Nightwish...

[Dedalus]

Marko is leaving Nightwish



Source: twitter

[Ben_Jamin]

Was just about to post this.

I'm about to go to bed and saw this...

Well, glad I saw them when I did.

[MirrorMask]

Well, fuck. This is very bad news and the end of an era.

Of course Nightwish will survive, but Marko has been there for longer than Annette and Floor combined and his male vocals were a trademark of the band.

Of course any skilled musician can perform his bass, but what about his vocals? will they drop all the songs with duets? will Troy try to scream "dreeeam of meeeeee"?

Sounds like a mid life crisis to me.... and where all that conspiracy stuff and "don't blame Tuomas" things come from? 

So, Alexi Lahilo dies, Jon Schaffer becomes a domestic terrorist, and Marko leaves Nightwish. 2021 doesn't like metal so far.....

[Evermind]

Oof.

I'm glad I caught them on EFMB tour and even got to meet him during Meet and Greet. He signed my EFMB artbook and also the copy of Ayreon's Theory of Everything.

Man, this is rough. I was supposed to see them last year, the concert is scheduled for September now. Of course I'll still go and see them (if the concert will even happen at this point), but it's definitely not going to be the same. Marko was such an integral part of the band.

[gazinwales]

After reading Marko's book last year this is not that surprising at all really.
Good on him for himself first, his family and his metal health before his career.

Not only his bass playing and voice, Marko was a big part of the song arranging and assisting Toumas with the demo's and developing his ideas.

[Mladen]

So, Alexi Lahilo dies, Jon Schaffer becomes a domestic terrorist, and Marko leaves Nightwish. 2021 doesn't like metal so far.....

This hit me for some reason.

[ErHaO]

Damn, the end of an all time great lineup. I love that I was able to see them live in 2015.

I hope he manages to improve his life and that the band will find a suitable replacement. He is not someone that seems easy to replace, at all.

[MirrorMask]

Too early to think about the future, but I think it would be a cool idea if Nightwish would take a cue from Kamelot regarding live singers.

Let's face it, Marco is "irreplaceable", of course no one truly is and Tarja wasn't either, but they lost in a single blow a composer, a bassist and a singer. They would have to hire both a bass player and a singer, or Troy would have to step up even more vocally, with songs with duets either being dropped from the set, or left to Floor alone (depends on the song - Dead to the World is kinda weird with just a woman, let alone The Phantom of the Opera whose success in the dutch show could mean they would have considered it for the future setlists, but for example I Want My Tears Back can survive sang only by Floor).

The reason I mentioned Kamelot is that they have of course a male singer, and the occasional female guest spot on the album. And for each tour, they always rotate between female guest singers, with each tour basically having a different one (save the occasional return here and there).

For me Nightwish could go down this route - leave vacant the "male singer" position in the band, and for each tour bring a guest singer that could just be on stage whenever needed, just like Kamelot do with the femal singer being backstage unless she has a part.

[cramx3]

Wow, devastating news to a big NW fan.

However, a lot of that statement makes no sense to me.  Other than the part saying he struggles with Depression. The middle east and working 9-5...  I don't know, that statement makes me think he's gone a bit insane.  Which is truly sad.  He's got such a distinct voice, I don't know how you replace those vocals, but I guess NW might just not play those songs then, sadly. 

Damn, what a blow to the band.

Conspiracy is the word of the day???  I'm so confused by this statement.

[MirrorMask]

Maybe it was a rushed translation, either by someone working for NW or by himself who isn't, after all, a native speaker.

I believe his points were:

- The music industry basically would like musicians to work non stop exactly like at a 9-5
- The merchandise side of things probably is somehow tied up with labor in those regions
- He leaves the band for his own well being and out of his own decision, so if anyone will claim that it's because there's been a falling out with Tuomas, you'll know it's someone trying to stir shit with a "conspiracy".

After the very public falling out with Tarja and the mess with Annette, he wants to make it clear that no, he's not leaving because of Tuomas, and anyone who will say so is just a shit stirrer.

[Grappler]

I feel bad - that band is just a juggernaut where the musicians have to hang on for dear life.  Jukka dealt with health problems, Marco is depressed.  Hopefully the rest of them are able to stay grounded and Marco is able to feel better about himself and the world.

They said that they'd move on from a lot of the older material after the Decades tour, though they're losing Marco as a great backing vocalist.  So that cuts down on some of the older songs where he has more lead vocal work, and it leaves a handful of more recent songs that would feature him (I Want My Tears Back) and a lot of backing vocal work. 

[ErHaO]

Too early to think about the future, but I think it would be a cool idea if Nightwish would take a cue from Kamelot regarding live singers.

Let's face it, Marco is "irreplaceable", of course no one truly is and Tarja wasn't either, but they lost in a single blow a composer, a bassist and a singer. They would have to hire both a bass player and a singer, or Troy would have to step up even more vocally, with songs with duets either being dropped from the set, or left to Floor alone (depends on the song - Dead to the World is kinda weird with just a woman, let alone The Phantom of the Opera whose success in the dutch show could mean they would have considered it for the future setlists, but for example I Want My Tears Back can survive sang only by Floor).

The reason I mentioned Kamelot is that they have of course a male singer, and the occasional female guest spot on the album. And for each tour, they always rotate between female guest singers, with each tour basically having a different one (save the occasional return here and there).

For me Nightwish could go down this route - leave vacant the "male singer" position in the band, and for each tour bring a guest singer that could just be on stage whenever needed, just like Kamelot do with the femal singer being backstage unless she has a part.

This would be the ideal option in my opinion. Hire a good bass player and work with session male singers. While Floor obviously is fantastic, having those moments of additional vocals add a lot for me. Same with Kamelot, their shows would not be the same without the female parts every now and then. As for songwriting, who knows what will happen. Based on non-Nightwish material, I do think both Floor and Troy can bring some of that to the table.

Wow, devastating news to a big NW fan.

However, a lot of that statement makes no sense to me.  Other than the part saying he struggles with Depression. The middle east and working 9-5...  I don't know, that statement makes me think he's gone a bit insane.  Which is truly sad.  He's got such a distinct voice, I don't know how you replace those vocals, but I guess NW might just not play those songs then, sadly. 

Damn, what a blow to the band.

Conspiracy is the word of the day???  I'm so confused by this statement.

Yeah... it for sure is a bit of a mess of a statement.

[cramx3]

I feel bad - that band is just a juggernaut where the musicians have to hang on for dear life.  Jukka dealt with health problems, Marco is depressed.  Hopefully the rest of them are able to stay grounded and Marco is able to feel better about himself and the world.

Even though he says not to blame Toumas, and I'm not directly here, I do wonder if something internal to the band leads the members to go down a dark path.  Makes me wonder if it has to do with alcohol as well which is a depressant.

[ErHaO]

I feel bad - that band is just a juggernaut where the musicians have to hang on for dear life.  Jukka dealt with health problems, Marco is depressed.  Hopefully the rest of them are able to stay grounded and Marco is able to feel better about himself and the world.

Even though he says not to blame Toumas, and I'm not directly here, I do wonder if something internal to the band leads the members to go down a dark path.  Makes me wonder if it has to do with alcohol as well which is a depressant.

Unfortunately, mental illness really is quite common in general, perhaps even moreso for musicians. The list of musicians I listen to that have had or have depression or mental breakdowns is a long one. A really long one actually.

For example, Floor had a one and a half year burnout prior to joining Nightwish, which she openly talked about in the media. And one of the reasons her first band (After Forever) collapsed is a burn out of that band's main driving force.

[Grappler]

I feel bad - that band is just a juggernaut where the musicians have to hang on for dear life.  Jukka dealt with health problems, Marco is depressed.  Hopefully the rest of them are able to stay grounded and Marco is able to feel better about himself and the world.

Even though he says not to blame Toumas, and I'm not directly here, I do wonder if something internal to the band leads the members to go down a dark path.  Makes me wonder if it has to do with alcohol as well which is a depressant.

I don't think it's Tuomas' fault at all.  I've always felt that it's just a result of the band being SO big.  It's a freight train that doesn't normally stop - new album, world tour, new album, world tour.  Each cycle chews up 2-3 years of their lives.  So he's had 20 years of that, with only one major hiatus when the band took a year off, and even then, he fits in a lot of side project and guest work/tours as well. 

They are big drinkers, so that could contribute to it as well, but it seems like his disillusionment with the industry is the biggest factor.  it's probably hard for a lot of musicians to feel like they have to put in daily work and see little in return due to streaming revenues being what they are. 

[MirrorMask]

That's probably what he meant with saying he is 55 soon and he has "done his time" - basically, he's "too old for this shit". He did what you described for 20 years - album, tour, album, tour, side projects, and the income decreases and the pressure always rises and the music industry is relentless. He had enough.

[cramx3]

I'm not blaming Toumous, just thinking aloud of what maybe came of all this.  This is after pretty much having a year off too from the pandemic. So it's hard to think that this is cause of current touring stress when they aren't even touring nor are they (to my knowledge) working on new music other than maybe prepping for the live stream shows.  A LOT of the world is experiencing depression from being locked up and social distancing as well, just this alone could be taking a toll on him too as I know it's taking a toll on myself and many others that I know here in the states.

Also, let's not Forget that NW was pressured to drop their touring agent in the US because that promoter was a douche, which makes me wonder if the result of that means they have to work with LiveNation who apparently sold a small portion of the company to Saudi Arabia.  I'm just still trying to understand the Middle East part of all this.

I really have no idea if any of this matters or not, like I said, I'm just thinking (typing) aloud and am not saying any of this as facts.

[Ben_Jamin]

Man, after reading that statement again. This is not a good thing for the Music Industry.

Marco, is actually revealing a lot of stuff that happens within the Music Business that we as fans are not privy to know and see. These are the things I have been talking about within the Music Industry, that I feel, Fans do not know anything about and really should know this stuff.

His first paragraph talks about how he Is Burned out and just tired of all the Bullshit within the Music Industry. The Streaming Giants, like Spotify, are demanding Musicians, and Record Companies, to deliver a product, just to save their business ass, while their Supplier's workers get shafted with the wages. Also, he even says this about the artists, and also about Promoters, squeezing all they can even from things the bands use to make money, like an interest of merch percentage, and then give that money to those people in the middle east, I think this has to do with European promoters, and those promoters in the middle east.

I am thinking also, being as big as they are in their hometown, we in the states, do not realize how big and famous some of these musicians actually are. Marco, was big enough to participate in the Masked Singer. That alone, shows a lot, in that Marco, and guarantee Nightwish, have those big name Promoters at their feet. In a way, I would relate them to Metallica here, or the Pop Stars we see on The Masked Singer.

I am sure, Marco has witnessed and heard things, that made it even more easier for him to just say..."Screw this, I am not tolerating this anymore. I'm getting older, 55, in fact, and I had my fun, but Screw You guys...I'm going home."

Again, most of us Fans, do not understand what really goes on behind the scenes of being A Touring and Active Musician in the Music Business. It's why some artists whom are really, really talented, don't make it big, because they know and understand exactly what goes on within that Machine.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Making a good living from music is really tough and it's not like it's been easier the last year obviously and with that comes depression. I guess it could be as simple as that.

[Architeuthis]

 I'm getting older, 55, in fact, and I had my fun, but Screw You guys...I'm going home."

 

 

[Adami]

Well that's a big blow. As much as I didn't see it coming, I can't say I'm too surprised.

As much as I love Nightwish, I imagine that like most bands their size, they are more machine than man. The toll it must take to be locked in to such a tightly controlled life, and apparently to reap very little benefit from it can bring a person down. I get it. I'm guessing his year off didn't so much recharge his batteries as allowed him the freedom to realize what his life was actually like.

I'm grateful to have seen Nightwish's first headlining America show. I'm grateful to have seen them live with Tarja, Anette, and Floor. I hope they find a way to recover and maintain the great live atmosphere they've had in the last few years.

I will definitely miss his voice. I wonder if they will go the route people here have suggested, of finding a strictly bass player and then guests to do vocals or if they will try to find a singing bassist. If so, I've seen people online mention ICS Vortex as a possibility. Whatever they do, I'll be around. And if Marco does another solo album, I'll be there for that too.

I hope it really was on good terms, though it seems to be a decision that the band might not have known about for a long time.

[cramx3]

He mentions things he agreed to do in 2021, does that mean he will still do the live stream shows?  If so, those will be extra special then.  They better play Endlessness if so.

[gazinwales]

Well, fuck. This is very bad news and the end of an era.

Of course Nightwish will survive, but Marko has been there for longer than Annette and Floor combined and his male vocals were a trademark of the band.

Of course any skilled musician can perform his bass, but what about his vocals? will they drop all the songs with duets? will Troy try to scream "dreeeam of meeeeee"?

Sounds like a mid life crisis to me.... and where all that conspiracy stuff and "don't blame Tuomas" things come from? 

So, Alexi Lahilo dies, Jon Schaffer becomes a domestic terrorist, and Marko leaves Nightwish. 2021 doesn't like metal so far.....

I suggest you read his book, it's hardly a mid life crisis.
I think the most obvious candidate to replace Marko, who plays a heavy bass, is a great singer with a unique voice and songwriter is Simen Hestnæs aka ICS Vorex (Arcturus, Borknagar, Dimmu Borgir).

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Simen Hestnæs aka ICS Vorex

My first thought. 

[Grappler]

Vortex would be amazing!   

[CrimsonSunrise]

Just saw the letter.  What a sad day for NW fans.  I'm speechless and very sad....

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I only discovered Nightwish a couple of years ago (maybe not even that). They've quickly become one of my favorite bands. I'm bummed I won't get to see them with Marko, but I wish him the best and applaud him for doing what he wants to do.

[kaos2900]

What a bummer. The only truly irreplaceable person in the band is Thomas so I'm sure Nightwish will continue as long as he wants it to. All good things must end at some point and I hope they chug out a few more albums of awesome material.

[ariich]

Really sad news, but I completely respect his decision if he's not feeling it any more and is burned out by the machine of being in such a big band. He'll be hard to replace for sure. In terms of live performances, now that they have Floor with her incredibly powerful and versatile voice, I've no doubt she could take on many of his parts if they wanted to play older songs where his vocals were prominent.

A bit of an aside, but thile he's clearly not wrong about the music industry in general, as is always the case I find it frustrating when people start directing their ire at streaming services as though anything has changed in that regard. Pink Floyd were writing songs about this in the 70s (like Welcome to the Machine), it's nothing new.

On streaming specifically, Nightwish got 113 million streams on Spotify alone in 2019 - I wouldn't be surprised if it was substantially higher in 2020 considering 1. people streaming from home more due to the pandemic and 2. Nightwish released a new album. But even at that 2019 level it equates to a payout of around $360,000, and again that is just from Spotify streaming. They also make money from other streaming services, album sales, merch sales, and obviously in the normal course of things live performances as well (though not in 2020). And of course, they will continue to make money from streaming services year after year even if they release no more music.

Again this isn't to dismiss his complaints about the music industry (and capitalism in general possibly), it just bugs me when there's an implication that streaming services are the problem and everything was fine before.

[cramx3]

The problem with digging too deep into what he says is that it really comes off (and likely due to translation) as just a mash up of different reasons that don't make too much sense without more details.  The only thing I can take 100% from that statement is that he was depressed and burnt out from the business.  Which of itself is as good as a reason as any to remove yourself from the situation.  I respect that too as you've got to do what's best for yourself and your health. 

[Adami]

I think the most obvious choice is to have Tuomas take back over all male vocals.

[MirrorMask]

I think the most obvious choice is to have Tuomas take back over all male vocals.

Out with The Islander, Once Upon a Troubadour back in the set!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x183wf_duiU

[fadetoblackdude7]

It really is a sad day for NW fans. Marco will be hard to replace indeed. I mean finding someone to play the bass parts is no problem, but he was an amazing vocalist and songwriter. That won’t be easy.

I’m happy that I got to see them 6 times with him and meet him in the meet and greet.

[Ben_Jamin]

Really sad news, but I completely respect his decision if he's not feeling it any more and is burned out by the machine of being in such a big band. He'll be hard to replace for sure. In terms of live performances, now that they have Floor with her incredibly powerful and versatile voice, I've no doubt she could take on many of his parts if they wanted to play older songs where his vocals were prominent.

A bit of an aside, but thile he's clearly not wrong about the music industry in general, as is always the case I find it frustrating when people start directing their ire at streaming services as though anything has changed in that regard. Pink Floyd were writing songs about this in the 70s (like Welcome to the Machine), it's nothing new.

On streaming specifically, Nightwish got 113 million streams on Spotify alone in 2019 - I wouldn't be surprised if it was substantially higher in 2020 considering 1. people streaming from home more due to the pandemic and 2. Nightwish released a new album. But even at that 2019 level it equates to a payout of around $360,000, and again that is just from Spotify streaming. They also make money from other streaming services, album sales, merch sales, and obviously in the normal course of things live performances as well (though not in 2020). And of course, they will continue to make money from streaming services year after year even if they release no more music.

Again this isn't to dismiss his complaints about the music industry (and capitalism in general possibly), it just bugs me when there's an implication that streaming services are the problem and everything was fine before.

See, that is where Marco explained, These streaming Services take their cuts, the Label gets a cut, then their managers, and then the band. So exactly, how much do the members actually get, and even at that, the members could be getting more than the others, like here it'd be Tuomas whom gets the most percentage of the funds. Remember also, The business side is why Tarja was fired from Nightwish.

There's reasons why those bands are talking smack about streaming services, and why Neal Morse set up his own streaming service with Waterfall.

[ErHaO]

I am also not disregarding his complaints about financials and can understand the sentiment of musicians that they should get a larger cut from the revenue. But in Europe Nightwish fills arena's, the ones where some of the biggest popstars play. Granted, 2020 sucked and the tour is postponed and all, but they sold about 34000 tickets in The Netherlands alone, for a single weekend. And their online numbers are overall great. Point being that the serious financial struggle of so many musicians should not really apply to them.

That said, Marco's last tour was his solo one in early 2020, so perhaps he is also speaking from his experience as a smaller solo artist