Author Topic: The Zappa Thread  (Read 80721 times)

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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #245 on: December 15, 2011, 02:28:38 PM »
Yes. You got to. If you can stand Vai's wanky side, you'll enjoy it.

Man it makes me smile even thinking of it.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #246 on: December 15, 2011, 02:52:12 PM »
My favorite version of Zomby Woof is on Best band You Never Heard In Your Life. That version is hot fire.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #247 on: December 15, 2011, 04:00:03 PM »
Need some help guys.

    I have just recently got into Frank Zappa, maybe about 4 months ago and at this point, the only album I have is Hot Rats. I

absolutely love Hot Rats and I need some advice on where to go next. Any suggestions?

Thanks 

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #248 on: December 15, 2011, 04:51:02 PM »
Need some help guys.

    I have just recently got into Frank Zappa, maybe about 4 months ago and at this point, the only album I have is Hot Rats. I

absolutely love Hot Rats and I need some advice on where to go next. Any suggestions?

Thanks 

The Grand Wazoo

if you want to check out similar albums but with vocals, check out One Size Fits All, or Roxy & Elsewhere

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #249 on: December 15, 2011, 04:52:40 PM »
and speaking of The Grand Wazoo, I dont know about you guys, but I prefer this track order (which I think is the original track listing)

For Calvin (& His Next Two Hitchhikers)
The Grand Wazoo
Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
Eat That Question
Blessed Relief

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #250 on: December 16, 2011, 12:42:56 AM »
I'm having trouble with not seeing it as a compilation album. Instead of seeing the three albums it comprises as 'parts of lather' I still see Lather as those three albums combined.

Apart from that it's long, and I've only listened to it totally, a couple of times.


In short: I'm having difficulties with it, but it can definitely be a top 10 Zappa album for me.

I'm having the EXACT same problem. Although as a work in itself, I think it holds up great.

I'm just thinking with all the live tracks: 'that used to be followed by...etc'
I'm in awe of the Waka/Jawaka, Studio Tan tracks though.... totally majestic. Also, all the Sheik yerboutti percussion tracks are a bit tiresome I think.
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #251 on: December 16, 2011, 04:36:36 AM »
and speaking of The Grand Wazoo, I dont know about you guys, but I prefer this track order (which I think is the original track listing)

For Calvin (& His Next Two Hitchhikers)
The Grand Wazoo
Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
Eat That Question
Blessed Relief

Never really thought about that, I'll try it once!
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #252 on: December 16, 2011, 08:18:13 AM »
"I will love the police as they kick the shit out of me."

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #253 on: December 16, 2011, 09:55:08 AM »
"I will love the police as they kick the shit out of me."

That song was on my work-out playlist last year. I laughed out loud on many occasions during that section, I loved the puzzled looks people gave me, especially when they could hear just a tiny bit of the music.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #254 on: December 16, 2011, 10:34:52 AM »
and speaking of The Grand Wazoo, I dont know about you guys, but I prefer this track order (which I think is the original track listing)

For Calvin (& His Next Two Hitchhikers)
The Grand Wazoo
Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
Eat That Question
Blessed Relief

Never really thought about that, I'll try it once!

first time I tried it, it put a whole new perspective on the album. I appreciate it more because of it.

Offline Mosh

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #255 on: December 17, 2011, 03:46:13 PM »
Hey guys, what is "Feeding The Monkeys at Mah Mansion?" I've been searching for info, but none seems to come up.
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #256 on: December 18, 2011, 03:37:16 AM »
His most tasteful Synclavier work ever. Longer more drawn out pieces, not the fast bleepy-bloppy on other synclavier albums.

IMO a must have if you like his synclavier work.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #257 on: December 18, 2011, 07:39:47 AM »
I haven't even heard his synclavier work. I'll have to try it though.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #258 on: December 18, 2011, 01:05:41 PM »
I remember seeing an interview with Frank back when he'd been using a Synclavier for only a little while.  He was very excited about it because it could play stuff he could compose that was physically impossible for humans to play.  He viewed it not just as an instrument for performance, but also an aid to composition.  Physical limitations were no longer an issue.  So I think he went a little nuts at first coming up with (and recording) stuff that really, really pushed the envelope.

I picked up Jazz From Hell shortly after that and remember thinking that it sounded pretty much how I expected it to, given what Frank had said.  Very clever stuff, complex, interesting from both a musical and intellectual position, but not really stuff I was going to listen to repeatedly.

I've heard of "Feeding The Monkeys at Mah Mansion" but had no idea what it was.  I might check it out.

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #259 on: December 19, 2011, 12:09:17 AM »
Yeah you should. If you like the 'idea' of the synclavier, but 'couldn't really approach its statistical density, in its basic form', Monkies is a great album.

That being said, I haven't listened to it more than 2-3 times either. Not yet.
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Offline ColdFireYYZ

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #260 on: December 21, 2011, 03:03:31 PM »
Today would have been his 71st birthday. I wish I could go back in time and experience one of his concerts.

Offline bout to crash

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #261 on: December 21, 2011, 07:52:10 PM »
Yep. I am listening to a shitload of records to celebrate  :D
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #262 on: December 21, 2011, 08:27:43 PM »
I got to see Frank once, on the "Crush All Boxes" tour, ultimately immortalized on the album Tinseltown Rebellion.  It was an amazing show, but dampened by a few factors.  I thought for sure that I'd posted an account/review of the concert here, but I just went through the entire thread and I guess I didn't.  Crap.  Maybe I'll search around for it, because I don't feel like typing it all up again right now.

Offline bout to crash

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #263 on: December 21, 2011, 10:17:58 PM »
Well, either way it better end up here somehow  :police:
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #264 on: December 21, 2011, 10:33:23 PM »
I found it.  Man, time flies when you're having fun.  I posted this on another forum almost six years ago.

----------

The one and only time I got to see Frank was during the "Crush all Boxes" tour, which led to the "Tinseltown Rebellion" live album. He was asking people (well, girls) to "donate" their panties by tossing them onstage. Some asshole threw a whiskey bottle.

With a wave of his hand, Frank stopped the band cold, in the middle of a great jam. He called for the house lights, which revealed some confusion on the main floor, presumably somebody get the crap beaten out of him. He was taken away, and Frank lectured us on proper concert etiquette. I'm being polite - he was pissed, and rightfully so, and his restraint was admirable. The Masonic Theater in Royal Oak, Michigan is a beautiful, amazing venue, and Frank commented on that, and how even in such a place, people will act like idiots. Eventually, he calmed down some, turned and yelled "3! 4!" and the band picked up right where they'd left off. It was like he'd hit the Pause button, then released it.

Anyways, as soon as the final chords of the last song finished echoing, the house lights came up and the message was clear: No encore for you!

Even as I was disappointed, I admired the integrity (?) which led him to conclude that this audience did not get an encore. No amount of applause, cheering, screaming or yelling was going to "earn" us one; it was decided earlier. Ego? Yeah, probably. But somehow I didn't blame Frank. I was pissed at the moron who threw the bottle.

Other impressions: The way the band stopped on a dime was awesome, only surpassed by how they resumed at, as far as I could tell, the exact point where they'd stopped. Stories about Frank's total command of the ensemble abound, but I got to witness it first-hand. I only wish the circumstances leading to it were more positive.

I'm not sure what I expected, but I remember being surprised at how his guitar solos came up. There were (I believe) five times during the show when Frank took a "spotlight solo". Crazy song or jam is proceeding on stage, then the tempo and mood suddenly change, stage lighting switches to blues and reds, and a spotlight comes on. Frank strolls forward into the spotlight and takes his solo. It is amazing, of course. Then the lights, music, and mood return to what was going on before, or maybe move on to something else.

Obviously it was Frank's show and his band, but I generally expect a guitar solo to "grow out of" the song. You know, it's normally played over the same progression as a verse or chorus. For each of these events, however, it was very clear what was happening: The Maestro will now take a solo! It was quite unlike anything I'd ever seen/heard before, and I honestly didn't think much of it. For me, it's not just the solo, it's how it compliments everything else going on in the song. Switching to a different key, time, or tempo specifically for the duration of the solo seemed artificial, and seemed like a massive indulgence of ego (which I guess was the unexpected part). If the band is jamming in 11/8, I want to hear the solo played over the same pattern. What can he come up with? Don't throw in a 4/4 blues solo, then return to the 11/8 riff to finish the song; solo in 11/8!

It made me think of the Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar series. A collection of solos extricated from their host songs. Without the context of the songs themselves, the solos don't do much for me. Great playing, but somehow just hearing the solo doesn't do it for me.

I haven't seen much Zappa on video (The Dub Room Special and some SNL clips), but his solos in those performances are not so blatantly emphasized in anything else I've seen. The way it worked that night was very different.

Another impression: At the time, I only had maybe half a dozen Zappa/Mothers albums. Since Frank's shows tended to draw from all periods, I didn't know a lot of the songs they played. Again, with most bands, that's not a big deal. If you don't know the song, but it's got a good beat and catchy harmonies, no problem. But a lot of Frank's music takes a few (or more) listens to really "click" with me, so there was a lot of unfamiliar stuff and no opportunity for it to sink in, when I guess I was thinking I'd get to hear more of my favorites and maybe even sing along. My buddy and I were most familiar with the Flo & Eddie period and the Roxy & Elsewhere album. The shows we "knew" had a theme, an ongoing patter between tunes, or something. Collecting panties is cool, but reminding us to donate them every couple of songs isn't quite the same as a permeating theme to the show, which was otherwise just a collection of songs.

Don't get me wrong. The show was still great. It's not possible for me to come away from a great performance by talented musicians and not be impressed. But Frank does things his way, regardless of the "norm" for any given situation, and his live performances were clearly no different. I'm glad I got to see him, and I would probably be in a better position to appreciate it now. But that's not going to happen now, so what I'm left with is memories of seeing one of my all-time favorite musicians, and having to rate it an honest 7 or 8, tops, on a scale of 10.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 10:48:03 PM by Orbert »

Offline bout to crash

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #265 on: December 21, 2011, 11:38:42 PM »
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing  :D
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #266 on: December 22, 2011, 03:51:48 AM »
Very cool, and exactly how I would think a Tinseltown-era show would be. To be honest, that album isn't great, he was searching for a 'new style' I guess. When I think of the fact that In New York was only 3 years before that album, I go crazy. How could such a great band go for such a greasy, polished (commercial?!) sound.

It's far from my favourite zappa period that one, but maybe it had to do with him being focussed on in the media, more and more. He became more a man of his political views, his crazy song subjects, and it was less and less about the music. Maybe that pissed him off somehow, and made him have that 'on stage attitude'.
I wasn't even alive back then, so maybe you could confirm that Orbert?
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Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #267 on: December 22, 2011, 04:51:59 AM »
Well, I don't agree to that. Tinseltown Rebellion may not have been the greatest live album he released, but I thought it contained great versions of 'Easy Meat' (however heavilly overdubbed it was), Brown shoes, The young sophisticate, Ain't got no heart and Peaches en regalia.

Hell, I even enjoyed the 'Blue light' and 'Pick me, I'm clean'.... It was the overlong soloing I got tired of, though.
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #268 on: December 22, 2011, 05:05:47 AM »
Well, I agree with it being 'enjoyable', but I really have to think of a live zappa album that I enjoy less.
And yes the soloing, that was Orberts point. If you listen to the guitar solo albums, it is often impossible to hear of wich song they were originally part, possibly because they evolved from a song, into a jam, into the guitar solo that is on those albums. The other possibility is that you just don't hear how they were created. It could very well be in the same way as on tinseltown, just stop the actual track, and start a 4/4 modular jam. (Although there are bootlegs of every era, I can't really recall how it happened on those).

The final possibility is that he just wasn't in good shape, guitar wise on that tour. You can lose creativity of course, especially when you're writing classical scores and playing around with the earliest versions of the synclavier (I think) instead of playing guitar.
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Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #269 on: December 22, 2011, 06:59:54 AM »
I must admit I don't own any of the 'shut up and play your guitar' or 'guitar' albums. I just don't see the point of just throwing some solo's on a record, without the context of the song around it. I think you must be a very adept fan to enjoy those, sonically.
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #270 on: December 22, 2011, 07:21:48 AM »
Hmmmm, well yes and no. I'm intrigued by Zappa's solo style. If you play it to any guitar teacher in the world they'll have loads of comments on style, build-up, scales, rhythmic patterns etc. but there's something about them. I must say that I enjoy the Shut Up albums every once in a while. Not all 3 of them in a row, but since each album is 'only' 35 minutes long, it's doable. Try it once, I'm sure you'll like it. (I'd recommend the first Shut up album, not the guitar ones)
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Offline Ghost

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #271 on: December 22, 2011, 08:31:40 AM »
So I remember listening to some of "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" and not enjoying it. Any recommendations for a newbie?

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #272 on: December 22, 2011, 08:35:01 AM »
So I remember listening to some of "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" and not enjoying it. Any recommendations for a newbie?

Starting out with it isn't a good idea, no, haha. Why don't you try Roxy and Elsewhere, that one is very likeable! Let me know what you think!
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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #273 on: December 22, 2011, 08:50:19 AM »
Sure, Thanks!

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #274 on: December 22, 2011, 09:11:18 AM »
Yeah, it was mostly the soloing thing that was weird.  As I said, solos are usually much more organic, more integrated into the song structure.  At this show, four of five solos were completely separate sections of the music, and to me it was just weird.  I love his solos, but as part of the song, not some separate entity.

And maybe the political bullshit was getting to him at the time.  I'm not sure how that would really manifest itself.  The show featured great music, but I guess I was expecting a more cohesive show rather than just a collection of songs.  That's actually a pretty stupid complaint, now that I look at it.  Most concerts are just a collection of songs, unless they're performing an album in its entirety or something.  But there was no stage patter, nothing like the Flo and Eddie days, or even little bits like on Roxy & Elsewhere, so it was basically a song I don't know followed by another song I don't know, and then a song I recognize but don't really care about ("I Don't Wanna Get Drafted") then another song I don't know.  Then it was over, and the house lights came up almost immediately.  "Go home now. This audience does not get an encore because some asshole ruined it for you. Scream all you want; I'm already halfway to the bus."

Oh yeah. There was a "clothes line" strung across the stage, and as panties were tossed onto the stage, they were collected and hung up.  At the beginning of the show, Frank gave the girls some pointers about how to do this.  If they were wearing a skirt, it was simple, but if they needed to go to the bathroom to remove them, that would be fine.  If they're French cut with just a tiny bit on each side, just rip it at both sides and pull them up through the front or back.

After the tour, the panties were all laundered and made into a quilt.  I know there were some better pictures at some point, because I've seen them, but these are the best I could find.

Front:



Back:



Close-up of front top:



Close-up of front bottom:



With the artist (the woman):


Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #275 on: December 22, 2011, 11:55:44 AM »
That does actually looks pretty cool. As to how one dreams up a concept like that, `a quilt made of panties´ I don´t even dare to wonder... ;D
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Offline MetalManiac666

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #276 on: December 22, 2011, 12:25:14 PM »
it really doesn't get more egotistical does it :lol

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #277 on: December 22, 2011, 09:06:53 PM »
I want one!
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #278 on: December 23, 2011, 04:43:45 AM »
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Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Zappa Thread
« Reply #279 on: December 23, 2011, 04:58:05 AM »
From the ocean comes the notion that the realise lies in rhythm. The rhythm of vision is dancer, and when you dance you´re always on the one. From the looking comes to see, wondrous realise real eyes....