Would You Be Interested...

[contest_sanity]

Because you seem to counter any criticism made in this thread. That says something.

Well, in fairness, any suggestions that DT should just keep on with what they're doing in the studio because it's just fine are also being met with resistance.

[Adami]

Because the entire purpose of this thread is to promote change, or the idea of change. It would make sense that posts saying "they're perfect the way they are, no change at all is good" are met with resistence.

If someone made a thread saying "DT has a great formula that seems to be working" and enough people agreed, then posts promoting change would be met with similar resistence.

[contest_sanity]

Because the entire purpose of this thread is to promote change, or the idea of change. It would make sense that posts saying "they're perfect the way they are, no change at all is good" are met with resistence.

If someone made a thread saying "DT has a great formula that seems to be working" and enough people agreed, then posts promoting change would be met with similar resistence.

Well, the question was "would you be interested in change?"  And then we were asked for our thoughts, so it seems like it would be fine to state the line of thinking that one is satisfied with what they're doing now and don't need to make any changes.

[Adami]

Yes, stating that opinion is lovely. Saying it whenever someone suggests a different change is a bit much.

[Gadough]

....if for the next Dream Theater album they go a completely opposite direction and do disc like Opeth's Damnation? Having a completely acoustic disc, and if we were lucky, maybe a two disc set, one being "normal" while the other being all acoustics would be pretty sweet.

Opeth are well known for their calm passages though. Dream Theater on the other hand are more well known for being one of the more "metal" of the progressive metal bands...meaning, when you think of Dream Theater, do calm peaceful sections spring to your mind at all? Of course they do exist ("hopelessly drifting..." part in Nightmare to Remember, etc) and they do have several ballads. But still. As much as I love Dream Theater, I just don't think they could effectively pull it off. It's not their style and it's not what they're known for. At any rate, it would probably divide the fanbase.

[ReaperKK]

I would love to hear an acoustic album but MP will have none of it, he wants to have as much BALLLSSSSS in DT albums as possible.

[contest_sanity]

Yes, stating that opinion is lovely. Saying it whenever someone suggests a different change is a bit much.

Yeah, I can understand that.

[Nic35]

There is serious criticism in this thread.

[Adami]

There is serious criticism in this thread.

I wouldn't call it criticism.









That was a joke incase you missed it.

[Arcaeus]

YES. I'm growing tired of the DT formula. Anything to switch it up would be well-appreciated.

[Global Laziness]

Wtf?

In The Name of God is IMO the best DT song lyric-wise. Most of his other lyrics don't go far behind. The Dark Eternal Night or The Count can't be compared since they're something entirely different.

You're wrong. ITNOG is mediocre at best. It's just like a kids school report on the subject. As was AROP and any other "I read about this the other day" songs.

I feel that you've definitely hit the nail on the head here, Adami. I'm usually more accepting of Dream Theater's lyrics than a lot of people on these forums, but I agree that songs like A Rite of Passage and The Great Debate (off the top of my head) really give off the summarizing-a-Wikipedia-article kind of vibe.

[orcus116]

100% correct and the reason why someone doesn't need to give the

the lyrics really feel like they're written by someone who knows what he's writing about.

answer any real credibility.

The shame of it all is that if Petrucci really was impassioned about any of these subjects I'm sure it would've shone but it looks like he never really gave more than a first drafts glance before handing it off to LaBrie.

[Darkes7]

Because you seem to counter any criticism made in this thread. That says something.

Because 90% of it is ridiculous for me and 10% is ridiculously exaggerated.

100% correct and the reason why someone doesn't need to give the

the lyrics really feel like they're written by someone who knows what he's writing about.

answer any real credibility.

The shame of it all is that if Petrucci really was impassioned about any of these subjects I'm sure it would've shone but it looks like he never really gave more than a first drafts glance before handing it off to LaBrie.

Do I even need to answer this or should I count it as a self-failing response?

[orcus116]

You need to come up with a new schtick.

[KevShmev]

I am still gasping for air over the assertion that all of Portnoy's lyrics are at least very good and that the AA ones are "absolutely amazing."   

[orcus116]

I'm starting to wonder what most people's benchmark for good lyrics is.

[KevShmev]

Same here.   

[hefdaddy42]

Because you seem to counter any criticism made in this thread. That says something.

Because 90% of it is ridiculous for me and 10% is ridiculously exaggerated.

100% correct and the reason why someone doesn't need to give the

the lyrics really feel like they're written by someone who knows what he's writing about.

answer any real credibility.

The shame of it all is that if Petrucci really was impassioned about any of these subjects I'm sure it would've shone but it looks like he never really gave more than a first drafts glance before handing it off to LaBrie.

Do I even need to answer this or should I count it as a self-failing response?

Well, since it isn't a self-failing response, you should probably answer it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I am still gasping for air over the assertion that all of Portnoy's lyrics are at least very good and that the AA ones are "absolutely amazing."   

While it is true that the AA saga doesn't contain his worst lyrics, (We all know what song is meant to get that title) they're no lyrical masterpieces.

[Darkes7]

Because you seem to counter any criticism made in this thread. That says something.

Because 90% of it is ridiculous for me and 10% is ridiculously exaggerated.

100% correct and the reason why someone doesn't need to give the

the lyrics really feel like they're written by someone who knows what he's writing about.

answer any real credibility.

The shame of it all is that if Petrucci really was impassioned about any of these subjects I'm sure it would've shone but it looks like he never really gave more than a first drafts glance before handing it off to LaBrie.

Do I even need to answer this or should I count it as a self-failing response?

Well, since it isn't a self-failing response, you should probably answer it.

Looking how detailed and obviously well-thought the lyrics are, they are definitely way more than that. The Great Debate achieves the genius of showing both sides and making it actually objective, which is incredibly rare in case of songs which get into any kind of political or similar topics. A Rite of Passage is so precisely crafted and so detailed that it takes one read of the lyrics to see that someone had definitely read quite a bit about this, which is also true.

I am still gasping for air over the assertion that all of Portnoy's lyrics are at least very good and that the AA ones are "absolutely amazing."   

Sorry, forgot that the measure of good taste is considering Surrounded and Under a Glass Moon the best lyrics created in the history of mankind.

In fact, why do I even bother? It's amazing that on what's supposed to be a DT fan board, I'm the only one left defending the band and not whining about every single detail on every album. Always nice not to be disappointed by fellow fans.

[Adami]

We're not complaining about every single detail. You're just defending every single thing the band does.

Nothing about The Great Debate is really good, it's (as someone said) basically a sum up of a wiki article. Being objective is easy when you're writing a school paper, which is pretty much what he did.

If you listened to Iced Earth, do you find the lyrics to The Glorious Burden to be well written too?


By the way, I am a huge DT fan. I love the band. They're not my favorite anymore, but I still love them. I will buy their new album pretty much no matter what. I listen to 6DOIT (album), ToT, 8vm, Systematic Chaos and BC&SL pretty often. But just because I like them doesn't mean I think they're perfect. I'm (and most other people here are) able to recognize their flaws amidst their strengths.

The same goes for my fav band PoS. I can criticize them when they need to be critcized. Just because I love a band doesn't mean they are perfect.

[Darkes7]

  Which is probably why I've had more complaints about e.g. The Count of Tuscany than anyone else I've seen on DTF. And you're complaining about every single thing the band has done after SFAM. Six Degrees is a fake suite and actually 8 songs with bad flow, The Great Debate sucks and sounds like a school paper, Train of Thought is going fashionable metal, Octavarium is average except for the title track, Systematic Chaos... never mind, hand me the flamethrower, BC&SL has terrible lyrics and nothing new. I could make a full list of "complaints" I've seen but don't want to cause another forum crash so I'll leave it here.

What? Are you even serious?

Only heard of the album, never the album itself. But what I've heard about it makes me think it's the opposite of being objective in any way.

[Adami]

I never said half of that stuff. I actually love the great debate. I just think the lyrics are mediocre. I didn't even say they were bad. I also never said anything about 6DOIT the song itself, good song, lyrics suit it just fine.

How can I complain about "every single thing" yet still love the albums a great deal?

[Darkes7]

Then if everyone loves DT and the albums so much, why do 95% of threads become "bash DT in various levels of diplomacy" threads (such as this one) and any kind of appreciation which is not I&W-related is extremely rare?

[Adami]

Then if everyone loves DT and the albums so much, why do 95% of threads become "bash DT in various levels of diplomacy" threads (such as this one) and any kind of appreciation which is not I&W-related is extremely rare?

I prefer Awake to I&W myself.


There is lots of praise, but also lots of criticism. The bands direction, at this point, is getting criticism. We as fans have every right to criticise anything we feel is worthy of it.

Go to 5/8, check out their DT threads. Then re-read ours. You'll see ours aren't harsh at all.

[orcus116]

Ok Darkes I can see you're passionate about this so lemme just sit you down and explain it how me and a few other "bashers" are seeing it. Okay? Cool.

So Dream Theater is like five chefs working in a 5 star restaurant. Every single one is amazing at what they do and has the ability to produce high quality products. When the restaurant opened back in the late, late 80s they made some filet mignon and veggies that wasn't quite ready but showed great promise. By '92 they honed their skills and produced a meal that finally blew everyone out of the water. Everything was cooked just right and they showed they could put the right amount of their specialty homemade spices in the middle of the meal, which became their signature dish. They even prepared elaborate side dishes to complement these meals which lead to some debate but were overall very thoughtful inclusions.

So as time passed the restaurant grew, mostly by name and kinda by reputation. When the new head chef came in he brought some well needed change to the kitchen and introduced them some exotic recipes and spices. The new chef and these recipes became a hit and instead of experimenting like they did back when they were first trying to find what worked they decided that this would suffice. This worked until the filet mignon started to become bland and to compensate the band decided to unleash their signature spices to make it work.

Soon after, the chefs realized that whenever they were backed into a corner they could just throw the spices on whatever meal they produced and, at worst, it could become passible, even if the meal didn't call for the spices. Even the side dishes, which they prepared with as much care as the main dishes, were coming in frozen and just getting tossed out after being unheated without any thought at all. Soon the original patrons decided they weren't really into to the new bastardizations of the old stuff and that the "new" stuff really wasn't fresh at all. What the five chefs would once produce as a world class filet is now pretty much the quality of a McDonalds hamburger: same ingredients, way less thought put into it.

So that is pretty much why us "bashers" are concerned about Dream Theater. We don't listen to the band to hate them as much as you want to think, we're just disappointed at where they are going and where they have been for the past few years. Stop proclaiming yourself as some kind of savior like the band actually gives a shit if anyone stands up for comments about their recent music.

[Adami]

I'm hungry.

[Global Laziness]

I'm hungry.

Dammit, you beat me to it.

[orcus116]

(We'll stop at a McDonalds on the way home)

[Global Laziness]

Alright! You're the coolest!

[hefdaddy42]

Then if everyone loves DT and the albums so much, why do 95% of threads become "bash DT in various levels of diplomacy" threads (such as this one) and any kind of appreciation which is not I&W-related is extremely rare?

Because if no one here cared about the band, none of the things they complain about would bother them.

[Adami]

If 95% of threads were DT bashing, then 43 threads on the first page alone would be too.

Just saying. But if you want, I can go to each of those 43 threads and say "myung is asian and has a small penis".

Which clearly isn't true since his penis is often quoted as being the inspiration for the movie anaconda.

[black_biff_stadler]

I say when DT shows up at the studio, they find a 4 piece kit, grand piano and a whatever other acoustic odd instruments JR can use, 5-6 differently tuned acoustic guitars, basses and a chapman stick. And DT have to make a record like that, whatever happened to challenges? Since when did being comfortable inside your box equal good and prog?

Dream Crimson? 

[PixelDream]

Dream Theater is just giving their (majority of) fanbase what they want to hear, and they're pretty good at it.

BC&SL is definately enjoyable, and features all their trademarks represented in some way. Some succesful, others a bit less.

They're on Roadrunner, and MP's into heavy stuff. They're not going to change on the next album I think. If 'Raw Dog' is any indication.. well let's just assume that it isn't. 'Raw Dog' isn't that bad, but it features everything about DT that they've done too much of.

[Global Laziness]

If 95% of threads were DT bashing, then 43 threads on the first page alone would be too.

Just saying. But if you want, I can go to each of those 43 threads and say "myung is asian and has a small penis".

Which clearly isn't true since his penis is often quoted as being the inspiration for the movie anaconda.

And this round goes to Adami.