ITPOE pt. 2

bosk1 · July 06, 2010, 02:21:54 PM

ITPOE (both parts together) is in my iTunes "epics" play list, which I have playing today. For no particular reason, I've listened to this song quite a bit over the last few days. As far as the two parts, I prefer part 1 by a signficiant margin. But it just struck me how much I like how part 2 ends. In terms of song endings, this really is one of the better ones out there. Just wanted to appreciate.

Darkes7 · July 06, 2010, 02:24:24 PM

Part 2 as a whole is better and has always been.

tri.ad · July 06, 2010, 02:27:53 PM

ITPOE Pt.2 is decent, but Pt.1 is better imo. Pt.2 contains some highs as well, like the moog reprise of the main theme and the first 4 or 5 minutes. Most of the rest kinda drags it down, though.

Gadough · July 06, 2010, 02:39:49 PM

Quote from: Darkes7 on July 06, 2010, 02:24:24 PM
Part 2 as a whole is better and has always been.

I would agree with this if it weren't for the guitar solo in Part 1, my favorite solo ever.

Adami · July 06, 2010, 02:52:28 PM

I like the intro to Pt. 2, but that's about it. I used to like the heavy chanty part, but then it just seemed stale, however the riff petrucci plays inbetween each chanty section is awesome. The musical section is boring as hell and the ending just seems tacked on. And don't even get me started on the chorus.

OperantChamber · July 06, 2010, 02:54:40 PM

One nitpicky problem I've always had with Pt. 2 is the lyrics at the beginning. 'For your arrival' sounds really sloppy and out of place to me.
Other than that I really like the whole song.

nightmare_cinema · July 06, 2010, 02:59:30 PM

The entire ITPOE is one of my absolute favourite DT songs, it is stunning from start to finish. Especially 6:07 - 9:17... the whole song is incredible but that section makes my blood chill and my eyes water. It's just a stunning, stunning piece of music.

TAC · July 06, 2010, 03:01:13 PM

ITPOE Pt2 is way underrated. The Heretic part is one of my fave movements in their catalog.

Adami · July 06, 2010, 03:03:12 PM

Oh yea I forgot, the whole "Angels fall..." part is very cool, as is the "I judge and I am just".

Plasmastrike · July 06, 2010, 03:04:37 PM

I listened to both back to back because of Pirate's description of it in his list. ITPOE is always a track I enjoy a lot. Part 2 covers a lot of ground musically.

Darkes7 · July 06, 2010, 03:05:39 PM

Part 1 is the closest to "typical progmetal" DT has got in the recent years, and that seems to be criticised a lot around here. Part 2 has some excellent unusual ideas, some of the most impressive James' vocal work ever, incredibly atmospheric first part, very decent instrumental and amazing ending.

Dublagent66 · July 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM

I like Pt.1 much more. But, I've grown to like Pt.2 much more than I did at first. I should add that song to my "epics" playlist.

j · July 06, 2010, 03:12:35 PM

It's not bad, but the "dark master" parts are lame, the instrumental section is uninteresting and the ending doesn't come close to doing the rest of the song justice. That said, there are some great highlights, many of which others have pointed out, but as an entire song, all of DT's other epics are more consistent.

-J

Cool Chris · July 06, 2010, 04:07:46 PM

Quote from: Darkes7 on July 06, 2010, 03:05:39 PM
Part 2 has some excellent unusual ideas, some of the most impressive James' vocal work ever, incredibly atmospheric first part...

Sorry I truncated your post, but this was the section I echo 100%. I love Jordan's intro and the whole structure of that heretic section. Even the 'Dark Master' chorus works for me, because James makes it work. Thinking about this song in the hands of a lesser vocalist makes me shudder. How he was able to pull it off is incredible. It does drag a bit for me (the Reckoning?) but not as bad as it does for others. The instrumentation may be wanky, but it works for me within the context of the song as a whole.

BRGM · July 06, 2010, 04:49:31 PM

I know! the Ending is freaking great!! Definetely one of their best endings ever on any song...but I lik ITPOE pt 2 as a whole aswell, Love "The Reckoning"

orcus116 · July 06, 2010, 04:51:23 PM

Haven't listened to it in awhile but the only thing I can really say about it is that I remember it being very bloated.

dedSurroun · July 06, 2010, 04:54:54 PM

I actually don't like the first 4 minutes (basically, the instrumental intro) of Part 1. It's too long and too repetitive, which makes it boring. The rest of the song is decent but I prefer Part 2 (not a fan of splitting it up but hey) slightly more.

The Letter M · July 06, 2010, 05:15:10 PM

I enjoy it a lot, enough that I made my own 25:13 long single track that crossfades the two tracks very nicely (using the 8-beat pause between the end of Part 1 and the opening bass of Part 2 as seen in the SC Documentary when JP tracks the guitar part, the rest of the song continues and 8 beats later, JM's bass comes in, quite nicely too).

I think the song has a great flow to it, and the 2nd part, IMO, gets a bit discredited because the 1st part is just so good. Had the band not separated the track like they did, I'm sure there wouldn't be this whole "First part is better" mentality. Imagine if they had done something similar to "A Change Of Seasons" or "Octavarium"?

Either way, I don't mind the whole "Dark Master" lyrics all that much - it's freaking METAL

and while I don't listen to much heavy metal, I'd like to think lyrics about monsters and masters fit well with the sound, and the chanting section always gets me pumping! I just gotta yell "HEY!" every time while rocking my head in time

The ending is pretty solid too, and very fitting for the song, AND the album, so I can see why they wanted to end the album with it!

-Marc.

Darkes7 · July 06, 2010, 05:22:17 PM

In fact I need to try to listen to the album with the whole ITPOE as the opener and ending with The Ministry of Lost Souls (which gives a bit of a Learning to Live type of ending). Might be interesting.

axeman90210 · July 06, 2010, 06:37:24 PM

some of the instrumental stuff in the middle is a little weak, but there are also some very good moments. I get goosebumps the first time JLB sings "Angels fall..." with just piano in the background/

ZKX-2099 · July 06, 2010, 07:26:39 PM

Both parts are solid. Part 1 being the best on the CD. But it just doesn't stand up too well against other powerhouses like Octavarium and A Change Of Seasons.

Now I think they should have kept both parts together. But I also think it was cool they decided to mix things up a bit.

Constant Motion
Forsaken
The Dark Eternal Night
Repentance
Prophets Of War
The Ministry Of Lost Souls
In The Presence Of Enemies

I think the fade out from "Ministry" going into the powerhouse of "Enemies" would have been an awesome transition.

Nic35 · July 06, 2010, 07:52:25 PM

Part 1 is completely awesome. It is the best song they have written since Octavarium. Part 2 is awesome as well and I love the ending.

Awesome song.

ZKX-2099 · July 07, 2010, 05:50:32 AM

QuoteIt is the best song they have written since Octavarium.

So... it's the best song since the one directly chronologically before it...

perfectchaos180 · July 07, 2010, 06:26:08 AM

The reprise is amazing

Jamesman42 · July 07, 2010, 09:15:50 AM

Quote from: Darkes7 on July 06, 2010, 05:22:17 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls (which gives a bit of a Learning to Live type of ending).

No.

hefdaddy42 · July 07, 2010, 09:43:11 AM

bosky, I agree about the ending.

As for the rest of Pt. 2, it sounds like they had a few cool ideas and a few other ideas, shook them all up, and dumped them out. There are certainly some awesome moments in it, but there are others that make me shudder.

Meanwhile, Pt. 1 is all killer, no filler. Awesome.

j · July 07, 2010, 11:00:48 AM

Quote from: Jamesman on July 07, 2010, 09:15:50 AM
Quote from: Darkes7 on July 06, 2010, 05:22:17 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls (which gives a bit of a Learning to Live type of ending).

No.

This. They both fade out, but are NOTHING alike otherwise.

-J

Seventh Son · July 07, 2010, 11:10:19 AM

The Ministry of Lost Souls > In the Presence of Enemies

Dublagent66 · July 07, 2010, 01:01:34 PM

I actually did have ITPOE in my epics playlist. I like most of Pt.2 except for the JP and JR solo sections. They really seem all over the place. The ending is the best part.

Quote from: bösk1 on July 06, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
ITPOE (both parts together) is in my iTunes "epics" play list, which I have playing today. For no particular reason, I've listened to this song quite a bit over the last few days. As far as the two parts, I prefer part 1 by a signficiant margin. But it just struck me how much I like how part 2 ends. In terms of song endings, this really is one of the better ones out there. Just wanted to appreciate.

This may be somewhat off topic but I'm curious what DT songs are in your "epics" playlist. Mine are listed below. I think I'm missing a couple like ITNOG and Metropolis Pt.1.

ACOS
ANTR
TCOT
TMOLS
8VM
ITPOE
SDOIT
TOT
LTL

bosk1 · July 07, 2010, 01:20:17 PM

Quote from: Dublagent66 on July 07, 2010, 01:01:34 PMThis may be somewhat off topic but I'm curious what DT songs are in your "epics" playlist. Mine are listed below. I think I'm missing a couple like ITNOG and Metropolis Pt.1.

I know the line between what is and is not an "epic" gets a bit blurry, but I went with only the longer, traditionally-considered epics and did not include songs like ANTR. I also included a 12SS mix, even though that is a suite and not an epic. My play list is, in this order:

The Count of Tuscany
Duel with the Devil (Transatlantic)
Suite Charlotte Pike (Transatlantic)
Stranger in Your Soul (Transatlantic)
A Change of Seasons
Octavarium
The Odyssey (Symphony X)
6 Degrees
All The Above (Transatlantic)
My New World (Transatlantic)
In the Presence of Enemies
The Whirlwind (Transatlantic)
The 12 step suite

Raiden · July 07, 2010, 06:07:05 PM

i like part 2, it is my favorite dream theater epic right next to octavarium, i like jordan's and petrucci's harmony solos in both parts and are some of my favorites. great song(s)

setrataeso · July 07, 2010, 09:03:48 PM

I've always liked Pt 2 more than other people seem to.
I enjoyed the jumpy feel to the instrumental section, and the chanting part is a blast to get into. Plus, when the main theme comes back in...pure awesomeness.

orcus116 · July 07, 2010, 11:45:13 PM

Quote from: bösk1 on July 07, 2010, 01:20:17 PM
I know the line between what is and is not an "epic" gets a bit blurry, but I went with only the longer, traditionally-considered epics and did not include songs like ANTR

To each his own but if you're gonna shun a song like ANTR for not being an epic (very correctly), why start off your playlist with an equally similar song in The Count of Tuscany?

Mladen · July 08, 2010, 02:49:29 AM

Quote from: Seventh Son on July 07, 2010, 11:10:19 AM
The Ministry of Lost Souls > In the Presence of Enemies

True.

hefdaddy42 · July 08, 2010, 03:54:25 AM

Quote from: orcus116 on July 07, 2010, 11:45:13 PM
Quote from: bösk1 on July 07, 2010, 01:20:17 PM
I know the line between what is and is not an "epic" gets a bit blurry, but I went with only the longer, traditionally-considered epics and did not include songs like ANTR

To each his own but if you're gonna shun a song like ANTR for not being an epic (very correctly), why start off your playlist with an equally similar song in The Count of Tuscany?

I don't think they're similar at all.

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ITPOE pt. 2