Just got "Lifting Shadows". Extraordinary!

[Setlist Scotty]

 And as for MP's thoughts on a few select individuals, I'd rather he share his thoughts in a straightforward manner instead of sugar-coating it like happens so often.

There is something to be said for that, but his cheap shot at Kevin Moore in the book's Foreword is just that: a cheap shot.  That didn't need to be said.  Speaking straight forward is one thing, but whenever Kevin Moore comes up in any interview or something with him, he almost always takes the low road.

Perhaps, but maybe not. This is purely speculation on my part: KevMo is highly praised and likely is not deserving of all of it. My guess is that if everyone else knew KevMo the way the rest of the band did, many would not think as highly of him as they do. MP can be stubborn and has a short fuse, but he is honest, straight forward and to the point. And he is unbelievably thoughtful, supportive and loyal to the people who are his friends. For MP to speak out against KevMo in no uncertain terms goes far beyond KevMo's unwillingness to join DT onstage for a special show or even KevMo disowning his past with DT. I'd wager that whatever has happened between them is apparently equivalent to whatever happened between him and both David Prater and Geoff Tate(r).

[Global Laziness]

Man, I can't remember the last time I had a Tater Tot...those things were awesome.

[orcus116]

MP can be stubborn and has a short fuse, but he is honest, straight forward and to the point.

He also has no idea when to just let something go. Moore apparently does. Granted it's hard to get the whole story without Moore's side but if he doesn't want to talk about his past or even be apart of it well so be it. On the other hand Portnoy is holding probably the second stupidest grudge in modern music behind Mustaine's gripes with Metallica.

[KevShmev]

I gotta agree with orcus116.  Even if he is being honest, almost every time Portnoy talks about Moore, you can hear anger, bitterness, resentment, etc.  It just seems so silly.  The guy left the band 16 years ago!  And they apparently have the perfect DT lineup now (according to Portnoy), so it is probably time to get the hell over it.   Kevin Moore doesn't want to play with them or talk about them anymore.  Who cares?

As for Moore likely not deserving the high praise he gets, Scotty, what does that even mean?  It is like those who praise him think he is an awesome guy with a super terrific personality.  They praise him for his songwriting, his lyrics, and his ability to create great moods and textures. 

Portnoy is thoughtful, supportive and loyal to his friends.  I don't doubt that for a second.  But if you get on his bad side, look out.

[bosk1]

Kev, sometimes you manage to hit the nail so squarely on the head, it's unreal.  Other times, like now, I can't even begin to fathom where you're coming from.

[KevShmev]

Well, how boring would this (or any) forum be if we all agreed with each other all of the time?

[BRGM]

Yeah, agreed!                           

[j]

Kev, sometimes you manage to hit the nail so squarely on the head, it's unreal.  Other times, like now, I can't even begin to fathom where you're coming from.

I dunno, his last post was pretty spot on.  Surely you can at least BEGIN to fathom where he's coming from.

-J

[ZBomber]

Kev, sometimes you manage to hit the nail so squarely on the head, it's unreal.  Other times, like now, I can't even begin to fathom where you're coming from.

What part do you not understand on where he is coming from? He still sounds pretty spot-on to me.

EDIT - Guess I should have read J's post first. 

[j]

  I lol'ed.  Even your wording is similar to mine!

-J

[Rafael Guerra]

MP also says in the book that he knew Kevin was leaving the band, he wouldn't have included Space Dye Vest. I just wonder how else they would be closing the album? I mean, while Space Dye Vest has a completely different tone from the other songs of the album, it closes the album much better than Scarred (I love Scarred, but its a climax, not a closer).

[orcus116]

Probably would've just been Scarred then.

[TL]

Though I do think that Space Dye Vest is better as a closer, Scarred could have worked.

[BRGM]

I kinda dig SDV, it's so depressing!...

[ZBomber]

I kinda dig SDV, it's so depressing!...

What the fuck


Why did you even put that smiley at the end?

[Global Laziness]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand how they work.

[Gadough]

Just roll with it, Z. Just roll with it.

[Dr. DTVT]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand how they work.

He's took over the job of captaining the failboat when Mizzl left.

As for the topic at hand...it would be nice if MP would play nice with KM, but it goes beyond Kev's departure from DT.  It wasn't until after the second OSI album MP REALLY started getting harsh about Kev.  IIRC, the main critisms MP had of Kev were that he's controlling and in a dour mood when working on the albums.  Someone feel free to find the exact quotes, but I seem to remember that being the real breaking point.

[BRGM]

But it sounded so Emoish without the smiley

[hefdaddy42]

But it sounded so Emoish without the smiley

Not really.  It just looked really dumb WITH the smiley.

[BRGM]

doesn't it sounds Emoish that I dig something depressing?!

[Dr. DTVT]

Quit derailing the thread BRGM.

[Rich Wilson]

As for the topic at hand...it would be nice if MP would play nice with KM, but it goes beyond Kev's departure from DT.  It wasn't until after the second OSI album MP REALLY started getting harsh about Kev.  IIRC, the main critisms MP had of Kev were that he's controlling and in a dour mood when working on the albums.  Someone feel free to find the exact quotes, but I seem to remember that being the real breaking point.

Here you go 

"I honestly went in there with an open mind and I was truly excited to work with Kevin again," sighs Portnoy. "I was hoping that it was going to be a great experience. But it ended up being more of the same old shit that it was when he left Dream Theater. Basically when I'm making music with other people, I want it to be fun and I want it to put a smile on my face. At the end of the day, making those records with Kevin wasn't fun. He's not a fun person to work with. He's a very depressing and stubborn personality and there's no reason in my life or my career that I need to subject myself to that sort of personality. I'd rather work with people who are enjoying the process. And if anything, making those two albums showed me in no uncertain terms that if Kevin hadn't left Dream Theater, then Dream Theater would have broken up many, many years ago. So him leaving the band was probably the greatest ever thing that ever happened to Dream Theater. There's no way Dream Theater could exist with that type of personality."

[Plasmastrike]

Pretty brutal.

KM is just like lol whatever.. I would be too. No reason to ever respond to that.

[BRGM]

Does Mike really have to say that loud?! that's pretty rude

[Ben_Jamin]

Kinda funny about MP wanting to have fun. I bet kevin was really serious about this project but MP kept playing over the top so kev had to make his parts more laid back drums. But it was jim who wanted MP.

[Dr. DTVT]

Thanks for the hook-up Rich.  I knew I read that somewhere, and you know your book better than I do 

Does Mike really have to say that loud?! that's pretty rude

Yes he did.  MP was being interviewed.  As the audience, I want the truth, not some puff piece.

[BRGM]

but...he could've just said like..."Me and Kevin Moore didn't go along very good so" instead he goes like, "He's just a fucked up bitch!"

[KevShmev]

My educated guess is that a guy like Portnoy, who is a control freak by his own admission, didn't like having little or no control on those records, and when you factor in his aggravation over Kevin Moore's refusal to play with or even talk about Dream Theater anymore, his bitterness is easy to figure out.  I can sort of understand it, but the way he lashes out at him times just doesn't come across well. 

And what is funny is, as much as some like to applaud Portnoy for being honest or telling his version of the truth, if Moore actually spoke up and did the same thing, and had some unkind things to say about Portnoy, similar to the unkind things Portnoy has said about Moore over the years, some of those same fans suddenly wouldn't be so excited about honesty and the truth.   You can bet the house on that.

[darkshade]

it's true there's only one side of the story. regardless, what about Transatlantic? He isn't writing the music, particularly, but based on interviews ive seen, he helps drive the music, both in developing the direction in the music (just like in DT) and also in his playing. Based on the TA albums, yes he does do his virtuosic playing ala DT, but he does hold back a lot too, so i dont think it's about him wanting to overplay on every track with Kevin Moore, but that Moore more than likely WASNT that fun to work with. Portnoy has been in a lot of side projects, and he isnt in charge of all of them, but he almost never complains about them. OSI, from what ive seen, is the only one.

[Rich Wilson]

It is true that's the only side of the story we'll ever know.

As you know, I tried guys to get both but it isn't going to happen.

[ehra]

And what is funny is, as much as some like to applaud Portnoy for being honest or telling his version of the truth, if Moore actually spoke up and did the same thing, and had some unkind things to say about Portnoy, similar to the unkind things Portnoy has said about Moore over the years, some of those same fans suddenly wouldn't be so excited about honesty and the truth.   You can bet the house on that.

At the same time chances are good that if Moore were to ever come out and slam Portnoy the way Portnoy sometimes does to Moore (and it's not like Portnoy just randomly comes out and says these things, it's only when people ask him), not all of the people who act so offended at what MP says about KM would have any problem with KM doing the same during an interview. Not sure what point you're trying to make there, you can find crazed fanboys for most musicians (KM just happens to have a whole lot less than MP).

[Dr. DTVT]

I would think (hope) that if KM ever did decide to tell his side of the story and he comes out swingin', I think most people who follow DT enough would give him carte blanche to say what he wants.  At least I would.

[orcus116]

My educated guess is that a guy like Portnoy, who is a control freak by his own admission, didn't like having little or no control on those records

That's exactly what I thought when I saw the word "stubborn". I find it hilarious that he says "Dream Theater can't exist with that kind of personality" because that is almost exactly the type of person he comes across as, especially when it comes to working in the studio.

[ehra]

I guess one out of three counts as "almost exactly" the same these days.