Nightwish...

[bosk1]

Not sure whether others have seen Floor's stay-at-home "Storytime" videos, but they are a kinda fun look at her life these last few months.  Here is the first one:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNlc9JEnBjs

In the second one, she mentions that she has the seeds of what could eventually become a solo album.  Hmm....

[Adami]

Yea. She mentioned moving away from metal and doing softer stuff. So that should be cool.

[The Walrus]

Yea. She mentioned moving away from metal and doing softer stuff. So that should be cool.

Huh, I thought she was talking about her solo stuff, not the next Nightwish.

[cramx3]

As long as that doesn't mean she leaves Nightwish, but of course if she wants to do something different then she should because no one should be pigeon holed. 

I actually was listening to Northward the other day for the first time in awhile, and would love to see her work with Jorn again, but that's still rock music so while not as heavy, from her comments, I think she wants something totally different. 

[Adami]

As long as that doesn't mean she leaves Nightwish, but of course if she wants to do something different then she should because no one should be pigeon holed. 

I actually was listening to Northward the other day for the first time in awhile, and would love to see her work with Jorn again, but that's still rock music so while not as heavy, from her comments, I think she wants something totally different.

Yea, she meant outside of nightwish. She has no plans of leaving.

[ErHaO]

She was also planning to record her solo show in Amsterdam but corona got in the way unfortunately. I assume she will pick that up at a later point. And I wouldn't be surprised if that is the band she picked for a potential softer solo album (same band as in the TV show Beste Zangers), she really seemed to enjoy working with them.

Anyways, I really hope we will get a dvd of her solo show, because I genuinely think it was one of the best concerts I have seen in years. Super varied, from pop to opera to musical to rock and metal and her stage banter was good as well.

[cramx3]

They finally just announced the NA "tour" this September is postponed to next October, minus Toronto which is cancelled.  I was kind of hoping, for the sake of the rest of the country, they just nixed those few dates and would announce a full NA.  But I'm glad the NYC show is going to happen regardless, I got my nice seats so I think that show will be a banger if and when it happens because it will be rare to see Nightwish in NA before 2022 at this point.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Yeah, knew the cancellation was coming but still very sad.  Was really looking forward to the Palladium show.  Let's hope 13 month delay will be enough.  If not...we're fucked anyways. 

[cramx3]

I tweeted this yesterday as it was the 8 year anniversary of my first time seeing Nightwish, only sharing it because this clip of Escapist might be the last time they will have ever played that rare song.  Also, my friend totally called it earlier in the night saying they would play it and I was just like "yeah, keep dreaming" 

https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/1306006543226339329

This was before my time of actually trying to get good concert footage and full songs, I wish I captured more of that evening as it was such a cool and now unique experience being that Annette was out of the band not long after this.  Funny timing too as yesterday was supposed to be my 5th time seeing them... ugh FU Covid and 2020. 

[MirrorMask]

Meanwhile the band, or better, the crew of the band, will release an EP of said crew members covering 5 Nightwish songs. They will receive 100% of the profits and the band and the label won't see a dime. It's a cool little idea, and it's nice that the band themselves rather than putting out a random "please buy this shirt so that we get some money" thing, they endorse the effort of their crew and give them some publicity.

Also, to make it "officially official", also the european tour has been postponed, it was a long time coming and I assume they waited until the very last moment before facing the reality. No Nightwish in early December for me then.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Meanwhile the band, or better, the crew of the band, will release an EP of said crew members covering 5 Nightwish songs. They will receive 100% of the profits and the band and the label won't see a dime. It's a cool little idea, and it's nice that the band themselves rather than putting out a random "please buy this shirt so that we get some money" thing, they endorse the effort of their crew and give them some publicity.

Also, to make it "officially official", also the european tour has been postponed, it was a long time coming and I assume they waited until the very last moment before facing the reality. No Nightwish in early December for me then.

Yeah, they waited till the very last to cancel the Los Angeles gigs also  

[ErHaO]

Dutch concerts already got a new date, may next year. I really wonder how the world looks around that time. Concerts being allowed is one thing (actually, we already have concerts again right now, though with low capacity and additional rules), but two sold out shows of 17000 people is a large event, hopefully we will be good around that time.

[cramx3]

I dont have hope for May in the US but maybe over there itll be better.

[ErHaO]

I dont have hope for May in the US but maybe over there itll be better.

My gut feeling is positive for a lot of things, be it in an adapted form (we are already seeing a lot of concepts, such as dinner concerts outdoors or in large halls), but on the overall list large concerts will likely literally be the last thing to return to normal.

[cramx3]

Yea definitely especially indoors. I think outside festivals might be back next summer but maybe not arena or large in door venue concerts by then. At least here in the US

[gazinwales]

Tours of the USA for small/medium bands are almost going to be a thing of the past now, with the huge cost of visa's for touring musicians.
Add to the cost of touring and playing to smallish audiences, it's not going to be economically feasible for many bands.

[jingle.boy]

Tours of the USA for small/medium bands are almost going to be a thing of the past now, with the huge cost of visa's for touring musicians.
Add to the cost of touring and playing to smallish audiences, it's not going to be economically feasible for many bands.

Sadly, I think you’re absolutely right.

[ErHaO]

Tours of the USA for small/medium bands are almost going to be a thing of the past now, with the huge cost of visa's for touring musicians.
Add to the cost of touring and playing to smallish audiences, it's not going to be economically feasible for many bands.

Tours of the USA for small/medium bands are almost going to be a thing of the past now, with the huge cost of visa's for touring musicians.
Add to the cost of touring and playing to smallish audiences, it's not going to be economically feasible for many bands.

Sadly, I think you’re absolutely right.

You don't think this will eventually return to "normal"?

[Anguyen92]

^^ A lot of people think that it won't go back to as normal as it was back in say February or prior to that.  That people will have to prepare for a new normal and try to adapt to that.  This, I will say.  I don't think the big concerts promoters (Live Nation, AEG, etc.) is going to generate the big revenue like they were doing last year again in the next few years and that's going to hurt a lot of oversea bands.

If a band like Nightwish were to play in Hollywood Palladium (around 3,500-4,000 people) in LA.  If the venue is going to be shrinking the concert capacity to maintain social distancing, then it's going to go down to 1,000 people or less for the time being which will really hurt a band like Nightwish's bottom line given how expensive it is to do tours here from their vantage.

[ariich]

I dunno, once there's a combination of vaccine(s) and treatment(s) that bring the Covid death rate down to a comparable level to other infectious diseases, I don't see how any government would be able to justify continuing to demand/enforce social distancing. We never socially distanced or locked down our economies for things like flu and pneumonia and millions of people die of those each year worldwide.

[cramx3]

I have hopes things will go back to normal but probably not until summer 2021 at the earliest it seems but even then, I think a lasting impact will be higher ticket prices to make up for losses and potentially smaller capacities going forward. We will see. Having said that, I just arrived at a drive in concert...

[MirrorMask]

I have hopes things will go back to normal but probably not until summer 2021 at the earliest it seems but even then, I think a lasting impact will be higher ticket prices to make up for losses and potentially smaller capacities going forward. We will see. Having said that, I just arrived at a drive in concert...

Or, bands suck it up and charge less, since the promoter can offer less anyway because of a distanced audience. Which again might be acceptable for bands when they tour in their nation, but not when they have to cross the oceans...

There are bands who are playing concerts here and there, I wonder how they handle this - if they accept to be paid less, or the promoters still pay them in full and then hope for the best.

[cramx3]

I don't know of this world where people lower prices on anything

[gazinwales]

International bands are hardly going to 'suck it up' and play for less in a country that offers them little incentive to tour.
Nightwish are huge in Europe and other parts of the world, why would they play countries that offer small venues, low crowds and not much profit?

[Cool Chris]

I don't know of this world where people lower prices on anything

Happens all the time. When I first started worked at a cruise line, the travel and leisure industry was booming. Then the 2007-2009 recession hit, and we had to lower our prices drastically to get people on board our ships. (Think about the sales they'll have once they get the approval to sail again due to Covid-19). The hotels I worked with lowered their prices >25%.

[Anguyen92]

^^ Yeah, but this is Live Nation and Co. we are talking about.  I imagine those guys are going to lean more towards the mentality of "we lost a year where billions of dollars of revenue could have been made, so we need to jack the ticket prices up when we are able to run concerts again to recoup that loss.  If people are going to be pissed about that, well f*** em.  They are not what we are looking for in buyers."

[Cool Chris]

^^ Yeah, but this is Live Nation and Co. we are talking about.  I imagine those guys are going to lean more towards the mentality of "we lost a year where billions of dollars of revenue could have been made, so we need to jack the ticket prices up when we are able to run concerts again to recoup that loss.  If people are going to be pissed about that, well f*** em.  They are not what we are looking for in buyers."

And the market will respond accordingly. I was just commenting on the notion that prices never get lower on anything.

[MirrorMask]

Of course you're all right, but I was seeing this as a more hypothetical "better than nothing" scenario.

Leaving aside the costs for any european band to go to the USA, let's imagine this:

Band: "Damn, we're all locked down and we can't tour at all"
Promoters: "Damn, we're all locked downa nd we can't book any concerts"
(Lockdown ends)
Band: "We'd like to try and play some concerts again damn"
Promoters: "Yeah, so I might have a venue for you, but it's in the open and we have to have seated people and a limited number, so I have 1/3 of the audience and sorry guys, I will pay you 1/3 less"

Would it be extremely naive to assume that under specific circumstances a band would accept this, maybe for a local gig that does not require travelling expenses, just to have some money going which I assume would still be more than what people would pay for shirts online after a "Hey, we can't tour, if you want, we refurbished our stock" message on social media?

[Ben_Jamin]

Of course you're all right, but I was seeing this as a more hypothetical "better than nothing" scenario.

Leaving aside the costs for any european band to go to the USA, let's imagine this:

Band: "Damn, we're all locked down and we can't tour at all"
Promoters: "Damn, we're all locked downa nd we can't book any concerts"
(Lockdown ends)
Band: "We'd like to try and play some concerts again damn"
Promoters: "Yeah, so I might have a venue for you, but it's in the open and we have to have seated people and a limited number, so I have 1/3 of the audience and sorry guys, I will pay you 1/3 less"

Would it be extremely naive to assume that under specific circumstances a band would accept this, maybe for a local gig that does not require travelling expenses, just to have some money going which I assume would still be more than what people would pay for shirts online after a "Hey, we can't tour, if you want, we refurbished our stock" message on social media?

Well, who pays for them to go across to the states. Bands need to be financially able to afford the weeks of travel into another country, first of all.

Also, production. Would that Venue be able to hold the production the band would like to bring? Most would gladly tour without production, but it diminishes the art they feel is best represented by the production.

Then you get into the actual payments. Is it worth all the hassle of getting a Visa, you have to pay for that too.

There's just too many things involved in Booking Over Seas bands that no one realizes.


I forgot to add....What if a member of the Bands team gets sick?

[Evermind]

Derailing the current discussion a bit, I was voting in the Nightwish the League thing and I realized I forgot the lyrics to Elan. Used to remember them around 2015-2016 when EFMB came out as I loved the song. So naturally I went and listened to the song a few more times, and knowing how it's not quite as popular on DTF as it, in my opinion, should be, I just wanted to praise it a little bit here.

I feel like the message is just so upbeat and positive in a not overbearing way like some other pro-nature and pro-love songs Tuomas penned since then, and the music just suits the message (or vice versa), and Floor vocals here are exquisite with both delicate verses and boisterous choruses. It's a simple song but I can safely say now that five years has passed, it's my favourite from EFMB, and one of my favourite Nightwish songs (definitely Top 10, possibly even higher) overall. Something about it just clicks with me.

I hesitated to post it in the main thread here, but I mean, there is no Nightwish Controversial Opinion thread.

[cramx3]

I wouldn't rate it quite that high, but it is a fantastic song.  I think it grew on me quite a bit over the years too.  Always liked it, but didn't love it.  I've watched it live on their blu-rays many times now and it's such a good song.  I really like the lyrics too.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't really like Amaranth and, to me, Elan is a more lighter Amaranth.

To me, It just wasn't a great song to showcase a brand new album with Floor.

[cramx3]

To me, It just wasn't a great song to showcase a brand new album with Floor.

I think that's the reason why it didn't click so quickly for me and only warmed up over the years.  I totally agree, just like Harvest was not the best single for the latest album, awesome songs, but really kind of not what we were expecting when Floor is in the band and you are debuting your first music with her. 

[MirrorMask]

Out of the bunch, it was the perfect single I'd say. Catchy and easy to remember. And yes, it's one of the best songs on the album. I love to hear it when I'm in my places of the heart (the mountains), hearing it as it celebrates the simple and little beauties of life when I'm in the very center of my favorite mountain little town, it's a great and wholesome experience.

[cramx3]

Out of the bunch, it was the perfect single I'd say. Catchy and easy to remember. And yes, it's one of the best songs on the album. I love to hear it when I'm in my places of the heart (the mountains), hearing it as it celebrates the simple and little beauties of life when I'm in the very center of my favorite mountain little town, it's a great and wholesome experience.

Definitely a good "being in nature" song.  I actually listened to Human II Nature last week while in the wilderness on vacation and their music goes really well with the right setting.  Only reason I didn't listen to EFMB is because I set a rule for myself of one full album from one band each for my listening.  Personally, I love their more naturey style they've been trending towards and a reason why I love the song Harvest so much.