Nightwish...

[cramx3]

Watching yesterday's show now, shocked they went right into Planet Hell and wow, Floor just nailed it solo on the vocals. I kind of like how they just dug right into it. Sound, to me, so far is fantastic. Has a "live" sound to it and doesn't sound just like the album. Visuals are great! I'll try to watch tonight's show live.

[Adami]

Watching yesterday's show now, shocked they went right into Planet Hell and wow, Floor just nailed it solo on the vocals. I kind of like how they just dug right into it. Sound, to me, so far is fantastic. Has a "live" sound to it and doesn't sound just like the album. Visuals are great! I'll try to watch tonight's show live.

Floor was so good on Planet Hell that it was until the "Welcome down to my planet...hellllll" part that I realized it was originally Marco singing much of the song.

[cramx3]

Yeah, she did a great job on that one... but Troy on I Want My Tears Back just didn't have the same feel to it.

Also, hoping tonight they do the norm version, not acoustic, of How's the Heart. My favorite from the new album so I'd love to see the normal performance of it, especially since the Troy and Floor acoustic version was already out there. (Not that it's a bad rendition)

[Adami]

Yeah, she did a great job on that one... but Troy on I Want My Tears Back just didn't have the same feel to it.

Also, hoping tonight they do the norm version, not acoustic, of How's the Heart. My favorite from the new album so I'd love to see the normal performance of it, especially since the Troy and Floor acoustic version was already out there. (Not that it's a bad rendition)

Agree 100%. Though overall, aside from IWMTB, I thought Troy did a great job.

I hope tonight is a pretty different setlist. If it's 2 songs different, that just feels weak. I don't need Ghost Love Score or Greatest Show on Earth anymore or a decent amount of those songs. Not sure how different it'll be, but I'm hoping it's considerable, given how unique the shows are anyway.

[Ben_Jamin]

Can I still buy tickets and watch later before the time is up?

I really want to hear Planet Hell. And even more so now that Floor is singing it now as well. It's one song I've been hoping they play live with Floor.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Can I still buy tickets and watch later before the time is up?

I really want to hear Planet Hell. And even more so now that Floor is singing it now as well. It's one song I've been hoping they play live with Floor.

I just checked, it doesn't look like it. 

[425]

Can I still buy tickets and watch later before the time is up?

I really want to hear Planet Hell. And even more so now that Floor is singing it now as well. It's one song I've been hoping they play live with Floor.

I would have done this if I could have, but it's not possible. They might play it again tonight depending on how different the setlist is.

I hope tonight is a pretty different setlist. If it's 2 songs different, that just feels weak. I don't need Ghost Love Score or Greatest Show on Earth anymore or a decent amount of those songs. Not sure how different it'll be, but I'm hoping it's considerable, given how unique the shows are anyway.

I would be willing to bet a pretty substantial amount of money that they play Ghost Love Score tonight. I think that's pretty much in the Nightwish setlist forever—or at least as long as Floor is in the band. At least it's their best song, unlike a lot of other bands' live staples.

[Grappler]

I've seen a bunch of clips on YouTube.  Looks like a cool, unique show!

Just read that they're playing at 3am their local time so tonight's show can be prime time here in the US.  That is crazy!

[cramx3]

I've seen a bunch of clips on YouTube.  Looks like a cool, unique show!

Just read that they're playing at 3am their local time so tonight's show can be prime time here in the US.  That is crazy!

Yeah, that's pretty crazy to do that at 3am.  Also, according to Nightwish's twitter account, they are aggressively going after anyone who uploads to youtube even if its reaction videos.

[Adami]

I've seen a bunch of clips on YouTube.  Looks like a cool, unique show!

Just read that they're playing at 3am their local time so tonight's show can be prime time here in the US.  That is crazy!

Yeah, that's pretty crazy to do that at 3am.  Also, according to Nightwish's twitter account, they are aggressively going after anyone who uploads to youtube even if its reaction videos.

Oh yea. The whole thing is already on YouTube. It’s crazy how quick it happens.

[cramx3]

I've seen a bunch of clips on YouTube.  Looks like a cool, unique show!

Just read that they're playing at 3am their local time so tonight's show can be prime time here in the US.  That is crazy!

Yeah, that's pretty crazy to do that at 3am.  Also, according to Nightwish's twitter account, they are aggressively going after anyone who uploads to youtube even if its reaction videos.

Oh yea. The whole thing is already on YouTube. It’s crazy how quick it happens.

Not surprising, there's likely many people not wanting to pay but want to watch so people will eagerly try to get those views. I say this as someone who records lots of live music, but I dont see a livestream as the same thing at all.

[Adami]

I admit I watched GSL before I was able to see the stream but I feel okay since I bought both nights anyway.

[Ben_Jamin]

I wish I could've bought tickets. Hopefully they'll decide to release a Blu-Ray or something later on down the road.

[cramx3]

So far only one song different but we are now getting what I wanted, Hows the Heart abum version 

[cramx3]

Ever Dream... one of my favorite NW songs... is missing that Marco oomph in the chorus.  His backing vocals were a huge reason I loved the song (DREAMMMM OFF MEEE).  Glad I saw this live with Marco.  Not to say the performance is bad or anything, Floor kills it but it's a very specific part of a very favorite song that just can't be replicated

[cramx3]

Encore mode,

unless there's a surprise, the setlist changes were Alpenglow/Dark Chest of Wonders/Ever Dream/Pan/Sleeping Sun/Hows the heart (album version) vs Tribal/She is My Sin/Seven Days to the Wolves/Bless The Child/Shoemaker/Hows the Heart (acoustic)

honestly, kind of seems like how their tours are, a base set with rotating songs in between the start and ending. Pan was awesome, but really no deep cuts other than the new songs.  Planet Hell might have been the most rare song and it was performed as the second song both performances.  Maybe that's how they will open future live shows, Floor really did nail it without Marco and I guess Planet Hell kind of makes sense in the pandemic world we live in.

[425]

I thought that was really good. I'm glad I sprang for the second show and wish I'd gone for both. Hopefully this will see the light of day as a Blu-Ray release or something. It seems like they put a lot of work and money into the visual presentation, and while the CGI wasn't Hollywood-quality, it generally looked quite nice and definitely not low-rent. The aesthetic was very Nightwish—very Tuomas, really. So hopefully they didn't put in all that investment for a one-off that they intend to just stick in a drawer, and these shows see a wider release.

I was really skeptical of the idea of not replacing Marco's voice. I was worried it would require them to severely limit future setlists. While I still think it would be a good idea to at least bring along a guest singer on tour (kind of like a gender-swapped version of what Kamelot does), I'm now sold on them being able to do a standard setlist with the lineup they have now.

Troy put in a really valiant effort to cover some of Marco's parts. I noticed this time that he's really wearing a lot of hats. He plays all of his wind instruments, plus he's a second guitarist, and now he's moving from doing maybe 5% of the vocal parts to doing a solid 15%, depending on the setlist. He did miss one cue singing—the return from the instrumental break in I Want My Tears Back—but he did a good job. I heard more power from his voice than I've ever heard before.

But as valiant as Troy is, this whole not replacing Marco as a vocalist thing works only because they have just about the current best singer in rock music. In retrospect, I don't know why I doubted that Floor could be two singers in one show—I've heard Ghost Love Floor before, I should know better than to doubt her. The hardest Marco parts work because of her. Planet Hell comes off practically like it was written for her, and The Greatest Show on Earth works better than I thought. Ever Dream and I Want My Tears Back are missing some juice, but not as much as I expected. I Want My Tears Back now has a totally different vibe from the album version, where Anette sings the soft, fragile chorus and Marco comes in with a lot of power—now we begin with Floor's powerful chorus and switch to Troy's more fragile voice.

Cram summed up the setlist changes, but just to put the full set here, night two was:


1. Noise
2. Planet Hell
3. Alpenglow
4. Élan
5. Storytime
6. How's the Heart?
7. Harvest
8. Dark Chest of Wonders
9. I Want My Tears Back
10. Ever Dream
11. Nemo
12. Sleeping Sun
13. Pan
14. Last Ride of the Day
15. Ghost Love Score
16. The Greatest Show on Earth

I think I like this setlist a little better, though I'm sad I missed the first. In particular, I'd like to hear Floor solo 7 Days to the Wolves. And She is My Sin and Bless the Child are absolutely always welcome. But Ever Dream/Dark Chest of Wonders/Sleeping Sun is a nearly unbeatable trio.

The one thing that disappointed me is that they didn't talk at all between songs. I know it's probably awkward doing these shows with no audience (there were times when it didn't seem like Floor quite knew what to do, and it took a while and an Emppu for the band to start moving around and interacting with each other). But I would have liked them to at least introduce the new bassist. If you watched this thing and you didn't know the history of the band, you'd think he'd always been there.

Edit: One other thing I realized: When I first became a fan of the band, the newest album was Imaginaerum, which turns 10 this year. Only two full members of the Imaginaerum lineup are still in the band. Two and a half if you count Troy, who guested on half of the songs on that album. Anette, Marco, Jukka—all gone. Just Tuomas and Emppu remain.

[CrimsonSunrise]

So far only one song different but we are now getting what I wanted, Hows the Heart abum version 

I was thinking of your earlier wish for the album version of How's the Heart when they played it!

Awesome show tonight!  Actually thought yesterdays show was tighter.  Couple thoughts, did Floor mess up on her coming back in after Troy's solo for Tears?  They kept the tribal video in the sequence even though they swapped out Alpenglow for Tribal.  Also like Marc mentioned, Everdream just sounded ...different with  Floor doing Marco's parts. Same with TGSOE, Marco's parts "Enter Ionia" when Floor and Troy did them, equal in the mix it was a lil odd.   I liked that in the end vocal parts of Harvest Floor was really down in the mix while Troy belted it out.  I REALLY liked Pan live!  It had a lot of energy and Floors versatile range in the song was great.  During TGSOE I loved the interaction with Troy and Floor during the animal grunts.

I'm really curious if they are using these 2 shows as a trial to see how they should move forward with regards to Marco's vocals.  Combinations were used of Troy, Floor, and both together to cover them.  I'm not sure what the right answer is.  Marco's leaving has definitely left a hole in the mix.  I'm leaning towards them finding,if possible, someone who can handle Marco's parts and play Bass. 

Another thing, and I'm not sure if it's just me, but Floors vocals seemed  a little odd.  It almost came across as up half a step?  They just overall seemed higher?  I dunno...  Overall they were great and she hit all the notes.  At the end of the day it was a fun show!!!  I'm so glad I watched them both.  There's a good chance I will have to sell my ticket for the October show because we will probably be moved to Florida from SoCal by then so these shows might have to tide me over.

[425]

Awesome show tonight!  Actually thought yesterdays show was tighter.  Couple thoughts, did Floor mess up on her coming back in after Troy's solo for Tears?

I think that one is on Troy. I just went back to the album version, and Marco sings that first chorus back alone, and Anette doesn't come in until the second chorus.

Also like Marc mentioned, Everdream just sounded ...different with  Floor doing Marco's parts. Same with TGSOE, Marco's parts "Enter Ionia" when Floor and Troy did them, equal in the mix it was a lil odd.   I liked that in the end vocal parts of Harvest Floor was really down in the mix while Troy belted it out.

I think they generally did a good job of placing Floor and Troy in the appropriate places in the mix at different times. In Harvest and Tears she needs to not overpower him, which she can easily do, so they dial her back. On TGSOE, though, those parts need power, so she needs to just go for it and let Troy add what color he can (which I think he did a solid job of doing, with what sounded a little like a Marco impression).

[Dedalus]

I thought that was really good. I'm glad I sprang for the second show and wish I'd gone for both. Hopefully this will see the light of day as a Blu-Ray release or something. It seems like they put a lot of work and money into the visual presentation, and while the CGI wasn't Hollywood-quality, it generally looked quite nice and definitely not low-rent. The aesthetic was very Nightwish—very Tuomas, really. So hopefully they didn't put in all that investment for a one-off that they intend to just stick in a drawer, and these shows see a wider release.

I was really skeptical of the idea of not replacing Marco's voice. I was worried it would require them to severely limit future setlists. While I still think it would be a good idea to at least bring along a guest singer on tour (kind of like a gender-swapped version of what Kamelot does), I'm now sold on them being able to do a standard setlist with the lineup they have now.

Troy put in a really valiant effort to cover some of Marco's parts. I noticed this time that he's really wearing a lot of hats. He plays all of his wind instruments, plus he's a second guitarist, and now he's moving from doing maybe 5% of the vocal parts to doing a solid 15%, depending on the setlist. He did miss one cue singing—the return from the instrumental break in I Want My Tears Back—but he did a good job. I heard more power from his voice than I've ever heard before.

But as valiant as Troy is, this whole not replacing Marco as a vocalist thing works only because they have just about the current best singer in rock music. In retrospect, I don't know why I doubted that Floor could be two singers in one show—I've heard Ghost Love Floor before, I should know better than to doubt her. The hardest Marco parts work because of her. Planet Hell comes off practically like it was written for her, and The Greatest Show on Earth works better than I thought. Ever Dream and I Want My Tears Back are missing some juice, but not as much as I expected. I Want My Tears Back now has a totally different vibe from the album version, where Anette sings the soft, fragile chorus and Marco comes in with a lot of power—now we begin with Floor's powerful chorus and switch to Troy's more fragile voice.

Cram summed up the setlist changes, but just to put the full set here, night two was:


1. Noise
2. Planet Hell
3. Alpenglow
4. Élan
5. Storytime
6. How's the Heart?
7. Harvest
8. Dark Chest of Wonders
9. I Want My Tears Back
10. Ever Dream
11. Nemo
12. Sleeping Sun
13. Pan
14. Last Ride of the Day
15. Ghost Love Score
16. The Greatest Show on Earth

I think I like this setlist a little better, though I'm sad I missed the first. In particular, I'd like to hear Floor solo 7 Days to the Wolves. And She is My Sin and Bless the Child are absolutely always welcome. But Ever Dream/Dark Chest of Wonders/Sleeping Sun is a nearly unbeatable trio.

The one thing that disappointed me is that they didn't talk at all between songs. I know it's probably awkward doing these shows with no audience (there were times when it didn't seem like Floor quite knew what to do, and it took a while and an Emppu for the band to start moving around and interacting with each other). But I would have liked them to at least introduce the new bassist. If you watched this thing and you didn't know the history of the band, you'd think he'd always been there.

Edit: One other thing I realized: When I first became a fan of the band, the newest album was Imaginaerum, which turns 10 this year. Only two full members of the Imaginaerum lineup are still in the band. Two and a half if you count Troy, who guested on half of the songs on that album. Anette, Marco, Jukka—all gone. Just Tuomas and Emppu remain.

1. Cool review 

2.  to the bold part

3. Ohh! When I first became a fan of the band, the newest album was Wishmaster- 21 years! 
And only Tuomas and Emppu are still in the band. Tarja, Sami, Jukka—all gone. 

[Dedalus]

Marco's leaving has definitely left a hole in the mix.  I'm leaning towards them finding,if possible, someone who can handle Marco's parts and play Bass. 

It is possible. The point is whether Tuomas / Nightwish wants this.
This is the band that replaced Tarja with Anette. So....

[425]

I mentioned it in my longer post, but to put it in snappier form, I think a good middle-ground might be to bring a male singer along on tour only to sing some of Marco's parts on the old songs. Kamelot does something like this where they bring one or two singers as tour guests to sing the female vocal parts and do the growls. The advantage of that is you don't have to add someone new to the creative process if you don't want to, you can switch out who you use from tour to tour based on mutual convenience, and there's no pressure to give them a role in the band or have them perform on every song.

1. Cool review 

2.  to the bold part

3. Ohh! When I first became a fan of the band, the newest album was Wishmaster- 21 years! 
And only Tuomas and Emppu are still in the band. Tarja, Sami, Jukka—all gone. 

Thanks! It's interesting how it's gotten to the point where Tuomas and Emppu are the only constants. Hopefully they both stick around!

[gazinwales]

Jukka can sing back up and he can growl, again whether Toumas wants him to is another matter.

[425]

That's good to know! The other interesting part of the conversation is what exactly Jukka's status in the band is. He's being described as the "session bass player," which I take to mean he is not a full, permanent member of the band. My guess is this is something like Floor's status during the Imaginaerum tour, where she was considered a temporary replacement for a while as she and the band figured out whether the relationship was working before she was promoted to full member. It may be that Tuomas wants Jukka to focus on bass only during this trial period, and if he ends up becoming a full member things may change vis-a-vis singing.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I'm a little bummed.  I went to watch a couple songs from the friday show before it hits the 48hr mark in 3 hours.  When I hit watch the friday show I get Saturdays   Oh well... guess it's youtube.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm a little bummed.  I went to watch a couple songs from the friday show before it hits the 48hr mark in 3 hours.  When I hit watch the friday show I get Saturdays   Oh well... guess it's youtube.

I'm guessing it meant European time. Or whoever time zone they're in.

I got to watch some of it. And it looked great. I thought it did what it was supposed to be. A great background for the band to play behind. I love how it's not too busy either and how the band actually looks like they're playing that place.

I was looking forward to hearing Marco do Tribal, but Floor and Troy did just fine.

Man though, you can hear how those 3 part harmonies on Harvest were missing that Marco sound

[cramx3]

Apparently the first stream had 150k viewers, thats wild.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Apparently the first stream had 150k viewers, thats wild.

That's awesome! 

I'm guessing it meant European time. Or whoever time zone they're in.

I got to watch some of it. And it looked great. I thought it did what it was supposed to be. A great background for the band to play behind. I love how it's not too busy either and how the band actually looks like they're playing that place.

I was looking forward to hearing Marco do Tribal, but Floor and Troy did just fine.

Man though, you can hear how those 3 part harmonies on Harvest were missing that Marco sound

Maybe, but I watched it starting live, and it's only 45 hours later.  Oh well.  I'm sure I will get to see it again

[ErHaO]

Unfortunately my weekend did not allow for me to catch the stream. Will buy the video in a heartbeat if they release it in a different manner. Still have tickets for their Ziggodome (Netherlands) show though, so if all keeps going well, I am seeing them at the end of this year 

And it is great to hear the streams did well.


On a sidenote, I really hope they deal Floor made with Henk still stands, where they do the Nightwish version of Phantom of the Opera in Ziggodome with Nightwish. I saw both of them doing that song at Floor's tour just prior to covid hit and it was awesome. Seeing it in a full Nightwish production would be amazing.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I actually didn't know Toumas was in a Black Metal band back in the day. Apparently some new material is coming. He recruited Kai Hahto to join as session drummer. This sounds interesting to me.

Finnish cult black/epic metallers DARKWOODS MY BETROTHED, who feature in their ranks NIGHTWISH keyboardist Tuomas Holopainen, have inked a worldwide deal with Napalm Records. The band's new album, "Angel Of Carnage Unleashed", will be DARKWOODS MY BETHROTHED's first collection of new songs since the release of "Witch-Hunts", which came out more than two decades ago.

DARKWOODS MY BETROTHED is:

Pasi Kankkunen - vocals, guitar
Jouni Mikkonen - guitar
Teemu Kautonen - bass, backing vocals
Tuomas Holopainen - keyboards
Kai Hahto - drums (session)

[cramx3]

I read about this recently in an interview with Toumas.  I wasnt aware either and I'm not sure I'm interested in black metal personally.  BUt also he mentioned he's just a band member, he doesn't write the music.  So if you like his writing, I'm not sure this will be interesting unless you enjoy the black metal genre.

[Ben_Jamin]

I read about this recently in an interview with Toumas.  I wasnt aware either and I'm not sure I'm interested in black metal personally.  BUt also he mentioned he's just a band member, he doesn't write the music. So if you like his writing, I'm not sure this will be interesting unless you enjoy the black metal genre.

This is hilariously related to that "One Person Band" thread....

[ariich]

BUt also he mentioned he's just a band member, he doesn't write the music.  So if you like his writing, I'm not sure this will be interesting unless you enjoy the black metal genre.

But then Nightwish just posted this on Facebook:

"In August last year, Tuomas rejoined forces with Darkwoods My Betrothed, a black/epic metal band from his teenage years. While he was a session keyboardist on the first three albums 1995-1998, the guys judged a probationary period of 25 years to be sufficient and finally approved his full membership for the upcoming album."

Nice bit of humour to it but does suggest he might be a little more fully involved now.

[cramx3]

BUt also he mentioned he's just a band member, he doesn't write the music.  So if you like his writing, I'm not sure this will be interesting unless you enjoy the black metal genre.

But then Nightwish just posted this on Facebook:

"In August last year, Tuomas rejoined forces with Darkwoods My Betrothed, a black/epic metal band from his teenage years. While he was a session keyboardist on the first three albums 1995-1998, the guys judged a probationary period of 25 years to be sufficient and finally approved his full membership for the upcoming album."

Nice bit of humour to it but does suggest he might be a little more fully involved now.

Not from what I'm reading. This doesn't really mean much other than he's considered a full time member. Here's the interview that I was talking about and his comments.

https://www.loudersound.com/features/nightwish-tuomas-holopainen-interview-livestream-marko-new-album

Darkwoods My Bethrothed must be different to Nightwish for you because you’re not the focal point – it’s not your band. Do you get to take a back seat and let someone else deal with the pressure?

That’s it. I'm just a member of the band. Back in the 90s I was just a session player – I wasn’t in the photographs. I’m a full-time member now, I'm included in the band shots and the arrangement process, but I’m still not doing any songs or lyrics.

[Ben_Jamin]

BUt also he mentioned he's just a band member, he doesn't write the music.  So if you like his writing, I'm not sure this will be interesting unless you enjoy the black metal genre.

But then Nightwish just posted this on Facebook:

"In August last year, Tuomas rejoined forces with Darkwoods My Betrothed, a black/epic metal band from his teenage years. While he was a session keyboardist on the first three albums 1995-1998, the guys judged a probationary period of 25 years to be sufficient and finally approved his full membership for the upcoming album."

Nice bit of humour to it but does suggest he might be a little more fully involved now.

Not from what I'm reading. This doesn't really mean much other than he's considered a full time member. Here's the interview that I was talking about and his comments.

https://www.loudersound.com/features/nightwish-tuomas-holopainen-interview-livestream-marko-new-album

Darkwoods My Bethrothed must be different to Nightwish for you because you’re not the focal point – it’s not your band. Do you get to take a back seat and let someone else deal with the pressure?

That’s it. I'm just a member of the band. Back in the 90s I was just a session player – I wasn’t in the photographs. I’m a full-time member now, I'm included in the band shots and the arrangement process, but I’m still not doing any songs or lyrics.

All he's there to do is play the keys.