The Zappa Thread

[Nihil-Morari]

I guess I'm somewhat alone on Sheik. I'm not that fond of it. I mean, it's a laugh, has great musicianship and some great solo's, but it never really grabbed me. In my opninion Zappa has done waaay better. Same goes for Joe's Garage. Maybe it's the sound of those album.
I must admit though that listening to the original master of Sheik on vinyl was way better than the Ryko CD.

[Cyclopssss]

Looking back on it I agree that he has done way better, musically. I think it had A LOT to do with the fact that he was indeed very pissed off with Warner Brothers at that stage, and more or less in a 'fuck you' mood. He had a lot of material lying around, which he had no outlet for, at least not in the way he wanted to release it. Lather fell through, and he was positively fuming with rage about that and it would show in releases for years to come. He even performed with a banner on stage stating 'Warner Brothers Sucks'.

It's no surprise he started the Zappa label not long after that. Yes, 'Joe's Garage' was a nice idea, but it wasn't brilliant en volume 2 plods on for far too long.
I'm really surprised he managed to release an album like 'Ship arriving too late to save a drowning witch, which has some brilliant songs on it.

[Orbert]

As with so many things, it can depend a lot on how and when you came to it.  I'd heard One Size Fits All years earlier, before I'd started collecting my own music.  Frank had a minor radio hit with "Dancing Fool" which was pretty funny, and I remembered hearing One Size Fits All, so I picked up Sheik Yerbouti.  Since it was my first, I dove right in.  I was immediately thrown off by the opener, "I Have Been in You" not because of the content, but because of the 50's doo-wop sound.  But it grew on me.  And "Flakes", "Broken Hearts are for Assholes" and "I'm So Cute" are all gold, as far as I'm concerned.  Then things get crazy and experimental, and I like that kind of thing, sometimes.  There's a few iffy tracks in between, but also some killers, and it finishes strong.

Has he done better?  Probably.  Has he done way better, musically?  That depends on your taste and opinion, of course.  Maybe it's sentimental value, maybe it's just because I'm so familiar with it, but I can listen to Sheik Yerbouti over and over, and it's a Top Five for me.

[Cyclopssss]

Alright, maybe not way better.

[Orbert]

Well okay then.

[Nihil-Morari]

I really think that for a man that can write The Bebop Tango, The Black Page, Billy the Mountain, Montana and other instrumental and vocal greatness, most of Sheik is underwhelming. Like I said, the vinyl made it a bit better, and Hammersmith Odeon helped, but Broken Hearts -> I'm so Cute -> Jones Crusher, is really way below his best.
On the other hand, there are a lot of good moments, never really the 'big grin'-moments that I get on a lot of other Zappa releases.

It could well be that I started Zappa with Roxy and New York, and explored the Freak Out years after that.

[jammindude]

"Whizzing and pasting and pooting through the daaaaayyyy...."

(sometimes I just get that line stuck in my head for days...)

[Ultimetalhead]

My introduction to Zappa was fucking weird. I listened to Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch first because of Valley Girl, and loved the whole album. I didn't check out any of his other stuff until much later though. I eventually got Freak Out!, We're Only In it For the Money, and Roxy. Roxy just confused me since I hadn't heard any of his jazzier material yet. I loved Freak Out! and WOIIFTM though. After I got into Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation, I appreciated Roxy a lot more.

I still think Sheik is pretty overrated, and I also feel the same way about Hot Rats. *runs away*

[Nihil-Morari]

I agree with Hot Rats.
Well different strokes... right?

I can't get enough of Fillmore, Just Another Band, and Absolutely Free, but some folks don't like that stuff that much.

[Ultimetalhead]

I agree with Hot Rats.
Well different strokes... right?

I can't get enough of Fillmore, Just Another Band, and Absolutely Free, but some folks don't like that stuff that much.

Absolutely Free took a long time to click for me, but now it's easily one of my favorites. I'd say WOIIFTM just barely edges it out for my favorite from that early period though. Brown Shoes Don't Make It is utterly brilliant.

In related news, I'm listening to Weasels Ripped My Flesh for the first time right now.

[Orbert]

Weasels Ripped My Flesh is pretty good.  When I originally built my collection years ago, I had to pick and choose, since I had limited funds, so Weasels was one that I skipped.  Years later, a friend of mine had it, and it was one of his favorites, so we ended up listening to it a lot.  It was so cool hearing "new" Zappa/Mothers from that period, stuff I didn't know inside out like the others but just as good.

I always envy people being exposed to stuff for the first time.

[Ultimetalhead]

It's pretty nerdy and slightly pathetic, but a lot of my life's motivation is based on the sole fact that I haven't heard everything that Zappa has released. I'm taking it very slow so as to not overload myself, and it's kind of become one of my life's goals to become reasonably familiar with as much of his material as humanly possible. I'm constantly in awe at the amount of albums he's put out, and one of my favorite things about how he releases music is that he'll do live albums of material that isn't on any of the studio albums. It keeps the live albums fresh and unique since you can't get a lot of those songs anywhere else. It took some getting used to though, because it kind of bummed me out at first that there wasn't a studio version of Cheepnis. Then I realized that Zappa's bands were always so ridiculously talented that live versions were almost always just as polished as a studio recording would have been.

[Cyclopssss]

Burnt weenie sandwich....now THAT ending!! 

[Nihil-Morari]

I had to take a look in my collection to find out that I do own Weasels, don't own Burnt Weeny though.
Both are quite the same for me, great ways of seeing how Zappa went from phase one (which is a high school diploma stuffed with a gym sock) to phase two (which is a college degree stuffed with absolutely nothing at all) (well actually from mothers to solo)
If I remember correctly, both are left overs from early mothers, tours etc.

[Ultimetalhead]

It is amazing how radically varied his music is. Going from Freak Out! to Roxy is practically two different worlds, and they're not even a decade apart.

[Nihil-Morari]

It is amazing how radically varied his music is. Going from Freak Out! to Roxy is practically two different worlds, and they're not even a decade apart.

And then glue in Lumpy Gravy and the 200 Motels movie, and you've got an image of his madness. In 10 years. You think DT has changed since Six Degrees?

[Orbert]

That's not really a valid comparison, though.  DT is a band, and a brand.  They've put a lot into establish their sound and their fanbase, and can't just decide to change things radically.  Well, they could, but at the risk of rocking the boat.

Frank has always done exactly what he's wanted to do, artistically, and he has many sides to his art and to his personality.  He made rock music because he could, and used the money to fund his increasingly more ambitious musical projects.

[Nihil-Morari]

Yeah I know.

[Orbert]

Well okay then.

[DebraKadabra]

I can't get enough of Fillmore, Just Another Band, and Absolutely Free, but some folks don't like that stuff that much.

It took a little time for Absolutely Free to click, but it clicked HARD once it did.  Weasels took a bit longer, but I really dig that album too.

Both are quite the same for me, great ways of seeing how Zappa went from phase one (which is a high school diploma stuffed with a gym sock) to phase two (which is a college degree stuffed with absolutely nothing at all)

 

[Nihil-Morari]

 

[Orbert]

You get nothing with your college degree.  I'm sorry, I forgot.

[Ultimetalhead]

DUMMY UP

[Orbert]

I heard it again. Somebody said "Dummy up!"

[Ultimetalhead]

Let me tell you something. Do you like monster movies? I LOVE monster movies.

[darkshade]

Waitaminute!

[darkshade]

Listening to Cucamonga for the first time ever. Interesting listen for sure, but I think it's enjoyable.

[PuffyPat]

A really cool look at the gear that Dweezil is using.

[DebraKadabra]

You get nothing with your college degree.  I'm sorry, I forgot.

"Well, if you get nothing... that's what I want!"
"A true Zen saying, 'Nothing is what I want.'"

Let me tell you something. Do you like monster movies? I LOVE monster movies.

And there's always a girl who falls down and twists her ankle.  Hey, of course there is!

 

Just typing that out cracks me up.

[Orbert]

The weaker sex and everything, twisting her ankle on behalf of the little ice cream cone.

[bout to crash]

[Nihil-Morari]

I've been on a total Zappa high the last few days. I've tracked down some pretty nice bootlegs (A Snail in my Nose and Paralipolemi...) two good sounding early Flo & Eddie boots. Then I saw this on Zappa's facebook this morning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coG2EakB97g
 

[Ultimetalhead]

I'm constantly amazed by how Zappa managed to get so many incredible musicians together into a huge band and not have it collapse over conflicting egos. That video was really fun to watch even though I'm not all that familiar with the song. The stage presence is just great.

[Cyclopssss]

I'm constantly amazed by how Zappa managed to get so many incredible musicians together into a huge band and not have it collapse over conflicting egos. That video was really fun to watch even though I'm not all that familiar with the song. The stage presence is just great.

Well, then you've obviously not read about the '88 band and how it 'imploded' midtour due to jealousy, infighting and just plain inabillity to accept authority (any other than Frank's). You should look it up, it's pretty funny (and stupid). 

[Orbert]

Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of, too.  The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life, which imploded, or "self-destructed" before it could reach most of the cities it had booked.

Also, Frank was a very, very demanding band leader.  His musical knowledge, skill, and virtuosity were well known, but he tended to demand the same from his band.  There are some, but very few, who can play at that level, and fewer still who also had the personality to make it work.  That's why some guys played with him for years, and others lasted maybe one tour or one album.