MP Interview on Backstage Axxess makes me nervous!

[ZBomber]

Please keep threads like this in the Octavarium subforum.  Thanks.

I thought the Octavairum subforum was deleted?

Or was that just a johk?

[setrataeso]

What an unbelievably fail-filled thread...

[hefdaddy42]

There is no story here.

[Birch Boy]

There is no story here.

I believe you are in search of this: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=14633.0

[hefdaddy42]

There is no story here.

I believe you are in search of this: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=14633.0

Nope.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, and those songs under Portnoy have awful lyrics.

He is definitely the 'leader' of the band in that sense.

Okay, with utmost respect, I am actually at a loss for words at how ridiculously little sense that made.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty obvious Mike's not leading the charge. It's more like Mike's lyrics are about as good as they've ever been, and John's taken a nosedive off of a cliff. John's lyrics, however, are still pretty good compared to a lot of what's out there.

[ariich]

All of DT's lyricists are pretty inconcistent, they can write some great stuff and pretty average stuff.

[Perpetual Change]

They can. Aside from Octavarium, though, they haven't written anything that's blown me away from a lyrical standpoint since Six Degrees.

[SystematicThought]

They can. Aside from Octavarium, though, they haven't written anything that's blown me away from a lyrical standpoint since Six Degrees.

Pretty much how I feel as well. I, however foud the lyrics on Train of Thought to be pretty good

[Perpetual Change]

I think they're pretty good in the sense that they're not distracting at all.

[TAC]

Just checked the interview. Wow, did that interviewer suck! Nothing to worry about here folks. Like MP said, " I'm not going to quit Dream theater to join Avenged Sevenfold." I mean, it was quite emphatic, no?


BTW, to the OP, what did James say?

[robwebster]

Yeah, and those songs under Portnoy have awful lyrics.

He is definitely the 'leader' of the band in that sense.

Okay, with utmost respect, I am actually at a loss for words at how ridiculously little sense that made.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty obvious Mike's not leading the charge. It's more like Mike's lyrics are about as good as they've ever been, and John's taken a nosedive off of a cliff. John's lyrics, however, are still pretty good compared to a lot of what's out there.

Aye! Fair comment. JP at his worst is serviceable-but-straightforward. Silly frothy monster stories and an all-too-literal account of the Freemasons with a bit of nice imagery. Vanilla and inoffensive, but not bad. Just not stellar.

[GuineaPig]

Yeah, and those songs under Portnoy have awful lyrics.

He is definitely the 'leader' of the band in that sense.

Okay, with utmost respect, I am actually at a loss for words at how ridiculously little sense that made.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty obvious Mike's not leading the charge. It's more like Mike's lyrics are about as good as they've ever been, and John's taken a nosedive off of a cliff. John's lyrics, however, are still pretty good compared to a lot of what's out there.

Aye! Fair comment. JP at his worst is serviceable-but-straightforward. Silly frothy monster stories and an all-too-literal account of the Freemasons with a bit of nice imagery. Vanilla and inoffensive, but not bad. Just not stellar.

I'd say they're pretty bad.  If I have difficulty listening to songs due to the sheer retardedness of their lyrics, I would classify them as bad.

[InTheNameOfGod]

Yeah, and those songs under Portnoy have awful lyrics.

He is definitely the 'leader' of the band in that sense.

Okay, with utmost respect, I am actually at a loss for words at how ridiculously little sense that made.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty obvious Mike's not leading the charge. It's more like Mike's lyrics are about as good as they've ever been, and John's taken a nosedive off of a cliff. John's lyrics, however, are still pretty good compared to a lot of what's out there.

Aye! Fair comment. JP at his worst is serviceable-but-straightforward. Silly frothy monster stories and an all-too-literal account of the Freemasons with a bit of nice imagery. Vanilla and inoffensive, but not bad. Just not stellar.

I'd say they're pretty bad.  If I have difficulty listening to songs due to the sheer retardedness of their lyrics, I would classify them as bad.

This.

I can only listen to the opening and closing segments of The Best of Times.

The lyrics are just unbelievably bad. Shocking really. (although I respect what the song is about)

[bodiesinflight]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

[InTheNameOfGod]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

[bodiesinflight]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

Without wishing to have a go at prog via a stereotype, what prog bands do you listen to that have good lyrics?

[InTheNameOfGod]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

Without wishing to have a go at prog via a stereotype, what prog bands do you listen to that have good lyrics?

Well almost all bands i've listened to have their share of one or two poorly constructed songs with weak lyrics. But off the top of my head: Pain Of Salvation, Opeth, Alcest, Nile (not really prog but progressive elements in their music) Green Carnation, Porcupine Tree are a few examples. I listen to black metal, and other genres, also.

[Seventh Son]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

Without wishing to have a go at prog via a stereotype, what prog bands do you listen to that have good lyrics?

Well almost all bands i've listened to have their share of one or two poorly constructed songs with weak lyrics. But off the top of my head: Pain Of Salvation, Opeth, Alcest, Nile (not really prog but progressive elements in their music) Green Carnation, Porcupine Tree are a few examples. I listen to black metal, and other genres, also.

Take this with a grain of salt, because my opinions on lyrics are a bit... unorthodox. But I don't consider any of those bands to be great lyrically either. They're pretty much on the same page as DT imo

But as someone said before,if you listen to DT for lyrics, UR DOING IT WRONG

[hefdaddy42]

I think they're pretty good in the sense that they're not distracting at all.

There's certainly no distraction from excellence (unlike the older albums).

I think the best lyrics on BC&SL are on Wither.  Not sure what that says.  But I like Wither, so it's fine with me.

[KevShmev]

But as someone said before,if you listen to DT for lyrics, UR DOING IT WRONG

I doubt anyone listens to DT just for the lyrics, or even considers them the first priority, but they are still an important part of the overall package, nonetheless.

[InTheNameOfGod]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

Without wishing to have a go at prog via a stereotype, what prog bands do you listen to that have good lyrics?

Well almost all bands i've listened to have their share of one or two poorly constructed songs with weak lyrics. But off the top of my head: Pain Of Salvation, Opeth, Alcest, Nile (not really prog but progressive elements in their music) Green Carnation, Porcupine Tree are a few examples. I listen to black metal, and other genres, also.

Take this with a grain of salt, because my opinions on lyrics are a bit... unorthodox. But I don't consider any of those bands to be great lyrically either. They're pretty much on the same page as DT imo

But as someone said before,if you listen to DT for lyrics, UR DOING IT WRONG

I will take it with a grain of salt, as I know that the bands i've listed are better lyrically than Dream Theater.

Just using my first example, Pain Of Salvation, and bearing in mind I have listened to the entire DT Discography a thousand times; can you give me a set of DT lyrics from any song more carefully constructed/more thoughtful/more powerful than PoS's Beyond The Pale?:

https://www.burbler.com/pain-of-salvation-beyond-the-pale-lyrics.html


The answer is, no you can't.  

This is not to say DT are not a great band. I wouldn't be where I am today musically without my love for DT. I've just moved on to different things.

[InTheNameOfGod]

But as someone said before,if you listen to DT for lyrics, UR DOING IT WRONG

I doubt anyone listens to DT just for the lyrics, or even considers them the first priority, but they are still an important part of the overall package, nonetheless.

Amen. 

[Seventh Son]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

Without wishing to have a go at prog via a stereotype, what prog bands do you listen to that have good lyrics?

Well almost all bands i've listened to have their share of one or two poorly constructed songs with weak lyrics. But off the top of my head: Pain Of Salvation, Opeth, Alcest, Nile (not really prog but progressive elements in their music) Green Carnation, Porcupine Tree are a few examples. I listen to black metal, and other genres, also.

Take this with a grain of salt, because my opinions on lyrics are a bit... unorthodox. But I don't consider any of those bands to be great lyrically either. They're pretty much on the same page as DT imo

But as someone said before,if you listen to DT for lyrics, UR DOING IT WRONG

I will take it with a grain of salt, as I know that the bands i've listed are better lyrically than Dream Theater.

Just using my first example, Pain Of Salvation, and bearing in mind I have listened to the entire DT Discography a thousand times; can you give me a set of DT lyrics from any song more carefully constructed/more thoughtful/more powerful than PoS's Beyond The Pale?:

https://www.burbler.com/pain-of-salvation-beyond-the-pale-lyrics.html


The answer is, no you can't.  

This is not to say DT are not a great band. I wouldn't be where I am today musically without my love for DT. I've just moved on to different things.

Its hard to judge the lyrics without having heard the song in question. Lyrics are a part of a song, so I don't really judge them like one would judge poetry. If it doesn't fit the music, chances are I think the lyrics are bad.

But looking at it from the link you posted, they come off as incredibly average to me.

[InTheNameOfGod]

Although you're right; I can count the number of good A7X songs on one hand.

I can do it on 0  


Also, re. lyrical debate above: if you're listening to DT for they're lyrics then you're listening to the wrong band!

Indeed, but lyrics are still important either way. Especially when the music is so big and convincing.

I don't actually listen to DT much anymore, anyway. They got me into progressive music and I will always have a soft spot for the them, but i've moved on to better bands. I prefer to have the total package when it comes to progressive music. And DT don't have that, or have not had it for a long time, IMO.

Without wishing to have a go at prog via a stereotype, what prog bands do you listen to that have good lyrics?

Well almost all bands i've listened to have their share of one or two poorly constructed songs with weak lyrics. But off the top of my head: Pain Of Salvation, Opeth, Alcest, Nile (not really prog but progressive elements in their music) Green Carnation, Porcupine Tree are a few examples. I listen to black metal, and other genres, also.

Take this with a grain of salt, because my opinions on lyrics are a bit... unorthodox. But I don't consider any of those bands to be great lyrically either. They're pretty much on the same page as DT imo

But as someone said before,if you listen to DT for lyrics, UR DOING IT WRONG

I will take it with a grain of salt, as I know that the bands i've listed are better lyrically than Dream Theater.

Just using my first example, Pain Of Salvation, and bearing in mind I have listened to the entire DT Discography a thousand times; can you give me a set of DT lyrics from any song more carefully constructed/more thoughtful/more powerful than PoS's Beyond The Pale?:

https://www.burbler.com/pain-of-salvation-beyond-the-pale-lyrics.html


The answer is, no you can't.  

This is not to say DT are not a great band. I wouldn't be where I am today musically without my love for DT. I've just moved on to different things.

Its hard to judge the lyrics without having heard the song in question. Lyrics are a part of a song, so I don't really judge them like one would judge poetry. If it doesn't fit the music, chances are I think the lyrics are bad.

But looking at it from the link you posted, they come off as incredibly average to me.

It's exactly as you put it, and how it fits into the song, and concept (it's a concept album)

Check it out, it's a brilliant song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCE0h5Da5R4

Indeed, it does help to have listened to the songs before it, also.

[TL]

This.

I can only listen to the opening and closing segments of The Best of Times.

The lyrics are just unbelievably bad. Shocking really. (although I respect what the song is about)

I've honestly never understood the heavy critiques of the lyrics to The Best of Times. There are bad lyrics on BC&SL, but TBOT definitely doesn't spring to mind first. You have to take context into account when judging something like lyrics. They're written from Mike to his father as his father was dying. In that context, how are those lyrics bad? Are they the best lyrics the band has ever written? No, of course they aren't. But they're not as bad as you're saying they are. Unless you're some soulless robot who doesn't understand human emotion, the lyrics to TBOT aren't "shockingly bad".

[Seventh Son]

This.

I can only listen to the opening and closing segments of The Best of Times.

The lyrics are just unbelievably bad. Shocking really. (although I respect what the song is about)

I've honestly never understood the heavy critiques of the lyrics to The Best of Times. There are bad lyrics on BC&SL, but TBOT definitely doesn't spring to mind first. You have to take context into account when judging something like lyrics. They're written from Mike to his father as his father was dying. In that context, how are those lyrics bad? Are they the best lyrics the band has ever written? No, of course they aren't. But they're not as bad as you're saying they are. Unless you're some soulless robot who doesn't understand human emotion, the lyrics to TBOT aren't "shockingly bad".

I wouldn't call them bad. Just average at best. But I think that's because LaBrie doesn't really bring out the same kind of emotion that Mike intended in the song as well (Not to say James' vocals on it are bad either, I just don't think they really evoke the kind of emotion the song is calling for). Lyrics and music are intertwined, in my opinion. If the music doesn't match them, its hard to be impressed by any degree of lyricism. Even if Wordsworth wrote some lyrics to a song, I wouldn't care for them unless the music matched what the lyrics were going for.

[Slain]

Dream Theater will always be one of my favorite bands, because I like prog elements in music, and I like metal elements in music, and usually they can pull both off pretty well. I love TBOT and I never have understood the hate for it. The "hopelessly drifting" section in ANTR has good lyrics, and they have certain songs like TCOT where the lyrics are VERY straightforward, but I don't think it's to a fault

This is entirely my opinion, and not everyone will agree with it, but...There are some newer prog bands with lyrics that are so cryptic and trying to be genius and poetic (I'm not saying this in a "i r no understand dem" way, because that's not the case) that the words sound really off with the music and melodies, usually the song really suffers from it.

[KevShmev]

This.

I can only listen to the opening and closing segments of The Best of Times.

The lyrics are just unbelievably bad. Shocking really. (although I respect what the song is about)

I've honestly never understood the heavy critiques of the lyrics to The Best of Times. There are bad lyrics on BC&SL, but TBOT definitely doesn't spring to mind first. You have to take context into account when judging something like lyrics. They're written from Mike to his father as his father was dying. In that context, how are those lyrics bad? Are they the best lyrics the band has ever written? No, of course they aren't. But they're not as bad as you're saying they are. Unless you're some soulless robot who doesn't understand human emotion, the lyrics to TBOT aren't "shockingly bad".

Agreed.  There are a few lines I think could have been worded better, but overall, I would say the lyrics to that song are neither good nor bad.  They definitely have a lot better, but they also have a lot worse.

[InTheNameOfGod]

I would consider TCOT a great song if only the lyrics didn't look like they came from a 10 year old boy.

Maybe it was intentional (I am aware of the story behind it), but I can't take the song seriously with lyrics like that. It's laughable.

DT's past 2 albums have had very poor lyrics, IMO. There are one or two exceptions of course, but they have the ability to do much better.

DT are a pompous band and they seem to strive for musical perfection. I see no reason why they can't take more time with the lyrics, as they'd be an almost different band entirely. And change is good. If (and it's a big if) they can get much worse for the next album, I think i'll be calling it a day with DT. I want to see something a bit different.

[LKap13]

When it comes to dT, the lyrics either add to the song or are neutral. The only exception I can think of are the lyrics to Count of Tuscany, which are pretty terrible and make the song difficult to listen to.

I would have to disagree with the assertion that dT is the wrong band for lyrics lovers. The way I see it, when they get them right, they rank as some of the best lyrics out there. I can't think of any lyrics better than those of dT's finest.
Think: Voices, Scarred, SDV, 6:00, Mirror, Lie, Learning to Live, Take the Time

[Slain]

I would consider TCOT a great song if only the lyrics didn't look like they came from a 10 year old boy.

Maybe it was intentional (I am aware of the story behind it), but I can't take the song seriously with lyrics like that. It's laughable.

DT's past 2 albums have had very poor lyrics, IMO. There are one or two exceptions of course, but they have the ability to do much better.

DT are a pompous band and they seem to strive for musical perfection. I see no reason why they can't take more time with the lyrics, as they'd be an almost different band entirely. And change is good. If (and it's a big if) they can get much worse for the next album, I think i'll be calling it a day with DT. I want to see something a bit different.

I think they're anything but pompous. When Dream Theater writes a song, they aren't saying "Man, this is going to be the greatest song of all time. Aren't we great? Listen to this fantastic masterpiece." They just go into the studio and write music, and write what they want to write. And I would say that their last two albums are far from "very poor" lyrics wise. They would probably fall closer into the "Average" category, but it depends on what you're comparing the lyrics to.

[LKap13]

I see no reason why they can't take more time with the lyrics, as they'd be an almost different band entirely.

Well I think the lyrics to Wither say it all...they're experiencing writer's block. There's probably a lack of inspiration which is reflected in their latest lyrics (and a lot of their latest music   )
I've always thought that an extended time off before the band's next album would serve them well. It'll give them time to collect ideas and not feel like machines pumping out music on a schedule. I have very high hopes the next album will come out sounding more inspired than the last three (that is, if there ever is a new album)

[KevShmev]

  I see no reason why they can't take more time with the lyrics, as they'd be an almost different band entirely.

The thing is, I don't think they realize that their lyrics have, overall, taken a massive nosedive.  Remember Portnoy saying to Petrucci on the SC making of video, "Man, these lyrics are metal," in reference to ITPOE.  Yeah, they were metal alright.  And 90% of metal lyrics are cheesy and/or terrible. 

Like I have said before, the combination of Myung not doing lyrics anymore and the relative sharp decline in Petrucci's is the biggest reason for the lyrical decline.  Neither La Brie nor Portnoy have ever been particular good at writing lyrics, but with none of the others standing out anymore (like Petrucci, Myung and Moore all used to way back when), when looking at them all as a whole, it is rather easy to see how much the overall quality has dropped.

[Durg]

I see no reason why they can't take more time with the lyrics, as they'd be an almost different band entirely.

Well I think the lyrics to Wither say it all...they're experiencing writer's block. There's probably a lack of inspiration which is reflected in their latest lyrics (and a lot of their latest music   )
I've always thought that an extended time off before the band's next album would serve them well. It'll give them time to collect ideas and not feel like machines pumping out music on a schedule. I have very high hopes the next album will come out sounding more inspired than the last three (that is, if there ever is a new album)

Yeah, but I've read and heard numerous interviews where MP says that the writing process doesn't happen until they enter the studio.  I don't know why this is so important to them but it seems to me that this could be a hindrance.  I like the more strait forward lyrics too.  The deep lyrics from Images & Words and Awake have happened less and less.  I don't know if that was more of a Kevin Moore influence or not.

I also know that John Myung's songs are usually pretty deep and difficult to follow sometimes.  He hasn't contributed to the lyrics in a while.  I think I read somewhere that his lyrics tend to be difficult to lay music to.  I donno