Musings on JM's Bass Mixes and Role in the DT Sound

[ReaPsTA]

I don't think I'm in the minority when I say I wish JM had more of an impact in Dream Theater. On Dream Theater's first four albums, the man was a machine, consistently finding the most interesting way to solidify the emotion and groove of the music. Starting with Scenes From a Memory, it was never the same. All the Rudess era albums have great bass moments, but more and more it seems like JM's either doubling the guitar and the keyboards and just sinking into the mix rather than adding to the song. Don't believe me? Quick, get out your copies of Awake and BCSL and listen to some bass moments:

Caught in a Web - 1:39 to 1:53
Notice how the bass is doubling the drums and adding to the groove while the guitar and keys lay down the chords. Now, let's go to

The Shattered Fortress 8:24 to 8:49
In this case, the bass is doubling the guitar while the piano and drums outline the groove/feel. In this case, it's arguable that anything more than root notes would overload the sound, but why isn't JM at least matching the phrasing of the rhythm?

Now, in fairness to BCSL, most of the time the bass doubles the drums when the guitar is playing chords, but even so, you can't really hear it except in A Rite of Passage and the chorus of The Count of Tuscany. I can't distinguish the basslines during the chorus and bridge of Wither without listening to the stem. And I can hear bass in Systematic Chaos, so I'd like to think I could find it if it was there.

Simplicity can be good. I actually like how in The Count of Tuscany from 1:42 - 2:02 the bass only outlines the chords. With the drums, guitar, and keyboards all going crazy, something has to lay down the basic feel of the song.

The Silent Man - 2:25 to 2:53
This is one of the most subtle and underrated JM moments in the DT catalog. With just a few subtle bass slides and notes, he makes the feel different from the previous verses and helps the build to the final chorus. Now lets roll to

The Best of Times - 7:28 to 8:23
Okay, so we hear the bass doing cool things. Then comes the really nice slidey bass groove under "Life goes by in the blink of an eye." And then the bass... goes away??? If you listen, it's there doing cool things, but for some reason it's purposefully mixed out of the sound. Same thing applies to the acoustic section of The Count of Tuscany. There's actually a really cool thing going on with the bass where it makes this interesting not quite harmonic but buzzy noise to fill the sound, but it's super hard to hear. For some reason, during the acoustic moments on this album, the bass is more there because it has to be than to add anything to the sound. One more example.

Innocence Faded - 1:53 to 2:11
I love this groove so much. Interestingly, the somewhat low bass mix works here because the bass isn't really meant to be part of the primary aesthetics of the verse, so it doubles the drums to add to the groove in a subtle way and make secondary emotion. It's a cool piece of writing. The first verse has another great moment where the drums and bass lay down the groove together. I wonder how many moments there are like that on BCSL.

A Nightmare to Remember 5:46 - 6:14 (and the second verse of this section)
This is the only one. Yeah, there are many moments where the drums and bass lay down the rhythm under the guitar and keyboards, but this is the only really prominent example example of the drums and bass doubling each other to make a groove (in AROP they each do their own thing, which works in a different way, but isn't what I'm talking about). I mean, what? Really? Aren't classic rock bands judged by how tightly their drummer and bassist locked together for a reason? It's not like MP and JM don't have good chemistry together. Trial of Tears, In the Presence of Enemies Part 2 (they don't directly interlock, but play off each other indirectly to create a distinctive groove that exists as more than just bass information under the guitar), the crazy ending part of Lie. It's there, but what happened to it?

You know what DT album arguably has the best bass mix? I guess I'd go with Awake. But I want to be interesting and direct your attention toward...


wait for it...


Train of Thought.

If you don't have a subwoofer, I guess this won't make sense. But flip on Honor Thy Father, and notice how utterly massive the guitar chugs sound. Listen from 3:11 - 3:19. When the bass drops out, the low end actually feels noticeably vacant. Keep going if you want, and notice how prominently the bass accents the drums.

"But ReaPsTA," pretend people I'm making up in my mind are asking, "JM has lots of creative bass parts on Systematic Chaos like the end of Repentance and the beginning of In The Presence of Enemies Part 2. Wouldn't you rather have that?" Well, thank you for moving the structure of the post along, but I'm not almost not sure.

The worst part of listening to a lot of new DT music is how much impact it lacks because the bass is so trebly and kinda not there in the mix. I'm usually not in the mood to listen to Train of Thought, but when I am it's really fun. The whole mix is put together so all the instruments have the proper impact. Even in the huge chorus for In The Name of God, you can hear the bass at work doing its thing. And then when the second verse kicks in, holy crap is it deep, dark, and positively metal sounding.

Maybe I'm a music dork and I'm overrating the sound of the bass. But let me spin it this way, when was bass most prominent in rock music? The 60's and 70's. When was rock music the most popular? The 60's and 70's. I'm probably thinking more about bass in music in this one post than most people do their whole lives, but the music people like to hear clearly demonstrates that bass is pleasing to the ear.

I don't really care how many bass leads and distortion pads or even grooves there are on the next DT album. It's a creative decision that I have no real place to complain about (even though I do sometimes). But as a music listener, I really wish the music was recorded and mixed so the bass is doing what it should be doing and adding to the sound. Without changing the music at all creatively, it's more interesting to hear. Why not?

[Kosmo]

For some reason i always try to pick the bass out of the song, and i'm not even a bass player..Atleast yet. 

And yes, i agree. I would love to hear more of Myung, because the man has the skills. 

[7StringedBeast]

Reap, I agree that TOT has the best bass sound and mix out of all the DT albums, FII coming in second place.  I love how massive the bass is on ToT.

Secondly, Kosmos, your avatar is deeply disturbing

EDIT:  I think this was my 1000th post

[Kosmo]

I think it's adorable.

[Dream Team]

I find that when the bass is doing great things in a song, it's hard to pay attention to anything else.

[Kosmo]

Bass is pretty much the spine of the music. Without it, the music would collapse.

Or something. 

[ScioPath]

  =  :antisamsara:  +

[Seventh Son]

  =  :antisamsara:  +

I hate you.

[tri.ad]

Yeah, the bass is just massive on TOT.

Regarding the problems with the audibility of the bass on BCASL, I think it's mostly because of the heavy use of the distortion effect. Compared to the Yamaha RBX-JM2, the Music Man Bongo cuts through in the mix with more ease, but interestingly, you can't really make him out as well as you could on FII, (partially) SDOIT or TOT; it might very well be the distortion effect. A side effect from that is that it cuts away the low end and high frequencies, so the possibilites to make it easily distinguishable are almost nullified, considering the heavy amount of distortion JM seems to be using nowadays.

As an example: If you remember the concert video of Peruvian Skies, the short bass fill that sounded really cool just became white noise with some crackling in there.

Of course, in a live setting, there's always more distortion and stuff that can hinder the instruments from sounding great. But this was just preposterous, to be honest. Such an amount of distortion just isn't the best option.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It's great you brought it up, ReaP. I hadn't payed enough attention to the bass mix in TOT and I've got to say, I'm quite impressed. The lower ends of the mix really do bring the song up to whole new levels of sonic power. Say what you want about TOT, but the truth is that if you crank it up real loud and rock along with it, you're in for a cool metal experience.

[ScioPath]

  =  :antisamsara:  +

I hate you.

?

[MetalManiac666]

Interesting points there.  I love JM's playing, and would love to hear him higher up in the mix in future albums.  Agreed on TOT as well, the bass is absolutely blasting on that album.

[tri.ad]

I think the way the bass is mixed within the music is fine, it's just that it isn't distinguished from the guitars and keyboards these days (for the reasons, see above).

[Scard]

I agree. His good parts are goooooooooood, but there aren't nearly enough of them. While playing what is best for the song is always top priority, there is definitely still a lot of room in DT's music for JM to stand out sometimes..

[hefdaddy42]

I agree with Reap (and tri.ad) 100%.  It's bad enough that JM has been progressively less interested in the creative side of DT's output, but coupled with the progressively worse bass sound/mix, it's a tragedy.

No, not a fatal tragedy, geeks.

[King Postwhore]

I'd love to hear him change his sound.  The low end is always muddled of late.  The bass should always up front in the mix.

[OperantChamber]

Glad to hear I'm not alone in loving the booming bass in TOT.