A thought on Octavarium

[BlobVanDam]

Because it's all about context. It would make no sense to use a term contrary to its accepted definition of its context.
I'll accept that you have a different definition, but I still I disagree as to that intro being wank. It's a slow built-up intro, increasing in intensity to set the mood of the song. In a 24 minute song, I don't see 4-5 minutes as being excessive or self indulgent any more than for example the 3 minute outro solo by JP for TBOT.

I get that but based on your use of ratio of intro to total song length then Six Degrees could have a bland ethereal 7-9 minute continuum intro and that'd be just fine. I have no problem with establishing mood but the when the pacing causes me to lose focus and become frustrated at the waste of time it's turned into I draw the line. At least after those 4 minutes(well 3:48 anyway) he brings in that melody that begins to give the song some life.

What I don't understand is how many people on this forum slobber all over 8vm's intro but virtually everyone will pan Opeth's much shorter outro to Dirge for November for it's "redundancy." 

Where is anyone slobbering over the intro? Some people like it, some don't. And it's bland in your opinion, but to me it's a great moody build-up to the song, building up intensity over an interesting and unique underlying chord progression. I respect that you don't like it (plenty of others who don't, and I skip it occasionally too, no big deal), but I don't think it's wank any more than the intro to Trial of Tears, the mid-section of TCOT, or any other lengthy outro solo by JP like TBOT.

[ZKX-2099]

Why do you all keep referring to wank as if its a bad thing?

[black_biff_stadler]

Why do you all keep referring to wank as if its a bad thing?

You got this one Blob or do I need to elaborate?

[BlobVanDam]

Why do you all keep referring to wank as if its a bad thing?

You got this one Blob or do I need to elaborate?

Nah, we're good here.

[hefdaddy42]

austin = DTF's laziest poster 

Oh gee thanks
I came back to dtf and told myself that I would adopt a new posting system
if someone says something better than or as good as I could say it myself I'd rather credit them in my own opinion through their words rather than write it out myself
but at least i have status here now. That's going in my usertitle

And I thought Hef was the minimalist around here.

Yes, but hef can sum up entire paragraphs-worth of opinion in only one word in a way that no other man has ever quite mastered.

True.

[ACID_FOX]

Replace IWBY with ANYTHING and it will be a better album.

[black_biff_stadler]

Replace IWBY and TALW with ANYTHING even Mmmmbop and it will be a better album.

fix'd  

[ACID_FOX]

I'm quite partial to TALW, but  IWBY is just terrible.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm quite partial to TALW, but  IWBY is just terrible.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[MinistroRaven]

Couldn't find a thread for Panic Attack so I put this one here

https://youtu.be/POUn7FnqZgE?si=-S6qPrE-rfHvrtjN   

WOW truly amazing

[Jamesman42]

Nice!

That wasn't standard tuning, right? I tried to play it by ear on my 5 string back in the 2000s but couldn't quite get it. I think the d string is tuned down a whole step, but I am not that good at telling.

[brakkum]

Nice!

That wasn't standard tuning, right? I tried to play it by ear on my 5 string back in the 2000s but couldn't quite get it. I think the d string is tuned down a whole step, but I am not that good at telling.

Might be that the whole bass is a whole step down, I have no evidence of that, but it'd make playing the whole tune easier to grok. Found a really good transcription that has that: https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/dream-theater-panic-attack-bass-tab-s5463

[Jamesman42]

That looks a lot easier than what I was doing back then.

[HOF]

Today, I thought of one reason why Octavarium is still probably the band's most underrated album.  It's so hard to digest, because after TROAE the energy level plummets.  Usually, for an album to feel consistent, there needs to be a "one-two" punch of opening songs.  This is the forumla that works on plenty of great albums, including DT's Awake and PT's In Absentia and DT's Addicted.

What if 8va were set up like this?

1. TROAE
2. Panic Attack
3. These Walls
4. IWBY
5. NE
6. TALW
7. SS
8. 8va


Would you like it better?


Would you at least feel like it was better?






















Of course, that'd fuck up the whole concept but oh well

I'd like it better without Panic Attack, The Answer Lies Within, Sacrificed Sons, Never Enough, and about half of the title track.

[Dream Team]

I noticed a lot of the wannabes from this thread are long gone  .

[Jamesman42]

Don't worry, I'm still here

[TheCountOfNYC]

Might be that the whole bass is a whole step down, I have no evidence of that, but it'd make playing the whole tune easier to grok. Found a really good transcription that has that: https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/dream-theater-panic-attack-bass-tab-s5463

The tuning is, from high to low: C G D A E Bb, but the D string is tuned down a whole step to C for the intro. It's a very weird tuning, which might explain why they don't play it live that often despite it being one of their more commercially popular songs.

[pg1067]

Holy necropost, Batman!

The whole "one-armed kid plays The Dance of Eternity on a bunch of construction buckets" genre of videos is something in which I have less than zero interest.

[Jamesman42]

The tuning is, from high to low: C G D A E Bb, but the D string is tuned down a whole step to C for the intro. It's a very weird tuning, which might explain why they don't play it live that often despite it being one of their more commercially popular songs.

Nice and that makes sense.

[hunnus2000]

My thought on Oct is that it's one of their best sounding albums. 

[SoundscapeMN]

III. Full Circle references (nuggets?)

https://www.instagram.com/p/C87ot7WPGpS/

[DT05]

Now that's interesting. Panic Attack as track two could be interesting, but it would definitely make the album feel like Train of Thought pt. 2 to have three alt metal tinged songs to start it off. I like the pacing of heavy-slow-heavy-uplifting-heavy-alternative-slow-epic that Octavarium has. But I do love alternative sequencing, very interesting choice