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Marillion

Started by tri.ad, April 27, 2009, 11:38:37 AM

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SoundscapeMN

I guess I'm pining for them to find a way (Crowdfund maybe) to hold 1 Convention in Las Vegas someday before they retire.

The Curious Orange

There is no way its going to be possible for the band to do a weekend in the US given your country's visa and tax requirements. The point of the Montreal weekend was that it was easier for US fans to travel to Canada than for the band to travel to the US. They will doubtlessly do another US tour at some stage, but they lost money on the last US tour, so it's just not a priority for them.

There's a lot of US bands that never come to Europe, so it all balances out inn the wash. Look on the bright side, bands never go to Australia....

Stadler

It baffles me that they lost money on that; I saw the tour, it was a full house in Pennsylvania.  I get it, there's more to it than that, but lesser bands travel from Europe to the States and play smaller places to lesser crowds and make out okay.  They're a business savvy band, but sometimes I wonder. 

jammindude

Quote from: Stadler on June 23, 2022, 05:45:13 AM
It baffles me that they lost money on that; I saw the tour, it was a full house in Pennsylvania.  I get it, there's more to it than that, but lesser bands travel from Europe to the States and play smaller places to lesser crowds and make out okay.  They're a business savvy band, but sometimes I wonder.

Ya but you wouldn't believe what they sometimes have to do to make it work.

NWOBHM legends Raven played a local dive bar in Seattle. They couldn't afford to bring their own drum kit, so it was written into the contract that, in addition to guaranteed payment, the promoter would provide a specified drum kit at his own expense.

Just an example of how those things sometimes work. But I can't really picture Marillion doing something like that.

XeRocks81

tested positive for covid this morning, right before I was going to leave for Marillion Weekend tomorrow.  FML   :facepalm:

Deathless

Quote from: Stadler on June 23, 2022, 05:45:13 AM
It baffles me that they lost money on that; I saw the tour, it was a full house in Pennsylvania.  I get it, there's more to it than that, but lesser bands travel from Europe to the States and play smaller places to lesser crowds and make out okay.  They're a business savvy band, but sometimes I wonder.

I would love to see a band give a full economic breakdown of costs/expenses and then profits etc at a scale like Marillion. I have seen a lot of US-based bands cancelling tours in Europe as of late so I'm sure there are different issues on both sides (Visas, fuel costs, etc).

lonestar

Quote from: XeRocks81 on June 30, 2022, 07:20:26 AM
tested positive for covid this morning, right before I was going to leave for Marillion Weekend tomorrow.  FML   :facepalm:

Oh fuck dude... That sucks so bad.

Stadler

Quote from: XeRocks81 on June 30, 2022, 07:20:26 AM
tested positive for covid this morning, right before I was going to leave for Marillion Weekend tomorrow.  FML   :facepalm:

Sincerely, sorry to hear that.  I know this is something you looked forward to.  Any remote options?

XeRocks81

no remote option, although I think the stream from saturday night in Leicester is being made available to rent again this weekend so I may do that. 

HOF

Yuck. Really sorry you're missing out. Hope you get well soon.

ytserush

Quote from: XeRocks81 on June 30, 2022, 07:20:26 AM
tested positive for covid this morning, right before I was going to leave for Marillion Weekend tomorrow.  FML   :facepalm:

Sorry to hear about that. Can't even imagine.

ytserush

Quote from: Stadler on June 23, 2022, 05:45:13 AM
It baffles me that they lost money on that; I saw the tour, it was a full house in Pennsylvania.  I get it, there's more to it than that, but lesser bands travel from Europe to the States and play smaller places to lesser crowds and make out okay.  They're a business savvy band, but sometimes I wonder.

Perhaps at this point Marillion don't want themselves or their fans to have to deal with late start times and/or the trapings of small clubs. They have achieved a certain standard in many of the places they play and we in the US don't meet that standard without some concessions being made.

Wife and I were talking about Fish possible hitting the road in '24 and how that he would like to play consecutive nights in cities so that he would be able to play all of the material he wanted to play and we're trying to figure out how that happens with him not losing his shirt or both of us standing for 3 plus hours and getting home at dawn on a work night. There aren't many options. He says he hopes to due and extensive US Tour (or about as extensive someone like him could realistically tour in the US) but that would be a blood bath unless you limited the tour to select major cities in theaters that people would be drawn to.

There's still time but I don't think it's a easy problem to solve.

What would be a no-brainer would be the Fish/Marillion double bill (but that would create expectations and pressure which would crush the feasibility of doing it.) There will be no reunion but that wouldn't stop the idea that it should/will happen. I get why nobody wants to go there, but that solves your Fish/Marillion touring problem. If there's to be a finale by both, that is the most logical way for it to go down but it's equally obvious to me why it won't happen.

HOF

Holidays in Eden remix/reissue date finally announced for September 16, 2022.

https://www.marillion.com/shop/albums/remast57.htm

This is the CD / Bluray version of a brand new (2022) Stereo & 5.1 Remix of Marillion's sixth album Holidays In Eden.

Disc One features a brand new stereo remix of the album by Stephen W Tayler.

Discs Two and Three feature the concert from the Hammersmith Odeon on 30th September 1991.

The blu-ray contains 48/24 stereo and LPCM 5.1 mixes and a DTS-HD Master 5.1 audio of the album. B-Sides and Bonus tracks are also included.

Video content consists of "Pain And Heaven" - an 85 minute documentary covering the making of the album.

Also included is the Rockpalast live performance from German TV (18 tracks) and the promotional videos for Cover My Eyes, No One Can and Dry Land.

Approximate running time is 3hrs 20mins.


Probably worth it for the concerts and the documentary alone, but I'm also always interested to see what the remix will be like.

jammindude

Did I miss something? I thought Season's End would be next. Is this a surprise to anyone but me?

Stadler

Quote from: jammindude on July 20, 2022, 09:12:58 AM
Did I miss something? I thought Season's End would be next. Is this a surprise to anyone but me?

Well, they seem to be going in a random order; I had hoped Season's End would be next, but I don't think anyone said definitively.  I missed out on Brave and Afraid...  (anyone got an extra copy they want to sell for some value less than my f-ing car?) so I'll buy this, but I'm waiting for Season's myself.  I want to hear The King Of Sunset Town in 5.1 really bad. 

Deathless

Quote from: jammindude on July 20, 2022, 09:12:58 AM
Did I miss something? I thought Season's End would be next. Is this a surprise to anyone but me?

They acknowledged it briefly on their facebook post that they hope to have Season's End released in 2023.

romdrums

Quote from: Stadler on July 20, 2022, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: jammindude on July 20, 2022, 09:12:58 AM
Did I miss something? I thought Season's End would be next. Is this a surprise to anyone but me?

Well, they seem to be going in a random order; I had hoped Season's End would be next, but I don't think anyone said definitively.  I missed out on Brave and Afraid...  (anyone got an extra copy they want to sell for some value less than my f-ing car?) so I'll buy this, but I'm waiting for Season's myself.  I want to hear The King Of Sunset Town in 5.1 really bad.

Brave and AOS are worth it, Stads.  Great stuff in there for sure.  I'm mad I missed out on the Clutching remaster.  I've got the Fugazi one, and I really don't like how they mixed the drums.  But, I think I'll grab this one and the Seasons End one.  I hope they include the live footage from Stoke Row to Ipanema and update that.  I wonder if they have the full show?

Stadler

Quote from: romdrums on July 20, 2022, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Stadler on July 20, 2022, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: jammindude on July 20, 2022, 09:12:58 AM
Did I miss something? I thought Season's End would be next. Is this a surprise to anyone but me?

Well, they seem to be going in a random order; I had hoped Season's End would be next, but I don't think anyone said definitively.  I missed out on Brave and Afraid...  (anyone got an extra copy they want to sell for some value less than my f-ing car?) so I'll buy this, but I'm waiting for Season's myself.  I want to hear The King Of Sunset Town in 5.1 really bad.

Brave and AOS are worth it, Stads.  Great stuff in there for sure.  I'm mad I missed out on the Clutching remaster.  I've got the Fugazi one, and I really don't like how they mixed the drums.  But, I think I'll grab this one and the Seasons End one.  I hope they include the live footage from Stoke Row to Ipanema and update that.  I wonder if they have the full show?

I have all four original ones; if you don't like the Fugazi mixes, be warned that on the Clutching package, the main album is a REMIX as well, and there are different vocals on there.  CaS is one of "those" albums for me; I know it SO well, inside and out, that the new vocals sometimes throw me for a loop.  But all the packages are great for what they are.

I'm going to keep looking for Brave and AoS, I just don't want to pay an arm and a leg for them.  I should have bought them from Racket when I had the chance. You snooze you lose. 

(Text me about Ipanema; the DVD has a complete show from DeMontfort Hall, Leicester, as well as some songs from another night there.  I've ripped that from the DVD.)

Lowdz

As a fairly new convert to the H era, mainly on the strength of the last three albums, I'll pick this up. I really like HiE.

Stadler

Quote from: Lowdz on July 20, 2022, 11:07:01 AM
As a fairly new convert to the H era, mainly on the strength of the last three albums, I'll pick this up. I really like HiE.

Be curious at some point how the various H albums stack up for you.  I was there in real time when Season's End came out, so in a lot of ways it will always be my personal favorite, even if there are two or three I like the music better on.

ytserush

Brave is the only Deluxe I didn't bother with. (I bought the original and first remaster and wasn't going to sink any more money into that album. )

Glad I bought Afraid of Sunlight though. I'd warmed to about half of the album by that point and the live concert on it is killer.  Can't believe that there is a version of Cannibal Surf Babe that I can tolerate and dare I say possibly enjoy.

MinistroRaven

Quote from: HOF on July 20, 2022, 08:07:32 AM
Holidays in Eden remix/reissue date finally announced for September 16, 2022.

https://www.marillion.com/shop/albums/remast57.htm

This is the CD / Bluray version of a brand new (2022) Stereo & 5.1 Remix of Marillion's sixth album Holidays In Eden.

Disc One features a brand new stereo remix of the album by Stephen W Tayler.

Discs Two and Three feature the concert from the Hammersmith Odeon on 30th September 1991.

The blu-ray contains 48/24 stereo and LPCM 5.1 mixes and a DTS-HD Master 5.1 audio of the album. B-Sides and Bonus tracks are also included.

Video content consists of "Pain And Heaven" - an 85 minute documentary covering the making of the album.

Also included is the Rockpalast live performance from German TV (18 tracks) and the promotional videos for Cover My Eyes, No One Can and Dry Land.

Approximate running time is 3hrs 20mins.


Probably worth it for the concerts and the documentary alone, but I'm also always interested to see what the remix will be like.

This one comes out tomorrow

HOF

Got my copy from Racket delivered today. Checked out part of the documentary first, will give the album a listen tomorrow.

HOF

Don't have a 5.1 setup so can't speak to that mix, but the stereo remix sounds great. It's probably not going to make it one of your favorite Marillion albums if you didn't like it before, but it does improve the sound as a whole (not that it sounded bad before). Pete's bass sounds great (they didn't just crank it up, but it has a bit more definition and space). The biggest improvement is in the atmospheric sections (Splintering Heart, The Rake's Progress, 100 Nights), where all of the little details are brought out and just breath a little better. The other major standout is Waiting to Happen, where the acoustic guitar sounds much more full and lush. Overall, the remix puts a new shine on an album that I've come to really enjoy over time after not caring for it initially. It's just a really nice mix of pop and prog, and very uniquely Marillion even with the poppier bits.

devieira73

I like Holidays... a lot. I think it could be an even better album with How Can I Hurt and Collection replacing Dry Land. About the remix, I loved it. My only complaint is that I miss that original "fat" drum sound (their drum sound from Misplaced to Holidays were the best from their discography IMO).

HOF

Quote from: devieira73 on September 17, 2022, 10:45:03 AM
I like Holidays... a lot. I think it could be an even better album with How Can I Hurt and Collection replacing Dry Land. About the remix, I loved it. My only complaint is that I miss that original "fat" drum sound (their drum sound from Misplaced to Holidays were the best from their discography IMO).

Man, Dry Land is one of my favorite Marillion tunes and How Can It Hurt is one of my least favorite! But A Collection is good! All of them are included in the original US version of the album. Didn't think the drums sounded different on the remix, except maybe a bit on Cover My Eyes. I didn't realize before watching the documentary that those were electronic drums that were sampled from Ian's kit and basically assembled by Christopher Neil.

devieira73

Hahaha we have to disagree on Dry Land and How Can I Hurt then! I think Dry Land a bit too much on the pop side for my taste. Great chorus by Hogarth though.
Drum samplers really?! Anyway I don't think the drums are sounding bad in the remix, but I like more the bigger sound of the original.

HOF

No One Can is the one that is too poppy for my tastes (it's fine but not a favorite). Dry Land I thought struck a great balance between pop and atmosphere. The original How We Live version maybe does that even better.

Stadler

For someone that grew up in the Fish era - I bought Misplaced Childhood upon release, more or less - and was thrilled with both Season's End and Vigil In A Wilderness Of Mirrors, I can't tell you how disappointing the one-two punch of Internal Exile and Holidays In Eden were.  What happened to my heroes, that so effortlessly put out powerful, deep material like Slainte Mhath, and King Of Sunset Town and View From The Hill?   Internal Exile showed just how badly Fish needed the "base" of Marillion, and Holidays showed just how badly Marillion wanted to have hit singles (maybe, just maybe, Fish was right in that whole blowup that led to his leaving!)


HOF

Quote from: Stadler on September 19, 2022, 05:29:42 AM
For someone that grew up in the Fish era - I bought Misplaced Childhood upon release, more or less - and was thrilled with both Season's End and Vigil In A Wilderness Of Mirrors, I can't tell you how disappointing the one-two punch of Internal Exile and Holidays In Eden were.  What happened to my heroes, that so effortlessly put out powerful, deep material like Slainte Mhath, and King Of Sunset Town and View From The Hill?   Internal Exile showed just how badly Fish needed the "base" of Marillion, and Holidays showed just how badly Marillion wanted to have hit singles (maybe, just maybe, Fish was right in that whole blowup that led to his leaving!)

Some of this may be revisionist now, but the band attribute the desire for hits to the record label, and maybe to some extent to H who hadn't really experienced commercial success before. Christopher Neil was pretty specifically instructed by the record company to come up with a hit track, and he definitely guided them that way. But I think he also was aware that they weren't a pop band and aside from the songs that were kind of earmarked as "hits," the band more or less did their thing. Ironically, the one song that was mostly H's was The Party, and that's one of the proggier things on the album (I always thought it could have been a part of Brave).

I think the finished product is really pretty much half and half pop and prog. You have the 4 obvious commercial tunes in Cover My Eyes, No One Can, Dry Land, and Waiting to Happen, and then the 4 more traditional Marillion type tunes in Splintering Heart, The Party, Holidays in Eden, and This Town trilogy. And then from my view, I think they knocked 3 of those more commercial tunes out of the park, with No One Can being the only one that felt like a step too far in the pop direction. Dry Land and Waiting to Happen in particular are really lovely songs, and Cover My Eyes has always been one of my favorites from the album.

Stadler

#1745
Of the "hits", only Waiting To Happen hits the mark for me.  "Cover My Eyes" is just screechy to me and while I LOVE Hogarth's voice usually, that is one of my least favorite of his vocals. That "Pay-ay-ay-ay-ain... Heh, heh, eaven!" melody is as awkward as me talking to a supermodel.

I don't mind hits.  I don't mind a band wanting to have success.  I get that.  I just think that you have to have some thread to the core of the band.  "Kayleigh" and "Sugar Mice" were hits but they were also integral to the Fish vision of the band.   "Neverland" is, if not a hit, then at least a song that had broader resonance and it was true to the spirit of what Marbles was about.  I think Holidays was SUCH a departure, with no real walk-up, that it really missed the mark.

I too have heard that about Christopher Neil (it was in the booklet on the '98 remasters, if memory serves; if it wasn't there, then it was in the doc with the "Ipanema" show). 

I celebrate Marillion for not putting out the same album over and over.  But I think there's a spirit, a core of the band that isn't what it was for the first five years.  They were a "prog" band in every sense of the word; see the "Genesis" complaints (even though I always thought it was more Floyd than Genesis).  Mark Kelly isn't a prog keyboardist anymore; in a real sense, he's a DJ, triggering sounds and what not.  Look at the recent documentaries showing their prep for tours. His entire gig is really setting up sounds and triggers and samples.  I think Holidays was the first real glimpse or insight into that.

HOF

#1746
Quote from: Stadler on September 19, 2022, 06:42:14 AM
I celebrate Marillion for not putting out the same album over and over.  But I think there's a spirit, a core of the band that isn't what it was for the first five years.  They were a "prog" band in every sense of the word; see the "Genesis" complaints (even though I always thought it was more Floyd than Genesis).  Mark Kelly isn't a prog keyboardist anymore; in a real sense, he's a DJ, triggering sounds and what not.  Look at the recent documentaries showing their prep for tours. His entire gig is really setting up sounds and triggers and samples.  I think Holidays was the first real glimpse or insight into that.

I think the bigger shift happened with This Strange Engine, where they really seemed to start digging around for a new identity. But I can see what you mean with the beginnings being laid here. One of the guys mentions in the documentary that the lessons learned from HiE helped them make Afraid of Sunlight, which I thought was a little interesting. That is in many ways a less proggy album, but not exactly poppy either.  It's also one that was heavily influenced and steered by the producer for whatever it's worth.

The funny thing about Mark Kelly, every now and then he tries to slip in some more proggy keyboard bits, and I feel like it doesn't go over well with either the fans or the band (see Interior Lulu). I think he may actually be the biggest prog guy in the band at this point (maybe Pete too). Have you heard his Marathon album? It's much more traditional neo-prog. But he is very much into the programming side of things as well. There is sort of a running gag in the band about his live performances as well (that he sort of mails it in is what I gather).

I'll also say Rothery has had a big role in Marillion's more programmed bits. He came up with the loop that started Splintering Heart, and he also programmed the initial drum loops that were the foundation for much of Anoraknophobia.

Stadler

Quote from: HOF on September 19, 2022, 07:13:53 AM
Quote from: Stadler on September 19, 2022, 06:42:14 AM
I celebrate Marillion for not putting out the same album over and over.  But I think there's a spirit, a core of the band that isn't what it was for the first five years.  They were a "prog" band in every sense of the word; see the "Genesis" complaints (even though I always thought it was more Floyd than Genesis).  Mark Kelly isn't a prog keyboardist anymore; in a real sense, he's a DJ, triggering sounds and what not.  Look at the recent documentaries showing their prep for tours. His entire gig is really setting up sounds and triggers and samples.  I think Holidays was the first real glimpse or insight into that.

I think the bigger shift happened with This Strange Engine, where they really seemed to start digging around for a new identity. But I can see what you mean with the beginnings being laid here. One of the guys mentions in the documentary that the lessons learned from HiE helped them make Afraid of Sunlight, which I thought was a little interesting. That is in many ways a less proggy album, but not exactly poppy either.  It's also one that was heavily influenced and steered by the producer for whatever it's worth.

I can't remember exactly what the time frame was, but I think it was around this time where every interview (I'm being a little facetious, but not much) seemed to include a bit where they tried to show their bona fides by claiming how they liked Massive Attack as much as they liked Genesis and Pink Floyd.  I remember thinking, "okay, I get it. Now get back to making music, willya?"

QuoteThe funny thing about Mark Kelly, every now and then he tries to slip in some more proggy keyboard bits, and I feel like it doesn't go over well with either the fans or the band (see Interior Lulu). I think he may actually be the biggest prog guy in the band at this point (maybe Pete too). Have you heard his Marathon album? It's much more traditional neo-prog. But he is very much into the programming side of things as well. There is sort of a running gag in the band about his live performances as well (that he sort of mails it in is what I gather).

I'll also say Rothery has had a big role in Marillion's more programmed bits. He came up with the loop that started Splintering Heart, and he also programmed the initial drum loops that were the foundation for much of Anoraknophobia.

I've honestly stayed away from almost all the Marillion solo stuff; I don't know why, I've never heard it so I can't complain about it, but I'm a critical listener with Marillion now, and I do watch a lot of the behind the scenes stuff.  I sat through (agonizingly!) about 30 minutes of a doc about Kelly programming his sounds and while I get it on one level - Tony Banks does the same thing - there are also moments with Tony where he's in another world just playing PIANO.  I never get that from Mark Kelly. I could be totally wrong, I've never met him* but I get a different vibe from him, like he wants so badly to be liked and so badly to have his music hit the charts that he's not really invested in any one part of the MUSIC.  Maybe I should change that idea.  I know I had heard good things about The Ghost of Pripyat or whatever it's called (Rothery's solo record), so maybe I should be fairer to Mark as well.  I just know that for me, the epic period of Marillion ended with Afraid Of Sunlight.  I checked out with TSE for years (Estonia is really the only song from TSE I like) and only came back with Marbles, but they then lost me immediately with Somewhere Else, and have never really fully regained my trust.  I do like parts of .com, the remix of Radiation is really good, and I dig parts of Anoraknophobia ("Separated Out" would be a top 15, top 20 song were we to do a countdown). 

You talked about producers; it depends on WHAT producer.  Bob Ezrin HEAVILY influences whatever work he does, but the albums are almost universally excellent, and bring out the best in that artist (Destroyer, Peter Gabriel I, all of Alice Cooper, Get Your Wings (even though he didn't get credit; he introduced the band to Jack Douglas and did attend some of the sessions).  For me, I would pay MONEY to see Marillion work with Dave Meegan again.  The albums he's done with them are usually my favorites, even if the styles are adventurous (like Anoraknophobia). 

HOF

Ghosts of Pripyat is pretty good. Not sure it's anything that would blow you away but it has a certain moodiness and atmosphere to it. I personally like the two The Wishing Tree albums a lot, but your interest level would probably depend on what you think about Hannah Stobart's voice.

Mark Kelly's Marathon was interesting to me, but I can't say it's my favorite thing ever. There is one really good track (Puppets) that features some nice Steve Rothery solos though, which is pretty much worth the price of admission

Lowdz

Just reporting in to say I saw the band on the first night of the UK tour last night. Excellent show. H was in great voice.

Earlier in the day I also went to a gig by a Fish era tribute band, called Cillirion, who were very good too.