Quick boring poll...

[orcus116]

Well, I was going to say BC&SL is far above SC, but now I have to be careful, I think I see TOX and Orcus in the bushes, waiting to pounce.

I'm not that passionate about either album to care enough.

[tri.ad]

BCASL for me. I really like most songs on it, while I never feel any need to listen to a song that's on SC (well, maybe ITPOE Pt. 1, but that's about it).

[Zydar]

Definitely Black Clouds. On my DT album ranking list BCSL would be #5 while SC would be #9 (just above the debut).

[Global Laziness]

I like both, but prefer BC&SL by a landslide.

This.

[Amoniz]

I love BC&SL, but I'm gonna make my decision based on dedicating points to 5 factors regarding certain issues/fondness I have for both SC & BC&SL songs...
The song scores represent:
5 = perfect
3 = good
1 = average
-1 = weak
-3 = disappointing
[These is just my personal opinion; & you should now even bad or terrible DT songs rank high comparing to most of what we hear everyday!]

SC:
ITPOE 1:
Great harmonies (+1), technical side (+1), cool 'fresh (although resmebling The killing hand)' lyrics for DT (+1), creativity despite the length (+1), James' vocals (+1) = 5

Forsaken:
Jordan's piano (+1), LaBrie's vocals (+1), Petrucci's solo (+1) = 3, radio-friendly nature (-1), vamp-fiction through lyrics (+1) = 3

Constant motion :
Portnoy's drumming (+1), Portnoy's singing (+1), LaBrie's singing (-1), Jordan's same old whacky solo (-1), lacking the "DT" spirit (-1) = -1

The dark eternal night:
way-apparent groove metal influence (-1), Petrucci's guitar riffs & solos (+1), James/Mike vocal duo (-1), Jordan's middle-eastern sounding parts (+1), Lovecraftian lyrics (+1) = 1

Repentance:
the music becomes repetetive at times (-1), the 12-step concept -lyrics- (+1), confessional vocal samples (-1), Myung's parts (+1), the atmosphere (+1) = 1

Prophets of war:
somehow cheesy lyrics - basically the play on "Prophets" & "Profit"! (-1), contemporary metal influence (-1), Portnoy rap (+1), Labrie's vocals (+1), good harmonies and melodies, but so much emphasized (-1) = -1

The ministry of lost souls:
Lack of excitement despite the length (-1), Petrucci's fictional lyrics (+1), Petrucci's solo in the end (+1), the "DT-style" instrumental section (+1), Jordan's symphonic intro (-1) = 1

ITPOE 2:
Lyrics, again (+1), James' vocals in "heretic" (+1), reappearance of highlighted moments from ITPOE (+1), the instrumental section (Reckoning) repeats itself at times (-1), Myung's basslines throughout the song (+1) = 3

SC scored 12 in total, having 1 perfect song, 2 good songs, 3 average songs & 2 weak songs. Although you can count ITPOE as 1 song. I'm giving points to tracks here.


BC&SL:

A nightmare to remember:
song's uner heavy nature, which doesn't become emphasized or Non-DT and keeps the listener excited (+1), JP's narrative lyrics, and the way it matches the music parts (+1), "Hopelessly drifting, bathing in beautiful agony" chorus & the whole 'hospital' secion (+1), JP/JR dual harmonies (+1), Mike's drumming + rapping / which is way better than the original version with James vocals singing "day after day" IMO (+1) = 5

A rite of passage:
Freemasonry stuff (+1), excessive riff repetition at times (-1), the thrashy section + JP's solo (+1), Jordan's solos / although the riff beneath his opening to the Nintendo 64 -whatever- is quite awesome (-1), guitars underneath "Philosophers & leaders..." verse (+1) = 1

Wither:
the chorus, radio-friendly nature (-1), JP's lyrics, somehow hinting at his & Kevin's lyrics in their first albums (+1), Lack of progressive moments, comparing to songs like Innocence faded or Surrounded (-1), Portnoy's drumming which stays put to the song's atmosphere (+1), "the chorus on top of the piano" part before the solo (-1) = -1

The shattered fortress:
James/Mike duo recalling TGP & TDS (+1), musical/lyrical references to the 12-step suite (+1), Jordan's solo - which is kinda no different than the one in AROP or ANTR in general (-1), JP's new solo on top of the Root of all evil riff - which's better than the original solo in 8VM (+1), "Responsible" section & the way it links to TGP (+1) = 3

The best of times:
James' vocals delivering Mike's personal lyrics with heart & soul (+1), Petrucci's outro solo, of course (+1), Jordan's keyboard parts (+1), the elevating rapid guitar part before the first verse, seems kinda forced (-1), Song mood + time-sign shifts occur at the right moment (+1) = 3

The count of Tuscany:
The narrative yet goofy lyrics, which kinda fit the tricky melodies & the "Haunted castle-Scooby doo!" atmosphere of the song (+1), Every Petrucci guitar part, the riffs, solos, acoustic moments, ambient sounds... (+1), Jordan's contribution, that stands out comparing to the remaining songs in the album (+1), the unison after the 2nd chorus, which hints at the diminished chords-based Petrucci solo-ette which is yet to come (+1), Portnoy's drumming, especially before the verses (+1) = 5

BC&SL scored 16 in total, having 2 perfect songs, 2 good songs, 1 average & 1 weak song.

So I guess, overall, BC&SL is a better album, having 4 above average songs. (SC has 3)

[?]

Black Clouds & Silver Linings by miles! Even the best songs on SC have something weak about them.

[Global Laziness]

Wither:
JP's lyrics, somehow hinting at his & Kevin's lyrics in their first albums

Um...Wither was written about writer's block, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with Kevin.

[Adami]

SC:
ITPOE 1:
Great harmonies (+1), technical side (+1), cool 'fresh (although resmebling The killing hand)' lyrics for DT (+1), creativity despite the length (+1), James' vocals (+1) = 5

Forsaken:
Jordan's piano (+1), LaBrie's vocals (-1), Petrucci's solo (-1) = 3, radio-friendly nature (-1), vamp-fiction through lyrics (-1) = -3

Constant motion :
Portnoy's drumming (+1), Portnoy's singing (-1), LaBrie's singing (-1), Jordan's same old whacky solo (-1), lacking the "DT" spirit (-1) = -3

The dark eternal night:
way-apparent groove metal influence (-1), Petrucci's guitar riffs & solos (-1), James/Mike vocal duo (-1), Jordan's middle-eastern sounding parts (-1), Lovecraftian lyrics (-1) = -5

Repentance:
the music becomis awesome (+1), the 12-step concept -lyrics- (+1), confessional vocal samples (+1), Myung's parts (+1), the atmosphere (+1) = 5

Prophets of war:
somehow cheesy lyrics - basically the play on "Prophets" & "Profit"! (-1), contemporary metal influence (-1), Portnoy rap (-1), Labrie's vocals (+1), good harmonies and melodies, but so much emphasized (-1) = -3

The ministry of lost souls:
Lack of excitement despite the length (-1), Petrucci's fictional lyrics (+1), Petrucci's solo in the end (+1), the "DT-style" instrumental section (-1), Jordan's symphonic intro (+1) = 1

ITPOE 2:
Lyrics, again (-1), James' vocals in "heretic" (+1), reappearance of highlighted moments from ITPOE (+1), the instrumental section (Reckoning) repeats itself at times (-1), Myung's basslines throughout the song (+1) = 1

SC scored -2 in total, having 2 perfect songs, 0 good songs, 2 average songs & 3 weak songs (and one abortion). Although you can count ITPOE as 1 song. I'm giving points to tracks here.


BC&SL:

A nightmare to remember:
song's uber heavy nature, which doesn't become emphasized or Non-DT and keeps the listener excited (+1), JP's narrative lyrics, and the way it matches the music parts (-1), "Hopelessly drifting, bathing in beautiful agony" chorus & the whole 'hospital' secion (+1), JP/JR dual harmonies (+1), Mike's drumming + rapping / which is way better than the original version with James vocals singing "day after day" IMO (-1) = 1

A rite of passage:
Freemasonry stuff (-1), excessive riff repetition at times (-1), the thrashy section + JP's solo (+1), Jordan's solos / although the riff beneath his opening to the Nintendo 64 -whatever- is quite awesome (-1), guitars underneath "Philosophers & leaders..." verse (+1) = -1

Wither:
the chorus, radio-friendly nature (+1), JP's lyrics (+1), Lack of progressive moments, comparing to songs like Innocence faded or Surrounded (+1), Portnoy's drumming which stays put to the song's atmosphere (+1), "the chorus on top of the piano" part before the solo (+1) = 5

The shattered fortress:
James/Mike duo recalling TGP & TDS (+1), musical/lyrical references to the 12-step suite (+1), Jordan's solo - which is kinda no different than the one in AROP or ANTR in general (-1), JP's new solo on top of the Root of all evil riff - which's better than the original solo in 8VM (+1), "Responsible" section & the way it links to TGP (+1) = 3

The best of times:
James' vocals delivering Mike's personal lyrics with heart & soul (+1), Petrucci's outro solo, of course (+1), Lyrics (-1), the elevating rapid guitar part before the first verse(+1), Song mood + time-sign shifts occur at the right moment (+1) = 3

The count of Tuscany:
The narrative yet goofy lyrics, which kinda fit the tricky melodies & the "Haunted castle-Scooby doo!" atmosphere of the song (-1), Every Petrucci guitar part, the riffs, solos, acoustic moments, ambient sounds... (+1), Jordan's contribution, that stands out comparing to the remaining songs in the album (+1), the unison after the 2nd chorus, which hints at the diminished chords-based Petrucci solo-ette which is yet to come (+1), Portnoy's drumming, especially before the verses (+1) = 3

BC&SL scored 14 in total, having 1 perfect song, 3 good songs, 1 average & 1 weak song.

So I guess, overall, BC&SL is a better album, having 4 above average songs. (SC has 1)

Fixed it for me.

[Lowdz]

BC&SL for me. No songs I ever skip, unlike SC where I skip the middle of the album every time (CM,DEN,R). Some definite highs on SC (MoLS, Forsaken, ITPoE) so I do play it, but not a huge favourite. Forsaken is one of my Favourite DT songs and should have been a duet with Sharon Den Adel of Within Temptation. Needed a better video and could have been a hit if the vampire theme had been played better. Vampires are cool!!! The manga was terrible.

[Amoniz]

Wither:
JP's lyrics, somehow hinting at his & Kevin's lyrics in their first albums

Um...Wither was written about writer's block, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with Kevin.

no, I mean the 'style' of the lyrics is similar to their earlier stuff. The meaning's got nothing to do with them, as far as we're concerned.

[RuRoRul]

Black Clouds and Silver Linings. Not by much, In The Presence Of Enemies and The Ministry Of Lost Souls are two of the best DT songs but apart from that the album ranges from average to boring. Black Clouds And Silver Linings is a little bit more consistent.

[Darkes7]

BC&SL is very good and very solid, but I love Systematic Chaos for being a daring step forward and for succeeding in a lot of things which were completely new for DT. And for being the album that was the ultimate "gtfo" to those who couldn't accept anything that's not I&W.

[no I'm not suggesting anything or trying to start anything. Just saying my opinion. - in order to avoid any suggestions]

[energythief]

Systematic Chaos is wonderful, where Black Clouds is their 2nd worst (worst of the LaBrie-DT albums)

[tri.ad]

BC&SL is very good and very solid, but I love Systematic Chaos for being a daring step forward and for succeeding in a lot of things which were completely new for DT. And for being the album that was the ultimate "gtfo" to those who couldn't accept anything that's not I&W.

[no I'm not suggesting anything or trying to start anything. Just saying my opinion. - in order to avoid any suggestions]

Your little disclaimer won't work.

[Darkes7]

Not my problem, I simply won't reply if someone uses that as an excuse. I feel I can say what I want even if it's different than usual.

[Kosmo]

I chose Black Clouds, but now that i think about it i think i prefer SC..

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Not my problem, I simply won't reply if someone uses that as an excuse. I feel I can say what I want even if it's different than usual.

It's kind of dumb though. I don't think there's one member registered to this forum who can't "accept anything that's not I&W".

Now, if you said, "couldn't accept anything post-2002", you might have a point.

[Darkes7]

I didn't even say it's directed towards anyone on this board, but of course...

Nvm, I knew posting in this subforum is not a good idea.

[atmyne]

I voted SC. With these two albums, I think the best song from either of them is the Count. But with BC&SL, I wont listen to any other tracks on it with the exception of wither. With SC, I like ITPOE (both parts), I do like Forsaken and prophets of war, and the ministry of lost souls is really good. And yes, I would rather listen to Forsaken and/or prophets of war over Nightmare to remember/shattered fortress/best of times. Also, I would have constant motion over rite of passage any day.

speaking of silver linings, with Mike gone, hopefully we wont see any "singles" (unless thats something that is part of the Road Runner contract) on the next album, leaving more space for lesser radio friendly, proggy madness  

[Adami]

You'll see plenty of singles on the next tour, mostly because Petrucci isn't stupid.

[Zantera]

I dislike both these albums tbh, so the choice is hard just because of that.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I didn't even say it's directed towards anyone on this board, but of course...

Nvm, I knew posting in this subforum is not a good idea.

I apologize for inferring.

Then again, I don't think there's a person in the whole world who can't "accept anything that's not I&W", so...

[orcus116]

Man Darkes you were doing so well. Please stop posting those sentences that clearly show you want to start a nasty argument.

[Plasmastrike]

Forums are really hard for Darkes, guys. Come on.

[Mladen]

Systematic Chaos

I'd rank them both quite high, though.

[Ħ]

The Count of Tuscany
A Nightmare to Remember
In the Presence of Enemies
The Shattered Fortress
Constant Motion
The Ministry of Lost Souls
The Best of Times
Repentance
Wither
The Dark Eternal Night
A Rite of Passage
Forsaken
Prophets of War

Black Clouds wins simply because it only has one song that is potential garbage.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

SC is amazing and BCaSL is good.

[toro]

SC has 2 and a half songs I hate, 3 mediocre  songs and Repentance & ITPOE pt.1.

Then BC&SL has one song I dislike, 2 mediocre songs, and the rest is amazing especially TCOT.

BC&SL wins by miles

[juice]

BC&SL

[pmahoney1337]

I went with BC&SL. Neither may be DT's best, but I could never say they suck. There are songs on both I may push-aside when going through the albums, but they certainly don't suck. There just those songs I can only listen to every once in a while, every band has them.

[chaotic_ripper]

Awake
Images and Words
Falling Into Infinity
Scenes From a Memory
Systematic Chaos
When Dream and Day Unite
Black Clouds and Silver Linings
Six Degrees
Train of Thought
Octavarium

[hefdaddy42]

Black Clouds & Silver Linings

[RoeDent]

Black Clouds & Silver Linings

[Bertielee]

Non of them is a good album for me. I've only listened to each of them about 4 times at most and have not done so since. Now, I've begun losing interest in the band since Octavarium which was the first album I skipped tracks on.

B.Lee

[Perpetual Change]

I came to the conclusion the other day that ITPOE is just as good as most other DT epics. So sue me.