Who will do Mike's live vocals on the next tour?

[Ħ]

I think Mike-only parts will be covered by JP.  And when they are doing chords, either it'll be the new drummer or JR will cover the lower register.

[Global Laziness]

I think it depends entirely on who the new drummer is. If he can handle it, I'd bet that he'll do it.

[ricky]

All I can really say is that they won't be triggered. Definitely not.

Either Petrucci, who, if you didn't know, has an awesome voice, really. The new drummer is a faint possibility, in my opinion, but unlikely. I think it boils down to either Petrucci doing them, or it not happening at all.

[rmp0012002]

Mike's backing vocals are fine but his singing on his own is irritating.  It just comes across as growling which personally brings nothing to the songs.  JP, who can sing, could do them but I would rather just see them avoid them.

[Tunnel Vision]

Here is a link to Mike's original post (with mp3 links) showing two possible ANTR sections and the end product.
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2352022&mpage=1#2352022

[Adami]

Here is a link to Mike's original post (with mp3 links) showing two possible ANTR sections and the end product.
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2352022&mpage=1#2352022

James plus Portnoy sounded.....awful. But if James had sang it alone it might have sounded fine.

[ricky]

Dude seriously, how can you not say MP was not a control freak. He's an awesome drummer, musician....

But I have to say, he must have seriously been difficult to work with.

[Global Laziness]

Here is a link to Mike's original post (with mp3 links) showing two possible ANTR sections and the end product.
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2352022&mpage=1#2352022

James plus Portnoy sounded.....awful. But if James had sang it alone it might have sounded fine.

Maybe that's what they'll end up doing in the future.

[Adami]

I'd be fine with that.


Hell, I'd be cool with some re-writes to other songs as well. Why the hell not, right?

[ricky]

why can't we all be friends?

[Adami]

why can't we all be friends?

Huh?

[ricky]

why can't we all be friends?

Huh?

that's wierd. you like reggae, and prog.

kinda of a cool mixture.

edit: lol @ "kinda of."

[Adami]

Seems like youre just spamming now.

[ricky]

Seems like youre just spamming now.

if I'm spamming, then why are you quoting spam?

Can someone post a "pwned" pic?

Oh bosk, I just realized your avatar is an ewok, not a wookie. my bad, bro.

[Global Laziness]

Hell, I'd be cool with some re-writes to other songs as well. Why the hell not, right?

Well they'd have to be pretty minor so as to avoid fan outrage, like the extra verse from the demo of Lines in the Sand.

[Adami]

Hell, I'd be cool with some re-writes to other songs as well. Why the hell not, right?

Well they'd have to be pretty minor so as to avoid fan outrage, like the extra verse from the demo of Lines in the Sand.

Well for instance, they can just avoid songs like CM and so forth, but if they ever want to play PoW again, they could have some fun and re-write portnoys rappy part.

[antigoon]

They can just use the excuse that it's some obscure demo version.

[ricky]

Hell, I'd be cool with some re-writes to other songs as well. Why the hell not, right?

Well they'd have to be pretty minor so as to avoid fan outrage, like the extra verse from the demo of Lines in the Sand.

He was making fun of you, man. Which is why I said "why can't we all be friends?" You have to stand up to bullies.

See!

[Adami]

I wasn't making fun of anyone. I was being sincere.

[ricky]

I wasn't making fun of anyone. I was being sincere.

Well, if you were being sincere, I apologize. In the more probable case that you were being sarcastic once more, I say let's be friends.


Edit: jtlyk, im not being a smart-ass! were all DT fans, why can't we all be nice to eachother? kthankx.

[Adami]

I just said I was being sincere, how is it less probable?

[ricky]

I just said I was being sincere, how is it less probable?

my brain is fried.

by the way, i must say you are good at replying fast.

Test...best song on Images?

[ricky]

*posts "I see what you did there" pic.*

[The Dark Master]

If they are backing/ counterpoint vocals, I don't see any reason why someone in the band can't just sing them.  Petrucci already does a lot of backing vox anyways, and maybe Jordan or the new guy could help layer the chords for those part.  Either way I don't really see this being a big issue.

As for the "hardcore" vocal parts, the band basically has three options: James can sing them (preferably in a clean, but still gruff voice); they could just not play those songs or omit those sections from the songs live (honestly, I don't think anyone will miss the "Day after day...." part of ANTR); or the could have someone else can sing them (Probably Petrucci or Rudess, I think having the new guy do it may rub some fans the wrong way).  It is worth noting that a number of songs that are particularly personal to Portnoy, specifically the 12 Step Suite and The Best of Times, may never be played live again without him in the band, so that would eliminate the need of having to find a solutions to those songs.  As for the others, like Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night or The Count of Tuscany, it may sound different, but I think those songs could sound fine without the MP vocals.  James could just use his own aggressive vocal style for those parts, or Pestrucci and/or Rudess could do them if they really insist on having those parts sung by a different guy.  But saying that they will just automatically drop all songs with Portnoy vox is silly; it would be like saying they would never play Lines In The Sand without Doug Pinnick.

[ariich]

Yeah, for me, it's that "tough guy" voice that really makes me cringe. His normal background vocals and his vocals in Transatlantic are passable, but certainly not irreplaceable.

I just hope that "no flaming Mike Portnoy" (which I fully support) doesn't turn into "no saying anything bad about anything Mike did during his time in DT." They're too completely different things

Indeed they are, and there's no problem with "I thought this aspect of what Portnoy did was bad". But unfortunately you and Rumbo went down the "surely anyone who isn't a fanboy is embarrassed by this" route instead, which is less cool.

EDIT: Also, ricky, can you stop spamming please.

[wolfking]

Here is a link to Mike's original post (with mp3 links) showing two possible ANTR sections and the end product.
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2352022&mpage=1#2352022

Mike's Opeth death growl on that first link is the most awful attempt at death growls I've ever heard.    If this is the stuff he was putting to the band, no wonder the band are happy to move on without him.  By the way, I'm a HUGE death metal fan.

[rumborak]

Yeah, for me, it's that "tough guy" voice that really makes me cringe. His normal background vocals and his vocals in Transatlantic are passable, but certainly not irreplaceable.

I just hope that "no flaming Mike Portnoy" (which I fully support) doesn't turn into "no saying anything bad about anything Mike did during his time in DT." They're too completely different things

Indeed they are, and there's no problem with "I thought this aspect of what Portnoy did was bad". But unfortunately you and Rumbo went down the "surely anyone who isn't a fanboy is embarrassed by this" route instead, which is less cool.

Well, there's always the choice to say "I happen to like it!", and that's cool. But it's like liking a McDonald's hamburger; sure you might like it because of personal preference, but eventually there's an objective aspect to it that shows it's not good food. And that's the same I feel about Mike's vocals. He sings nasally, and his pitch is often all over the place. There are quite a few live DVD recordings that were marred by his bad singing. (LSFAM springs to mind)
I'm not saying you should start disliking his vocal efforts; but I think you will agree that it's more in the realm of "inexplicable personal preference" since objectively, he is a sub-par singer. And keep in mind that we're not talking Phish or The Rolling Stones here, where a couple of missed notes are almost part of the intended performance. DT is a band that defines itself through musical excellence at every single second. Mike's vocals were almost ludicrous against that background.

rumborak

[ariich]

I disagree, particularly with regard to the studio recordings. Yeah live he's pretty weak, as is JP, and indeed as was JLB for a long time! So if we're talking "objectively" then they're all sub-par singers. But on the studio recordings he has always been perfectly in tune as far as I'm aware, unless you can find timestamps that prove otherwise. Of course he isn't a great singer, but I've never noticed anything on the studio albums that could be called sub-par technically.

As for being nasal, there's nothing objective about whether that is "sub-par" or not. For example, objectively an opera singer can have incredible technique, but in reality sound hideous and warbley. As I said, when it comes down to it nobody in DT is a great singer in terms of technique, but many people love JLB because of the qualities his voice has, which is ultimately subjective.

And yeah, of course we can chip in to say that we like it (I don't love it, but I quite like his vocals for the most part as usually they are used well - although PoW is a definite blemish), but when you start out by questioning the integrity of anyone who disagrees with you, it doesn't exactly make people want to bother. Which surprises me, as I've always considered you very fair and intelligent in discussions before.

[rumborak]

I disagree, particularly with regard to the studio recordings. Yeah live he's pretty weak, as is JP, and indeed as was JLB for a long time! So if we're talking "objectively" then they're all sub-par singers. But on the studio recordings he has always been perfectly in tune as far as I'm aware, unless you can find timestamps that prove otherwise. Of course he isn't a great singer, but I've never noticed anything on the studio albums that could be called sub-par technically.

I agree that the album recordings are mostly passable. Except his stuff on the early Transatlantic albums; there's some really bad stuff on there where he just slides into the pitches all over the place, where I had the impression they let him sing because they didn't dare deny it from him (since everybody else in the band was singing).
Regarding JLB, no, he was never a bad singer. He was struggling with a broken instrument, and while his post-Awake performances were often too at best passable, his mastery of the instrument always shone through.

As for being nasal, there's nothing objective about whether that is "sub-par" or not. For example, objectively an opera singer can have incredible technique, but in reality sound hideous and warbley. As I said, when it comes down to it nobody in DT is a great singer in terms of technique, but many people love JLB because of the qualities his voice has, which is ultimately subjective.

Indeed, it's the plain difference between subjective and objective. One might like Mike's nasal singing, but I don't think a lot of people do in the end, as there is a reason why vocal teachers instruct their students to project with their voice.

but when you start out by questioning the integrity of anyone who disagrees with you, it doesn't exactly make people want to bother. Which surprises me, as I've always considered you very fair and intelligent in discussions before.

Well, I do have to admit that I was slightly intentionally brash with my response, partly because PC was being attacked so harshly for a comment I felt wasn't too far off the mark. I personally have the impression that Mike's central role in DT shielded him from a lot of justified criticism regarding his vocal performance. I am sure people will say "OMG, no, he got more flak than he deserved!!", but I think it's the other way around. Again, DT is comprised of musicians of the highest degree; suddenly you have this guy singing into a microphone whose performance is about highschool level.

rumborak

[Ħ]

Mike has improved when he sings both backup and lead lines.  Just check out The Whirlwind!

[Perpetual Change]

You know, I think the fact that days after the release of Black Clouds Mike wrote out a defense of his ANtR vocals which he prefaced by saying [sic] "I knew the fans would go crazy over this but just hear me out..." is pretty telling as to where DT fans collectively are for the most part in regards to MP lead vocals. There's something about that which to me just describes outrage at worst and lukewarm hesistancy at best.

[rumborak]

Mike has improved when he sings both backup and lead lines.  Just check out The Whirlwind!

Well, now it's too late

rumborak

[Tunnel Vision]

I've always enjoyed DT's backing vocal sections and thought they fit in very well within the song (I dont' particularly like a nightmare to remember though). I like MP's backing vocals in The Whirlwind also, one section that always stands out to me is in Rose Colored Glasses..."And I don't belive I wear rose colored glasses."

[Cool Chris]

You know, I think the fact that days after the release of Black Clouds Mike wrote out a defense of his ANtR vocals which he prefaced by saying [sic] "I knew the fans would go crazy over this but just here me out..." is pretty telling as to where DT fans collectively are for the most part in regards to MP lead vocals. There's something about that which to me just describes outrage at worst and lukewarm hesistancy at best.

Not to mention, when you feel the need to defend yourself before anyone actually criticizes you, that's never a good sign

On topic, how Mike's vocals will be handled live was never even a remote concern on my part once the news came down. A group of 5 professional musicians will be able to handle the change well enough. Anyway, why do Mike's vocals need to recreated exactly as he did them? 

[Nekov]

They can always use the cookie monster!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6msQ_y213JU