TSF rethink

[Martinman300]

After initially really digging this song, I've now come to the conclusion that it's a bit poor by DT standards, I mean, it's as if they have just gone yeah take that riff there, stick it there etc. The intro and everything up to the keys solo is ok, but everything after that is so lacking in creativity it's just annoying. Then its the end and it's like, ZOMG THE STORY ENDS WHERE IT BEGAN!

ANy thoughts?

[ZBomber]

It was a cool concept when it first came out, and it did exactly what it needs to do... end the suite and bring everything full circle. However, I don't think the song itself is that great... works much better when played entirely with the suite.

[Jamesman42]

TSF is the second best on the album.

[antigoon]

TSF is the second best on the album.

Yeah, it's very good.

[skydivingninja]

I got goosebumps the first time I heard The Shattered Fortress.  Its an awesome song, and my 3rd favorite on the album (behind TBOT and TCOT).  Its the perfect way to close the suite.

FLY NOW BE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Dark Master Of Sin]

I absolutely hated it, did on my first listen, and still do. It's like ending a series with a clip show.

[zmazar]

TSF is one of the songs that has grown on me.  I think I appreciated it more once I listened to the suite. 

[kirbywelch92]

TSF is like a video game sequel that's just as good as the original, but doesn't bring anything new to the table. It's just mainly a rehashing of what was already there, it's not bad, it's just not great.

[Tuneman]

the solo is pretty sick

[Darkes7]

TSF is the second best on the album.

Yep, this. I had wished for the ending of the AA Suite to be something really BIG, like something similar to In The Presence of Enemies [in terms of composition], but I was entirely satisfied with what I got. I've never thought it's "like a medley" or anything close, it just felt to me like an amazing progressive metal song with lots of references to the previous parts. They are really cleverly composed into the song, sometimes bringing a grin to my face, and sometimes a real sentiment ("keep all of me..." - it was like if I was listening to Octavarium for the first time again). It's been my second favourite after A Nightmare to Remember and remains as such.

[Rafael Guerra]

I actually think its amazing, even heard alone. I agree the "Repetance-like" section is a little "deja-vuish", but the 3 first minutes are very original and the Responsible part is just fantastic, one the best singing moments of James in the album IMO.

[contest_sanity]

I absolutely hated it, did on my first listen, and still do. It's like ending a series with a clip show.

More like the 'Seinfeld' finale, actually, if people remember that.  A host of popular characters (riffs) making appearances so as to re-live the greatest moments of the show (suite).  Of course, a lot of people disliked that finale -- but I always argued: what else were they supposed to do?  I wouldn't want a finale that was completely original and sent the whole story off in some random new direction without resolution.  I loved that finale and I love TSF.  They both rule.

Now this has got me thinking about equating DT and Seinfeld, which leads me to believe Larry David is Kevin Moore.  He left the original entity, formed a new tv show, and then many years later reunited Seinfeld on Curb Your Enthusiasm.  If this patterns holds true, DT will break up only to eventually reunite on a Chroma Key album.

[Birch Boy]

[hefdaddy42]

I got goosebumps the first time I heard The Shattered Fortress. 

I did too, especially at the end (the Glass Prison intro).  I think it's fantastic, and the repeated parts work really well together.  I don't really understand what the people who hate it (who liked the first four songs) were expecting.

[Zook]

TSF is the second best on the album.

!!! We agree on something! This... Can't... Be....

[The Letter M]

Count me in the camp that believes it's the perfect way to close The Twelve-Step Suite. I mean, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th songs all had parts that re re-imaginings of previous parts/sections of the suite itself, and being the finale of a near hour-long suite, I would EXPECT some, if not MANY of the main themes to come back. And I liked that they brought back more than just a couple main themes (melodies), but also some grooves and riffs, which were used with different instrumentations or parts on-top of it. It's not like they literally cut-and-pasted sections of the prior songs into TSF.

I feel like once it's played live, in the context of the whole suite, people will grow to understand it and love it. I think for some, it's just hearing it with the suite that convinces them that it's exactly what the ending should be. I know when I first heard it, I was a bit fan-boyish when I heard the TGP riffs or the TDS groove, the opening riff to TROAE or the chorus from Repentance. It was like "AHH! It's that part! Niiiiice"...

...but when I heard the whole suite together, it made even MORE sense. Hearing each of the twelve movements/Steps back-to-back made the ending SOOOO satisfying for me, and hearing the opening/ending of "I. Reflection" at the end of "XII. Responsible" made so much sense to me... and put a huge grin across my face.

-Marc.

[Dcrupi]

After initially really digging this song, I've now come to the conclusion that it's a bit poor by DT standards, I mean, it's as if they have just gone yeah take that riff there, stick it there etc. The intro and everything up to the keys solo is ok, but everything after that is so lacking in creativity it's just annoying. Then its the end and it's like, ZOMG THE STORY ENDS WHERE IT BEGAN!

ANy thoughts?

Gotta agree with this.  After all the buildup, was a bit disappointed...the whole intro is really cool, but after the key solo, things do take a turn for the worse.  Not a bad song by any estimation, but I was very underwhelmed. 

[ariich]

after the key solo, things do take a turn for the worse.

Hell no, the guitar solo and "I am responsible" sections are brilliant!

Such a good song, still my second favourite 12-step song.

[Adami]

Good song. The ONLY really bad thing about is the keyboard solo, it just doesn't end. I seriously black out when it's on.

[STEVETHEATER]

TSF is one of the songs that has grown on me.  I think I appreciated it more once I listened to the suite. 

Yep, me to... in the beginning I didn't like it. But now I love it.... although it's not the best song, I still appreciate waht they did with it.

Steve

[Jamesman42]

TSF is the second best on the album.

!!! We agree on something! This... Can't... Be....

Zook, I. . .I think you're OK!!!

[ReaPsTA]

I absolutely hated it, did on my first listen, and still do. It's like ending a series with a clip show.

See, whatever the song's good and bad qualities, I don't think you can say that. The parts aren't just literally moved from the rest of the 12-step suite, and they way they're arranged in the finale tells its own story.

[Global Laziness]

I think the song could have used a little bit more in terms of original content, but I still think it's a solid song and a solid closer.

[ACID_FOX]

I love the "Look In The Mirror, What Do You See" line, easily my favourite delivery by JLB on the album, and I also love the GP reprise at the end, but other than that I'm not to keen on it. 

[LordCaptainMcKlockenstein]

There are lots of little parts that I really like, but overall, it's kinda weak. Parts of it just feel patched together and I really, do not like the beginning of the song. At all.

That said, the "I am responsible!" and "Look in the mirror!" parts are fantastic and some parts of the old AA songs really transition rather well into each other.

[Martinman300]

The bits i do like are the "look in the mirror" bit, "responsible" and the guitar solo.

[erik16]

The intro keys are so awesomezzzzzzzzzzz DT FANBOI

[Darkes7]

More like the intro as a whole, with the amazing riff and the strings behind it. One of the best song intros in DT history.

[hefdaddy42]

More like the intro as a whole, with the amazing riff and the strings behind it. One of the best song intros in DT history.

I agree, it's one of my favorite parts of the song.  It has almost a sense of foreboding, signaling that the end of something is about to happen.

[Volk9]

While I enjoy it more than I did initially, its still not that good.

[Kyo]

Good song. The ONLY really bad thing about is the keyboard solo, it just doesn't end. I seriously black out when it's on.

I like the song as well and I agree that the keyboard solo is the worst
thing about it. I honestly don't find Jordan's soloing over such riffs very
convincing in most cases - to me he often sounds out of his element
and the TSF solo is a good example that this hasn't really fundamentally
changed during his ten years with the band. I wish they'd get away from
this and feature his soloing over sections with more harmonic movement -
he sounds so good when he's soloing melodically over things like the
ending of Crossing Over (Rudess Morgenstein Project, 1997) and
sadly it's really not something that you hear from him in DT.

[Ben_Jamin]

The only part I don't like about this song is the outro. Reminds me too much of Octavarium. Everything else I have no problem with.

[hefdaddy42]

The only part I don't like about this song is the outro. Reminds me too much of Octavarium.

[Plasmastrike]

The only part I don't like about this song is the outro. Reminds me too much of Octavarium. Everything else I have no problem with.

Haha wtf?

[yorost]

As an addition to suite -> good
As a song on the album -> ok

Considering the source material for the suite the ending was looking to be a less exciting offering, a calmer end to many tumultuous and emotional pieces.  It works well as the closing segments of the suite, which is probably what matters most in this case.  On its own it isn't one of the top songs on the album, but what would anyone expect from something that's tying shut a suite spanning five albums.