A Vocal Demo (kind of) to see if anyone wants to collaborate musically

[Shadow2222]

As the topic title says, here is a little something I threw together when I had time (3:00 AM last Saturday), and I know its not the best I can do, as I was tired, but it was also the only time I had access to a microphone (it was my friend's usb rock band microphone). I am getting a microphone in a few days, so maybe I can do a better quality one eventually.

Anyways, I must apologize to Sonata Arctica and Dream Theater for butchering their songs  .
I did this on the spur of the moment with no vocal warmups or any preparation, I hadn't even picked the songs yet. I guarantee I can do better, but I guess this is all I have for the moment. I can sing a lot lower, but basses don't get very many gigs, so I've been singing in my higher, but comfortable, range for a while.

I also scream a little bit, which is kind of good, but I prefer singing.

Also, sorry for the random profanity 
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=36X1YMJL

[black_biff_stadler]

You've got some promise but why don't you sing the DT stuff in the original key? Either you're missing notes or the diff key just makes it sound a bit off 

[Shadow2222]

Thanks for the post.

You know, honestly, at the time, I didn't realize I wasn't singing it in the original key, since I just kind of on the spot decided to do those songs.

The other thing, unfortunately, is that I am very far from having the range of James LaBrie. I am a bass, not a tenor (or counter tenor for that matter).

I can't sing a lot of DT stuff such as Metropolis or Another Day, or even some of his "lower" stuff.

I want to be a prog or power metal vocalist, but I don't know if that can happen because I am a bass.
Admittedly I have a good range for a bass, but in that kind of music, you don't use the lower range all that much.

[Shadow2222]

EDIT: whoops didn't mean to post

[black_biff_stadler]

Have you made any attempts to expand your range? I'm not sure how much you can as it probably depends on the person but you should try to get with a vocal coach and see what options exist and do whatever you can. I don't adhere too strongly to the clichés that are bolted onto most genres so I could care less whether you're a bass, alto or whatever but unfortunately the "nerd" genres of metal such as prog, power, technical, black, etc. are pretty notorious for having fans that are exceedingly purist in the way they judge the bands they listen to.

I hate to see a singer sacrifice their ability to effectively convey emotion and the mood of a certain part just because they're straining to hit notes at the end of or even past their range. This won't be the best example since the guy I'm about to mention has sick range but go with me for a minute. Daniel Gildenlow from Pain of Salvation is every bit as much a storyteller as he is a vocalist and by having such a great grip on this approach he makes it to where he can get away with almost any octave he wants to use regardless of the part. And even though prog and power are stereotyped as being wailer country, you shouldn't let that get you down. If you come to a part where you're writing a vocal part and you've written a note or series of notes you can't sing then think of other dynamic ways to add intensity like a crescendo with increasing grit on your voice.

I've already gotten way too long with this so just remember to always keep working on getting better and still be satisfied with what talent you currently have and learn to work with what you actually have at the moment rather than being frustrated with what you don't. Rock on brother!

[Shadow2222]

Thank you, I really appreciate your input. I've never gone to a vocal coach, but I've always considered it.

[sneakyblueberry]

Argh, I have the same dilemma.  I'd love to be able to wail but alas I am also around the bass-baritone range.  I'd recommend checking out The Zen of Screaming, which is a DVD about correct vocal technique.  There's a section in there where the vocal coach (I forget her name) goes into detail about range. If I remember correctly its less about struggling to expand your range and more about being comfortable with the voice you have.  Also don't be put off by the title of the DVD, its mostly just what a regular-ass vocal coach would take you through.

Downloading the file now

[Manolito Mystiq]

Who said you're a bass? Your timbre is quite too lyrical for a bass, maybe even for a bariton. Frank Sinatra? That's a bariton. Hell, Geoff Tate I consider to be a bariton.

Then again, those vocal types is meant for the classical repertoire. Mariah Carey is definitely not a soprano, I would consider her to be an alto. Partly you can hear it from one timbre, partly it's how low one can go without using vocal fry. The same thing for someone like Pavarotti back in his 20s where he could sing a high f (above tenor c) in his modal range, that doesn't make him an alto, he's still a tenor.

It's like with a guitar and a baritone guitar. The total range of both are exactly the same, but they start in a different part and they end in a different part. Also a baritone guitar has more bass sound. So if you would play exactly the same melody on both guitars, you could distinguish them by the timbre. A baritone guitar can go lower without retuning the instrument, though. And technically(, if frets where infinite,) it could go as high as or even higher than a regular guitar.

There is a huge debate how you can distinguish the vocal types. Some say by timbre only (light and lyric versus dark and dramatic), others by starting range, others both (which I feel).
Then you could go to a doctor who could check your vocal folds and larynx in general. The smaller the construction, the higher vocal type you have, the bigger, the lower vocal type you have.

Then finally, there is the technique. People usually say, out of all vocal types, there are hardly tenors, which is not true (to me). The thing with tenors, is that the vocal range where they shine the best is near the passagio or passage or bridge of the voice, it's like you have to keep switching between gear 2 and 3 of a manual car. So some seem to not being able to go higher than a certain range, because of lack of technique, not because they are not tenors, same as a car which, because of a technicality, it can't go further than the second gear.

Your timbre is definitely darker than LaBrie, who is clearly a high lyric tenor, but I would never say you would be a bass.

Do you want to hear a bass? This is one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23cCpcUyrXY

This is a recent recording of me (yes, I need a lot of work as well)
https://www.box.net/shared/9kdoicn195

[black_biff_stadler]

Interesting and informative post Manolito Mystiq. Had no idea about there being such a subjective array of ways to determine vocal types. I always just seemed to think it was dictated by whatever the high end of one's range was. "ManolitoMystiq" is kinda long to type though so would it be okay if I just shortened it to "ManMyst"?

[Manolito Mystiq]

You can call me Manolito, Manolo, Mano, MM, hehe.

Oh, and thank you for the compliment.

If what you said were true, I would be a male coloratura soprano, because of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuFUthLvYms

and this:

https://manolito.mystiq.googlepages.com/MGR_4Oct_2.MP3

Cheers,

Mano

[NuclearAnton]

Yeah, I Have to agree with Mano there, you are definetly not a bass. I labeled myself as a bass when I started singing, because
my speaking voice was quite low, and I couldn't even hit Labrie's mid-range notes. But in time, I realised that
I just found it easier to think ty myself: "I'm a bass, that's why I can't hit those notes. Man, I wish I was as lucky as those singers that are tenors, or even baritones.", instead of dealing with the amount of practice I would need to get there myself.

I started singing 4 years ago, and couldn't hit the notes in the chorus of Josh Groban's "You Raise me up".
A few weeks back, I recorded Dream Theater's "Wither" without any major difficulty.

You've got a good voice, it's just a matter of finding the right exercises and vocal style, and you'll find your range
expanding in no time!

[Shadow2222]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Once I get some money together, I think I'll pay a few visits to a vocal coach, and I'll do some internet research.

I believe I sing with mostly correct technique (as much as my choir teacher has ever said, i.e. using the diaphragm etc.), so what would you guys say is the most important thing to know when attempting to increase range?

(And I'm still open to work with someone, even if you would prefer I increase my range/better my technique first)

[NuclearAnton]

The most important key to increasing your range (in my opinion) is falsetto!
Every note you can hit in falsetto, you can hit in full voice with the right training. It's mostly a matter of the right breath support, and being able to shift between the different registers (Chest, full/head, falsetto, whistle etc) in order to prevent straining.

I've gotten almost all my information about singing at this site called The Voice Connection (www.thevoiceconnection.com), by Jaime Vendera. He's a really good vocal coach, and he actually checks in on his own message board once in a while to answer questions and giving feedback on recordings. James LaBrie is actually one of his students!

You should check it out man, you might find something useful. I'm almost certain that you will.

 

[Shadow2222]

Thank you very much for this info. I can sing extremely high in my falsetto (well, I can hit every JLB pitch). I'd definitely like to be able to sing up there comfortably.

The only unfortunate thing was that with college coming up, I won't have as much time as I'd like to dedicate to practicing and I don't think I'll have any time to form a band.

Therefore, I kind of wanted to start doing that stuff now. Do you think people ever send demos to record companies (as an individual, not a band)? Would Nuclear Blast USA, for example, just laugh at my voice and throw my tape away? Or might they pass it on to people looking for a band?

I'm trying to be hopeful, even though I know its extremely hard to succeed as a new band in today's economy.

[black_biff_stadler]

Do you think people ever send demos to record companies (as an individual, not a band)? Would Nuclear Blast USA, for example, just laugh at my voice and throw my tape away? Or might they pass it on to people looking for a band?

I'm trying to be hopeful, even though I know its extremely hard to succeed as a new band in today's economy.

Going straight to a major label without having a band or any live footage seems like a possible waste of time-not that I'm saying don't do it-but as long as that wouldn't take up a huge amount of time I guess it couldn't hurt to at least try. Instead I'd suggest going on craigslist.org or any of the other countless internet sources to try to meet other musicians in your area or where ever it may be that you're going to college. Also, try to see if bands are looking for singers if your local guitar shops have any bulletin boards reserved for want ads. CD stores may also be an option.

You have a lot of good years left ahead of you before you'll even be close to being "too old" for this kind of thing so while I greatly respect your level of motivation I feel it's important you allow yourself time to find your comfort zone so you don't end up getting screwed over by record companies looking to only satisfy their needs.

If you are fortunate enough to form a band that has a good level of unity you guys can grow into a tight unit that writes music well and can form a following in your area. When talent scouts come out to see bands they're considering signing it helps to have a crowd that is crazy about seeing the band play. Also if you end up not getting the chance to become a major-label artist then it'll be a lot better having your own established band with an established fanbase(local, regional or whatever) to continue making music with and playing shows with than it would be spinning your wheels because you tried to chase your dream down without taking a step back and looking at the big picture.

[dreamrafa]

Would Nuclear Blast USA, for example, just laugh at my voice and throw my tape away? Or might they pass it on to people looking for a band?

Probably none of those options would happend if you send them a demo, most likely they simply wont even listen to it, labels recieve many MANY demos and albums weekly... And probably they only considere material that is in some kind "complete", why would they sign a band or artist that doesnt have a record ready? if they can sign with plenty other bands that already have some recording done?

And specially in the case of major labels, they look only for stablished bands or artists.

If you really want to do it, dont ever give up, most of bands and artist that are famous and succesfull, have dedicated many years to it, get your own band, there are a lot of musicians out there, its not that hard, but it wont happend in 1 month either...

Also its not a bad idea to learn to play an instrument yourself, you dont need to become a virtuoso on it, but will help you to develop your musical knowledge and you can writte your own music, and then you can show your compositions to other musicians and form a band quickly.

Best luck!

[black_biff_stadler]

Also its not a bad idea to learn to play an instrument yourself, you dont need to become a virtuoso on it, but will help you to develop your musical knowledge and you can writte your own music, and then you can show your compositions to other musicians and form a band quickly.

Best luck!

Very good advice. Despite me being a guitarist I would recommend piano/keyboard simply because the layout of the notes is more consistent and easy to understand than any other instrument so it's a great way to make quick progress toward being a more skilled musician and composer. From the few times I've been approached by singers to collaborate I can tell you that it really sucks when they think you can just magically know exactly what kind of music they want to support their vocals and it only gets worse when they think they can hum a simple melody and *voila* 5-minute song ready to record.

Still though guitar and bass have their own distinct advantages since an acoustic guitar is was more portable than a keyboard will ever be and it doesn't require electricity. Bass is good cuz once again portability is a factor plus even if it's electric(which is more than likely what you'd end up getting if you went that way since acoustic basses are more of a niché item) you can still hear them pretty well without the amplifier as long as you're in a low-noise area. Also it's a lot easier to sound good on bass playing single notes rather than chords than it is on guitar since it has a fuller richness to its sound.

[Shadow2222]

I understand what you guys are saying, and there is some really good advice in the last few posts.

I'm going to look around and see what musicians I can find in my school (as that seems the easiest place to start).

[black_biff_stadler]

Good call. My best success with recruiting has usually been finding the balance between "friend" and "business partner." As in it helps to find people that you'd get along with and have stuff in common with as you would with any of your regular buds since you're likely to hang out with them more regularly once you all get comfortable being around each other.

[Manolito Mystiq]

Hey there everyone.

My most recent vocal demo: https://www.box.net/shared/vxrqx71xzk

I did this on X Factor, and it has been used as a promotional commercial for the show which started yesterday. Too bad my performance there wasn't as good as this recording, though.

Mano