as much as I do. They have a unique sound. As much as some other bands have tried to imitate them, there aren't any other bands out there that sound like Dream Theater.

Man, this is SO true. A lot of prog bands I've heard sound exactly like a band trying to imitate DT. They take some of the same transition types, sounds and instrument tones and then execute them as part of a worse song that DT.

[hefdaddy42]

I also prefer Dominici over JLB, he was just the better singer.

[abydos]

I just thought of some one here.

John Arch.




/thread

Midnight

/thread

James is also my absolute fav vocalist and I think that in his prime (before food poisoning) and if he hadn't suffered that incident he would have still been light years ahead of anyone else. I also absolutely adore the sound of his voice, not just the range.

[Perpetual Change]

No one in my opinion can top Tate when he was taking care of his voice and putting more effort into his singing. I also prefer Dominici over JLB, he was just the better singer.

Wow.

[i am fabio]

Well we are definately on a Dream Theater forum.

I want to first state that Dream Theater is my favorite band or at least hovers around the top 3 at all times.

James Labrie has a really cool voice and he does a good job but to say he is the best in the genre is unreal to me. I know it's subjectable so I understand but do the people who are saying that actually explore the genre or only know two bands?

Bands like Suspyre, Seventh Wonder, Evergrey, Opeth, Sieges Even, of course Symphony X and many many other bands have stronger vocals than Dream Theater. I mean John Arch is a beast!! Also somebody mentioned the old Threshold singer and I love that guy too! I went to that progpower in Atlanta from California and wished he was there.

As far as people saying the other bands are copying Dream Theater? UH DUUHHH! One of the best bands of the genre of all time with an array of different sounds I could see why these younger bands are influenced heavily by them especially in their first couple releases. The bands who stick around find themselves after the first two albums do their best to portray some of the biggest influences.

Also Jorn Lande is the best metal singer alive IMO right now. For those that havnt already go check out stuff he did with "Beyond Twilight." the album is called Devils Hall of Fame.

[rmp0012002]

Not to get too off-topic, but why do you think Geoff Tate doesn't sound as good these days? (Honest question, I don't keep up w/ post-Empire Queensryche.) Was his early technique bad enough that he did some damage, or does he just not take care of his voice anymore, or what? I don't know much about singing, it'd be interesting to me (not that anyone would have a definite answer) to know what happened, since w/ JLB we know he had his accident and we know he's improved greatly since. Anyway, JLB rules. It's a pleasure to hear him sing.

I see I caught hell for my Dominici comment but for WDADU it works. JLB is now synonymous with DT but I would have liked to have heard Charlie sign some of the stuff after WDADU like I&W.


Tate's problem is that he goes through periods where his workload is strenuous on his voice and he doesn't keep up his vocal training.  He reportedly is smoking again and looking back you can tell by his performances over the years where he was smoking and not taking care of his health.  He can't hit the signature octaves anymore and it affects the older stuff they play as well as limits new music they can write, which QR doesn't write anyway.

[LudwigVan]

I just saw Geoff Tate live a few months back.   Does he still go for those insane highs that he hit in the 80s/90s?  Not too much, but standing just a few rows back from the stage, his voice was still prettt-y dang good to my ears. 

[abydos]

You can hear CD sing Metropolis and/or The Killing Hand (live) from 89 or something like that. It was a crime against humanity to be honest. His voice barely "works" for a few of the songs on the album, but not at all for most of them.

As for Tate -  the guy should be put in jail for wasting his voice like that. What a crime/shame. Same goes for Ray Alder.

[Perpetual Change]

Bands like Suspyre, Seventh Wonder, Evergrey, Opeth, Sieges Even, of course Symphony X and many many other bands have stronger vocals than Dream Theater.

In terms of what?  Better at singing on key, range, or you just like their voice?

I mean John Arch is a beast!!

Okay, so range and ability to sing on key are definitely out.

[rumborak]

You can hear CD sing Metropolis and/or The Killing Hand (live) from 89 or something like that. It was a crime against humanity to be honest. His voice barely "works" for a few of the songs on the album, but not at all for most of them.

Holy cow, I just listened to that for the first time. That is just ridiculously bad.

rumborak

[Perpetual Change]

You can hear CD sing Metropolis and/or The Killing Hand (live) from 89 or something like that. It was a crime against humanity to be honest. His voice barely "works" for a few of the songs on the album, but not at all for most of them.

Holy cow, I just listened to that for the first time. That is just ridiculously bad.

rumborak

Yeah, that was horrendous, if I'm watching what yall are. Nicky could have pulled that off. And for some reason, metal purists seem to find that incarnation of Dream Theater to be much more tolerable.

There are two Dream Theaters here:

1.) The average prog metal band from the prog metal era during the mid-late 80s. Like every other wannabe metal band, they had a crappy vocalist but were pretty good instrumentally.

2.) The really, really good band with a great singer and great instrumentalists that took over prog-metal in the early 90s and changed it forever.

sidenote that'll cause a shitstorm: Kevin sounds horrendous too.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Also, am I the only one who thinks Russell Allen has one of the most boring, stereotypical voices in prog metal?

[pain of occupation]

so, like, edu falaschi ftw n junk.

[dongringo]

Not to get too off-topic, but why do you think Geoff Tate doesn't sound as good these days? (Honest question, I don't keep up w/ post-Empire Queensryche.) Was his early technique bad enough that he did some damage, or does he just not take care of his voice anymore, or what? I don't know much about singing, it'd be interesting to me (not that anyone would have a definite answer) to know what happened, since w/ JLB we know he had his accident and we know he's improved greatly since. Anyway, JLB rules. It's a pleasure to hear him sing.

I see I caught hell for my Dominici comment but for WDADU it works. JLB is now synonymous with DT but I would have liked to have heard Charlie sign some of the stuff after WDADU like I&W.


Tate's problem is that he goes through periods where his workload is strenuous on his voice and he doesn't keep up his vocal training.  He reportedly is smoking again and looking back you can tell by his performances over the years where he was smoking and not taking care of his health.  He can't hit the signature octaves anymore and it affects the older stuff they play as well as limits new music they can write, which QR doesn't write anyway.

American Soldier was written by Geoff Tate, Scott Rockenfield, and Jason Slater with contributors Kelly Gray and Damon Johnson. To say that "QR doesn't write" their own music just because they have contributors is an exaggeration. And is he really smoking? Or is this just a rumor? And how do we know that he doesn't keep up on his vocal training? Curious.

[lithium112]

Also, am I the only one who thinks Russell Allen has one of the most boring, stereotypical voices in prog metal?

I would tend to disagree cuz I think Russel Allen has a pretty outstanding voice, and one quite different from a lot of other prog metal bands. But I'm curious - are you talking about his earlier vocals (i.e. Divine Wings, Twilight etc.) or the newer, harsher vocals on Paradise Lost? Personally, I was a little disappointed with his "new" voice on Paradise when I first heard it, but it has grown on me a lot. And I think he was phenomenal on The Odyssey, along with the rest of the band.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Also, am I the only one who thinks Russell Allen has one of the most boring, stereotypical voices in prog metal?

I would tend to disagree cuz I think Russel Allen has a pretty outstanding voice, and one quite different from a lot of other prog metal bands. But I'm curious - are you talking about his earlier vocals (i.e. Divine Wings, Twilight etc.) or the newer, harsher vocals on Paradise Lost? Personally, I was a little disappointed with his "new" voice on Paradise when I first heard it, but it has grown on me a lot. And I think he was phenomenal on The Odyssey, along with the rest of the band.

It's more so directed at the newer ones.

[Perpetual Change]

Not to get too off-topic, but why do you think Geoff Tate doesn't sound as good these days? (Honest question, I don't keep up w/ post-Empire Queensryche.) Was his early technique bad enough that he did some damage, or does he just not take care of his voice anymore, or what? I don't know much about singing, it'd be interesting to me (not that anyone would have a definite answer) to know what happened, since w/ JLB we know he had his accident and we know he's improved greatly since. Anyway, JLB rules. It's a pleasure to hear him sing.

I see I caught hell for my Dominici comment but for WDADU it works. JLB is now synonymous with DT but I would have liked to have heard Charlie sign some of the stuff after WDADU like I&W.


Tate's problem is that he goes through periods where his workload is strenuous on his voice and he doesn't keep up his vocal training.  He reportedly is smoking again and looking back you can tell by his performances over the years where he was smoking and not taking care of his health.  He can't hit the signature octaves anymore and it affects the older stuff they play as well as limits new music they can write, which QR doesn't write anyway.

American Soldier was written by Geoff Tate, Scott Rockenfield, and Jason Slater with contributors Kelly Gray and Damon Johnson. To say that "QR doesn't write" their own music just because they have contributors is an exaggeration.

Maybe, but it's an exaggeration to call that Queenryche.

Imagine if, 10 years from now, James was writing the majority of new Dream Theater albums with outside writers, and Jordan and Mike's replacement were also writing a little bit. And Petrucci was gone. I guess if they were still calling themselves DT we'd have to as well.

[dongringo]

Not to get too off-topic, but why do you think Geoff Tate doesn't sound as good these days? (Honest question, I don't keep up w/ post-Empire Queensryche.) Was his early technique bad enough that he did some damage, or does he just not take care of his voice anymore, or what? I don't know much about singing, it'd be interesting to me (not that anyone would have a definite answer) to know what happened, since w/ JLB we know he had his accident and we know he's improved greatly since. Anyway, JLB rules. It's a pleasure to hear him sing.

I see I caught hell for my Dominici comment but for WDADU it works. JLB is now synonymous with DT but I would have liked to have heard Charlie sign some of the stuff after WDADU like I&W.


Tate's problem is that he goes through periods where his workload is strenuous on his voice and he doesn't keep up his vocal training.  He reportedly is smoking again and looking back you can tell by his performances over the years where he was smoking and not taking care of his health.  He can't hit the signature octaves anymore and it affects the older stuff they play as well as limits new music they can write, which QR doesn't write anyway.

American Soldier was written by Geoff Tate, Scott Rockenfield, and Jason Slater with contributors Kelly Gray and Damon Johnson. To say that "QR doesn't write" their own music just because they have contributors is an exaggeration.

Maybe, but it's an exaggeration to call that Queenryche.

Imagine if, 10 years from now, James was writing the majority of new Dream Theater albums with outside writers, and Jordan and Mike's replacement were also writing a little bit. And Petrucci was gone. I guess if they were still calling themselves DT we'd have to as well.

Good point.