Nightwish...

[cramx3]

Last week I attended the solo show of Floor in Amsterdam, it was very nice, with material from her entire career. It was video recorded so it will have a live release (I recall she said youtube).

To my surprise, the setlist was different than the solo shows prior to covid. They now did a couple of her youtube covers. Setlist: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/floor-jansen/2021/afas-live-amsterdam-netherlands-b8cc912.html.

That's pretty cool, nice to see some Northward songs. 

[Grappler]

I'm enjoying the new album from Annette.  Nothing wrong with getting more symphonic metal from her!  I wouldn't have even known that Magnus Karlsson wrote the songs - they sound more like The Dark Element than Primal Fear (or the Allen/Olson album).

[wolfking]

I loved Aleen/Olzen truthfully.  I think that was one of the freshest things Karlsson has done for a long time.  It actually picked up on a couple of slight things that made his Allen/Lande albums so great.

I really liked what I heard from the singles from this album so looking forward to checking it out.

[jingle.boy]

I just think it's hilarious, that 9 years later, we're still using the Nightwish thread to discuss Olzon's stuff.   

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I haven't been back long enough to fully grasp the tenor of this forum, but it seems pretty common here to have ancillary discussion congregate to the bigger threads rather than smaller ones for each little sub-topic.  And Nightwish was/is one of the biggest bands in metal, so being their voice for a few years gives her a stronger tie than other artists.  I doubt most people not heavily into symphonic metal could name all of the vocalists of Xandria or Visions of Atlantis, for example. 

[cramx3]

I just think it's hilarious, that 9 years later, we're still using the Nightwish thread to discuss Olzon's stuff.   

You could have started one in those 9 years  I just think such a thread wouldn't get as much traction as discussing here does.  Especially when you consider her work in those 9 years has basically sounded like Nightwish.  Just my thoughts.  I like her music enough to be active it her own thread if it existed.  Not sure about others. 

I probably need to check out her latest album now after reading everyone's positive thoughts here though.  I kind of let it slide, but I'll get to it eventually. 

[soupytwist]

Maybe time for a general symphonic metal thread!

[jingle.boy]

I just think it's hilarious, that 9 years later, we're still using the Nightwish thread to discuss Olzon's stuff.   

You could have started one in those 9 years 

I'm not a big enough fan, at all.

[425]

I just think it's hilarious, that 9 years later, we're still using the Nightwish thread to discuss Olzon's stuff.   

You could have started one in those 9 years  I just think such a thread wouldn't get as much traction as discussing here does.  Especially when you consider her work in those 9 years has basically sounded like Nightwish.

Considering that even the threads for the biggest non-Nightwish symphonic metal bands (Epica, Within Temptation) don't get much traffic here, I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to have a separate thread for Anette-solo.

[Skeever]

I decided to go through the Nightwish discography recently.
I've heard a number of their albums (mainly, the first I one I ever bought and the one I loved the most in High School - "Once", as well as Dark Passion Play and a few others), but I've never really gone all out and listened to the whole thing.

First up was "Angels Fall First". I've never heard this, and it's quite a bit edgier than I remember them being (like almost pure Power Metal), but not a great album. There are definitely standout moments, but the lyrics are a little rough in places and the male voices need to be properly contextualized to be appreciated. I do think the album starts pretty strong, but lost me toward the end, as it just kind of felt melodically and rhythmically very one dimensional as it went on, there were few moments on the first or second listen where, in the back half of the album, I found myself perking my ears up much at all.

Anyway, that's just the first album, I know it's not considered one of their best. So, onto "Oceanborn"...

[cramx3]

Yeah, the first album isn't that good IMO, but has some signs of potential that would be uncovered later.  Oceanborn is much better IMO

[Adami]

I really liked their early ballad work. Angels Fall First and Lapland are beautiful songs.

[425]

Those are the two I would pick out, too, Adami. I think the big problems on AFF are Tuomas's voice and the production.

[Adami]

Those are the two I would pick out, too, Adami. I think the big problems on AFF are Tuomas's voice and the production.

Those are definitely at the top of the decently long list. 

[Skeever]

So, Oceanborn. Yeah, this is great.  The main idea of Angels Fall First really feels fully realized here. The folk stuff has been a casualty of the sound fully maturing, but that's OK, because everything else is much more musical. The band really shine - the keyboards are a big standout, and the overall performance feels so much tighter than the last record. Tarja is great - her diction is often quite bad, but it doesn't really matter. And song after song, the album always feels fresh, always goes places that feel new despite staying true to that core power metal type sound. Really love it.

I've heard it on CD before, but this was my first time listening to it more deeply, and I'm glad that I did.

[425]

Oceanborn is wonderful, and yeah, it's a huge step forward. The first of a few towering peaks in their discography. As you observed, it's one of those rare albums that sticks to a pretty consistent sound while having each song sound fresh, new and interesting.

And is Stargazers an astounding opener, or what?

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Tarja is great - her diction is often quite bad, but it doesn't really matter.

This is interesting.  I didn't used to think about this as much, but in more recent years it seems to come up more often.  I'm not sure which aspect of diction you're referring to, but it seems that the longer bands are around, the more they try and internationalize (which often just means Americanize) their pronunciation, and sometimes this just homogenizes them with so many other bands.  I kind of like hearing bits of their own native accents coming in, it makes them more unique.  The occasional song or even album in their own language can also be quite intriguing. 

[Skeever]

I agree Litho. My comment about her diction was maybe a little immature. After all, why should English have to sound a certain way?

Anyway, on to Wishmaster. On two listens, I would say it was good, but felt a lot more homogeneous than Oceanborn. Nothing stuck out for the wrong reasons like on the first album, but nothing really stuck out as brilliant aside from a few short passages. Of course I've only listened twice so I'll try not to judge too harshly. It feels more refined than Oceanborn for sure, you can hear it the band further maturing its sound and style, but something of the edge seems to have been lost.

[425]

I also think Wishmaster is more homogeneous than Oceanborn and definitely the weaker of the two. I know not everyone holds that opinion, though. My opinion on some of the minor songs on Wishmaster (like Come Cover Me and Deep Silent Complete) has improved in recent years, but I still don't think it stands up to its predecessor.

She is My Sin, Dead Boy's Poem and Fantasmic are the top ones here, as far as I'm concerned. And I think Floor really enhances She is My Sin.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

"Crownless", "She Is My Sin", and "Wanderlust" are easily my favorite songs of theirs, and they're all on WM, so that's my favorite.  "Storytime" too I guess, but I prefer the live version with Floor.  She definitely really works well on "She Is My Sin" live as well.  I suppose I like their power metal side more than their symphonic ballad side, which I prefer from Within Temptation or Delain. 

[MoraWintersoul]

The Oslo show is confirmed with Sonata Arctica supporting, am dead and crying

[cramx3]

Nightwish are also performing at Knotfest in Finland.  As someone who just saw the local Knotfest in NJ, that would be awesome to see both Slipknot and Nightwish at the same show (although I know they are vastly different styles of metal)

I'm just happy it seems more likely the May US dates are going to happen and with Beast in Black who I've been dying to see live (and am highly anticipating their new album)

[MirrorMask]

I also think Wishmaster is more homogeneous than Oceanborn and definitely the weaker of the two. I know not everyone holds that opinion, though. My opinion on some of the minor songs on Wishmaster (like Come Cover Me and Deep Silent Complete) has improved in recent years, but I still don't think it stands up to its predecessor.

Hey, those songs are awesome!

I love Wishmaster. It's a perfect album? hell no, but it's full of a youthful exuberance that showed a young band having fun and forging their way. Lovely record full of great songs.

[425]

I agree that they're awesome! I call them the "minor" songs not as an evaluation of their quality, but as a measure of how much attention they get. The "major" ones on the album, in my opinion, would be the title track, Dead Boy's Poem, She is My Sin, The Kinslayer, and maybe Fantasmic.

[Ben_Jamin]

Floor posted this statement on Facebook...

Another show we cannot play. My spot empty once again.

It is harder and harder to bounce back and accept the situation. Harder to trust our governments who set out expectations and make promises no one can keep. That word group immunity disappeared from the lips of the ones leading us through this mess. It’s not a percentage of people that needs to become immune. We all need to be in order to get the situation under control. But what do I know? As a singer? I am, as the vast majority of you reading this, not educated to know what to do. We are all depending on the knowledge of others.

It’s also easy to blame others for things going wrong! And I try really hard to keep my faith in those who work around the clock to fight this pandemic. But in all honesty, that gets harder and harder too.

Every country makes their own truth and for us musicians and all who work with us it’s an impossible and ever changing puzzle we make daily in order to understand what we can and can’t do.

The cancellation of more shows took the air from my lungs and drained me from my energy. And I can’t say I recovered because I don’t know when things really go better again! I feel sad for myself. And I take time to be that….
But my problems are still luxury problems next to the ones the hospitals fase daily. Next to those of people who where in desperate need of a surgery, a treatment or a test of some sort. The problems people will have because they didn’t go to the doctor in time. The undetected cancers, the growing physical and mental problems we haven’t seen yet.

Today I won’t sing with Nightwish in a sold out Ziggo Dome in Amsterdam. Not tomorrow either. By far the most shows of our European tour moved to next year again.

We’re in this together! If we all do our bit we can go back to living! Stay healthy and sane and take good care of yourself and each other ❤️

[cramx3]

They should have just pushed to do a full US tour and leave Europe for later in 2022.  I just saw Opeth at a packed venue in New York City.  I'm sure they didn't expect the US to be the country most easy to tour in these times though. Sucks, im really excited for the May show in NYC since I'm obsessed with Beast in Black as well.

[The Curious Orange]

Tarja is great - her diction is often quite bad, but it doesn't really matter.

This is interesting.  I didn't used to think about this as much, but in more recent years it seems to come up more often.  I'm not sure which aspect of diction you're referring to, but it seems that the longer bands are around, the more they try and internationalize (which often just means Americanize) their pronunciation, and sometimes this just homogenizes them with so many other bands.  I kind of like hearing bits of their own native accents coming in, it makes them more unique.  The occasional song or even album in their own language can also be quite intriguing.

Anette actually annoys me more - her pronunciation of "relics" as "reee-lics" on Turn Loose the Mermaids or "caress" as "cay-ress" on Amaranthe bugs me every time.

[The Curious Orange]

Nightwish have postponed more European dates to next year, including Birmingham and Dublin, with Cardiff seemingly cancelled. Wembley is still on the schedule for now, but I would expect it to be postponed shortly 

[Evermind]

They (understandably) postponed their Moscow show, which was originally scheduled for May 2020, twice. It was finally supposed to happen this September, and it got postponed again, except now there's no date announced at all. It's just postponed without a date. Since it's officially "postponed", not cancelled, there's no opportunity to get a refund for the tickets (that's how it works in Russia right now during Covid). Now, this doesn't affect me much—I'll still go see them when they play—but I know people are suing the agency at this point.

[cramx3]

They (understandably) postponed their Moscow show, which was originally scheduled for May 2020, twice. It was finally supposed to happen this September, and it got postponed again, except now there's no date announced at all. It's just postponed without a date. Since it's officially "postponed", not cancelled, there's no opportunity to get a refund for the tickets (that's how it works in Russia right now during Covid). Now, this doesn't affect me much—I'll still go see them when they play—but I know people are suing the agency at this point.

I *think* the rule with the US ticketmaster/livenation is that if a new date isn't announced within 60 days, you can get a refund.  That sucks if it's ongoing without that option.

[Evermind]

They (understandably) postponed their Moscow show, which was originally scheduled for May 2020, twice. It was finally supposed to happen this September, and it got postponed again, except now there's no date announced at all. It's just postponed without a date. Since it's officially "postponed", not cancelled, there's no opportunity to get a refund for the tickets (that's how it works in Russia right now during Covid). Now, this doesn't affect me much—I'll still go see them when they play—but I know people are suing the agency at this point.

I *think* the rule with the US ticketmaster/livenation is that if a new date isn't announced within 60 days, you can get a refund.  That sucks if it's ongoing without that option.

I *think* it's half a year here (haven't researched it), but then again, how many times can you postpone even with the new dates? It's been 18 months now and I don't think the gig is happening at least until spring. Marko left the band since I (and I assume many people) bought their tickets. The situation sucks for everyone, but after 18 months and counting I think people should be able to get the refund.

[cramx3]

Oh definitely they should be able to. That's ubsurd and unfair to hold onto everyone's money. And they are likely earning interest on that cash too.

[jingle.boy]

Oh definitely they should be able to. That's ubsurd and unfair to hold onto everyone's money. And they are likely earning interest on that cash too.

I sincerely doubt it's the band that has the money.  Wouldn't it be the promoter?  And yeah, they're all (for the most part) sleazy af.

[Evermind]

Oh definitely they should be able to. That's ubsurd and unfair to hold onto everyone's money. And they are likely earning interest on that cash too.

I sincerely doubt it's the band that has the money.  Wouldn't it be the promoter?  And yeah, they're all (for the most part) sleazy af.

Yeah, as I said, the complaints are about the promoting agency, not the band.

Maiden cancelled their 2020 summer gig and it took like 5 months for me to get my money back (and the promoter kept the service fee ) but at least there was that opportunity. They also announced a new Maiden gig in 2022 but yeah, I'm not buying any more tickets that much in advance.

[jingle.boy]

Oh definitely they should be able to. That's ubsurd and unfair to hold onto everyone's money. And they are likely earning interest on that cash too.

I sincerely doubt it's the band that has the money.  Wouldn't it be the promoter?  And yeah, they're all (for the most part) sleazy af.

Yeah, as I said, the complaints are about the promoting agency, not the band.

Maiden cancelled their 2020 summer gig and it took like 5 months for me to get my money back (and the promoter kept the service fee ) but at least there was that opportunity. They also announced a new Maiden gig in 2022 but yeah, I'm not buying any more tickets that much in advance.

my bad then.  When you referenced "they" I thought you meant the band.