Author Topic: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts  (Read 71565 times)

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Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #665 on: December 28, 2021, 03:23:52 PM »
Holiday break is weirdly stressful...still in limbo on both opportunities.

  • Company A: I still need to interview with one more person, and it's not yet scheduled, but hopefully happens quickly after the break. It's definitely my preference...much bigger company, better salary, one day a week onsite, and the paternity leave is a known quantity that I won't need to negotiate on.  Good vibes and feedback so far, including one of the Therapeutic Area Heads I talked to saying he wanted to bring me in...and the headhunter I'm working with placed 3 of the four folks I've interviewed with
  • Company B: First round was two people, second round was six more people, plus I know two former colleagues there...which means I've talked to almost 20% of the company  :lol I'd be surprised if I didn't get an offer, but I don't know the leave policy, the salary would probably be ~15% lower, and it would be two days a week onsite (though the office would be sexy, it's at Hudson Yards in Manhattan)

I'm hoping I can use Company B to keep a fire lit under Company A.  B is definitely a fallback position, but even that would be better than the toxic snakepit where I am now.

This is all a very weird position to be in.  I was hoping I could be giving notice next week, but I think best case is early the following week.  I'm definitely getting antsy/stressed about how little time I'll have in role at a new place before the baby shows up (first week of April). And I don't see staying where I am as a remotely viable option, the boss has started targeting/scapegoating/isolating me in ways that are setting off a latent mental health issue, so I just need to get the fuck out of there ASAP.
Would you consider just quitting now given that you have a very strong likelihood of being offered one or both of the other jobs?

I'll say the thought has crossed my mind, but I don't think would strategically/practically in my best interest (as much as I'd love to):
-That whole insurance/pregnancy thing
-It might raise eyebrows at the new place that I could start almost immediate without giving a notice period at my current shop
-I feel like it would decrease my leverage at offer negotiation...I'll admit I can't quite articulate how, since I wouldn't be telling them, but it somehow feels "off".  Maybe it would just start screwing with m own head to be facing a ticking clock?
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Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #666 on: December 28, 2021, 07:47:22 PM »
On the whole "acing the interview" thing... I've been chewing on it for a bit, and have had some rather high-stakes interview conversations in the meantime.  Here's maybe a better way to put it:

Be your best self in the interview.  Read up on company background. Creep your interviewers on LinkedIn. Think about reasonably expected behavioral interview questions and your responses.  Think about the questions you want to ask (not just to look smart/interested, but to understand more about the job/culture). Read up on how to approach interviews (I highly recommend Ask A Manager for this).  But be your best self.  Don't try to be perfect, that's not being yourself, and you're going to miss the cues from the interviewer that could tell you whether or not you even want to work there.  Don't try to be what you think the interviewer wants you to be...that's both a recipe for crummy interview performance and for missing those cues about fit. Don't try to prove something, don't be looking for validation.  Just be you, and rock that shit.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #667 on: December 29, 2021, 08:24:02 AM »
I recently took a new job with a very established and well known construction company in St. Louis. I'll spare you all the long detailed version....but the bottom line is my former position was a nightmare. It was a job to where no matter how well I did my job every day was a freaking train wreck and cluster F%ck to where it was just non stop putting out fires. It was mentally exhausting and throw in the travel it required and the fact that the company itself didn't care to fix the logistical issues they themselves created....it was brutal. They cared solely about making money and treated their employees like widgets instead of people. Anyway.....I say all that to set up this....

So I was pretty unhappy at that job but I also wasn't just going to quit as I have responsibilities. I'm looking on LinkedIn one day and I see the company I now work at has a couple Project Manager positions open. I went to their website and applied for three of the open positions. I knew a couple guys that worked for that company as I've been on projects in my career with them...so I shot them a text and told them I had applied and if they could 'do' anything I'd appreciate it.

Within a couple days one of them texted me back and said to expect a call from HR.....which, I got later that day and we scheduled an interview. What was cool is that I had the option to either do it via ZOOM or go in person and I chose in person. I've always had pretty good luck at getting a job if I could just get in front of the folks making the decision.

The interview did not feel like an interview at all. I already had a job so I felt zero 'pressure' to perform or be perfect. There were two interviewees.....the President and VP of the company and we sat there for an hour speaking and it felt like we'd known each other for years. It was the oddest interview ever that spanned many subjects, half of which had nothing to do with the job. When compensation was brought up I felt no need to BS or sell myself short so I threw a number out there and they didn't bat an eye. At the end of the interview they told me they were immediately sending me through to the online portion of the interview. That turned out to be a series of tests that took about 4 hours total.

The following week I received a call from the VP and was offered the position, $5k over the salary I had mentioned.....zero travel.....and all together just a better environment. I've been there since the end of October and it's been a massive relief. It's been great to be a part of a 'team' again where everyone is working on a common goal. My first project out of the gate is a $200 million dollar drone production facility for Boeing. It's been quite the whirlwind but am extremely grateful.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #668 on: December 29, 2021, 09:25:37 AM »
Wow, sounds like a great move all around!

Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #669 on: December 29, 2021, 03:28:52 PM »
That's awesome, sounds like a huge quality of life upgrade!
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #670 on: January 03, 2022, 06:16:42 AM »
Holiday break is weirdly stressful...still in limbo on both opportunities.

  • Company A: I still need to interview with one more person, and it's not yet scheduled, but hopefully happens quickly after the break. It's definitely my preference...much bigger company, better salary, one day a week onsite, and the paternity leave is a known quantity that I won't need to negotiate on.  Good vibes and feedback so far, including one of the Therapeutic Area Heads I talked to saying he wanted to bring me in...and the headhunter I'm working with placed 3 of the four folks I've interviewed with
  • Company B: First round was two people, second round was six more people, plus I know two former colleagues there...which means I've talked to almost 20% of the company  :lol I'd be surprised if I didn't get an offer, but I don't know the leave policy, the salary would probably be ~15% lower, and it would be two days a week onsite (though the office would be sexy, it's at Hudson Yards in Manhattan)

I'm hoping I can use Company B to keep a fire lit under Company A.  B is definitely a fallback position, but even that would be better than the toxic snakepit where I am now.

This is all a very weird position to be in.  I was hoping I could be giving notice next week, but I think best case is early the following week.  I'm definitely getting antsy/stressed about how little time I'll have in role at a new place before the baby shows up (first week of April). And I don't see staying where I am as a remotely viable option, the boss has started targeting/scapegoating/isolating me in ways that are setting off a latent mental health issue, so I just need to get the fuck out of there ASAP.
Would you consider just quitting now given that you have a very strong likelihood of being offered one or both of the other jobs?

I'll say the thought has crossed my mind, but I don't think would strategically/practically in my best interest (as much as I'd love to):
-That whole insurance/pregnancy thing
-It might raise eyebrows at the new place that I could start almost immediate without giving a notice period at my current shop
-I feel like it would decrease my leverage at offer negotiation...I'll admit I can't quite articulate how, since I wouldn't be telling them, but it somehow feels "off".  Maybe it would just start screwing with m own head to be facing a ticking clock?

I may be old school on this point, but I generally think that's a bad idea to count your chickens before they've hatched.  "Man plans, and God laughs."TM Even without COVID, things can (and do!) change, and with COVID, it's a new world. 

It may be me, but I've been in some shitty work situations and there's NOTHING I can't endure for a week, or a month, or whatever it takes to get to a better opportunity.   
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 12:03:23 PM by Stadler »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #671 on: January 03, 2022, 12:01:18 PM »
It may be me, but I've been in some shitty work situations and there's NOTHING I can't endure for a week, or a month, or whatever it takes to get to a better opportunity.

Your first marriage proves that!!  :neverusethis:
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #672 on: January 03, 2022, 12:02:55 PM »
It may be me, but I've been in some shitty work situations and there's NOTHING I can't endure for a week, or a month, or whatever it takes to get to a better opportunity.

Your first marriage proves that!!  :neverusethis:

Lord, don't you know it!  :) :) :)

Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #673 on: January 07, 2022, 07:31:56 PM »
Alright, we are making progress!  Don't want to count any chickens yet, but for my company of choice, I have one final conversation on Monday with someone who would be a key stakeholder.  But the exec recruiting firm I'm working with on this already has things ready to go for comp negotiations, and is even doing reference checks already.  The feedback from the company has been that they are very interested in me joining, and the feeling is mutual.  (and if El Barto is reading this, I would likely be working on next-generation drugs for organ transplant rejection, primarily kidney).

If this all pans out, I think I can tell my current employer to jump up their own ass at the end of this coming week.  And if the comp lands where I think it will, it would be a 1/3 increase over where I am now (and about a 57% increase over where I was 15 months ago), and a bump up to Exec Dir.  It would be a natural continuation of my career trajectory, and I'd finally properly cash in on all that time being underpaid (but getting incredible experience) at Allergan.

Not celebrating anything yet, but I'm feeling ok about things.  And I've been mentally prepping for both my exit interview and the Glassdoor review  :biggrin:
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #674 on: January 07, 2022, 08:07:41 PM »
Fingers crossed that we have some good news to toast to by this time next week.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #675 on: January 13, 2022, 07:46:38 AM »
Ok, so one final conversation got turned into a couple more conversations.  From what the recruiter told me, my would-be boss and big boss are good with me, and it's them that carry the weight.  The rest of the interviews are apparently mostly about me getting a better view of how the org works and what the people are like, so I can make an informed decision.  I have one of those this afternoon, and there may or may not be another (I'm hoping not, as her availability is brutal, and it could add a couple of weeks to the process when I don't have that kind of time due to when the baby will arrive).

Speaking of the baby, that whole situation has really adversely affected interviewing.  We got an upsetting call from a provider right before my interview on Monday, and it definitely put me off my game, I just wasn't myself.  And then I just plain missed an interview yesterday (the same one that got rescheduled to later today) because my brain is so addled from the complication and the fallout that I'm apparently lacking basic competence now (fortunately, the interviewer was chill about it). I think I'll be in a better spot for this afternoon, but I'm still a bit concerned.

The recruiter was very ambitious about my references...former manager had a one hour call, and the other two were 30 minutes.  VERY thorough.

Any of you (particularly Stadler) ever done a Kienbaum assessment? Apparently that is part of their pre-onboard process for high-level folks.  It's this 4.5 hour thing, that is part personality, part aptitude, involves a case study, and a bunch of other stuff, and is designed to give them an understanding of how they can best utilize your strengths, where some development opportunities may be, and how they can best do succession planning. It's proctored, too.  Seems rather intense, but at the same time I'm glad that they take talent development and succession planning very seriously.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #676 on: January 13, 2022, 11:33:18 AM »
I have done a fair amount of assessments through the years, particularly the standards - Meyers/Briggs, the StengthFinder program - but never the Kienbaum.  I did a quick search and it seems pretty intense.  I like that kind of stuff, but it's nerve-wracking; we're so conditioned to think in terms of "right" and "wrong" answers, but there is no right answer other than what's authentic to you.  Your record speaks for itself, and you got that far. 

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #677 on: January 13, 2022, 01:05:26 PM »
Any of you (particularly Stadler) ever done a Kienbaum assessment? Apparently that is part of their pre-onboard process for high-level folks.  It's this 4.5 hour thing, that is part personality, part aptitude, involves a case study, and a bunch of other stuff, and is designed to give them an understanding of how they can best utilize your strengths, where some development opportunities may be, and how they can best do succession planning. It's proctored, too.  Seems rather intense, but at the same time I'm glad that they take talent development and succession planning very seriously.

Yep....in fact, I just had a meeting yesterday with my departments Manager, my project manager and the company psychologist to review the results. It's fascinating how accurate the results of that test was as far as what type of person you are, how you're motivated....your work habits and what's important to you at work and at home. It was weird. But it does identify your personal strengths and weaknesses....to which, your company can then craft how to better train you and utilize your strengths. It also highlights what some focus areas of development are. Like I said...it was an intense batch of tests and yes....it's pretty much the full 4.5 hours. Lots of questions and the comprehension section makes you think way harder than you'd want to  :lol  At least it did for me.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #678 on: January 13, 2022, 03:47:42 PM »
Any of you (particularly Stadler) ever done a Kienbaum assessment? Apparently that is part of their pre-onboard process for high-level folks.  It's this 4.5 hour thing, that is part personality, part aptitude, involves a case study, and a bunch of other stuff, and is designed to give them an understanding of how they can best utilize your strengths, where some development opportunities may be, and how they can best do succession planning. It's proctored, too.  Seems rather intense, but at the same time I'm glad that they take talent development and succession planning very seriously.

Yep....in fact, I just had a meeting yesterday with my departments Manager, my project manager and the company psychologist to review the results. It's fascinating how accurate the results of that test was as far as what type of person you are, how you're motivated....your work habits and what's important to you at work and at home. It was weird. But it does identify your personal strengths and weaknesses....to which, your company can then craft how to better train you and utilize your strengths. It also highlights what some focus areas of development are. Like I said...it was an intense batch of tests and yes....it's pretty much the full 4.5 hours. Lots of questions and the comprehension section makes you think way harder than you'd want to  :lol  At least it did for me.

Thanks!  It sounds...intense. But I can certainly see the utility as long as it's in the right hands.  Works habits...oh god  :lol Are the questions about posting to DTF?

I have done a fair amount of assessments through the years, particularly the standards - Meyers/Briggs, the StengthFinder program - but never the Kienbaum.  I did a quick search and it seems pretty intense.  I like that kind of stuff, but it's nerve-wracking; we're so conditioned to think in terms of "right" and "wrong" answers, but there is no right answer other than what's authentic to you.  Your record speaks for itself, and you got that far. 

Myers/Briggs is...not great.  It's good for getting the ball rolling on introspection and thinking about differences between people and how those manifest, and maybe reducing value judgments about other people (though I found that it just gave me more precise wording to put to my existing value judgments and an excuse to validate them :biggrin:), but it's lacking in theoretical underpinning beyond some of the Jungian basics...they sort of pulled a lot of it out of their ass, and the folks who refer to it as "corporate horoscopes" aren't THAT far off.  Stuff like Insights, DiSC or LIFO (I'm LIFO-certified) are on a much stronger ground, have more validity, and are a lot harder to misuse.  I remember you (and I think TV?) steered me to StrengthsFinder when I was really struggling with some shit, and it was exceedingly helpful.  As far as the feeling about right/wrong answers, I'm past that with these types of assessment, but I have to pretend that I don't know what the questions are getting at, because I don't want to just wind up with a result that is consistent with how I want to see myself.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #679 on: January 14, 2022, 06:54:12 AM »
I've sort of gotten all I can from it at this stage of my career, but I've grown a lot through the StrengthFinder program.  It probably changed my (work) thinking as much as anything I've done (along with my MBA and working for Welch-era GE).   As much as it helped me, it's allowed me to help others just as much. 

Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #680 on: January 14, 2022, 03:01:27 PM »
I've sort of gotten all I can from it at this stage of my career, but I've grown a lot through the StrengthFinder program.  It probably changed my (work) thinking as much as anything I've done (along with my MBA and working for Welch-era GE).   As much as it helped me, it's allowed me to help others just as much.

For using it to help others has it been having them take it, pointing out to them how they've flexed their strengths in the past w/o realizing, showing how the org needs them now and how/where they can apply them?  Or something a little more intensive (e.g. career direction)? Or something altogether different?

--

Having a debrief call with my would-be boss on Monday. I think we're in the home stretch...
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #681 on: January 15, 2022, 11:59:49 AM »
I've sort of gotten all I can from it at this stage of my career, but I've grown a lot through the StrengthFinder program.  It probably changed my (work) thinking as much as anything I've done (along with my MBA and working for Welch-era GE).   As much as it helped me, it's allowed me to help others just as much.

For using it to help others has it been having them take it, pointing out to them how they've flexed their strengths in the past w/o realizing, showing how the org needs them now and how/where they can apply them?  Or something a little more intensive (e.g. career direction)? Or something altogether different?

--

Having a debrief call with my would-be boss on Monday. I think we're in the home stretch...

Well, all of the above, since they are all beneficial, but mostly in terms of my thinking.  The Strength-based approach leads to the idea of "capacity"; where are you in terms of your capacity?   The question isn't what do you do great and what do you do poorly, but what areas do you have the most capacity to grow and improve, and focusing on them.   I don't know what sport you follow, but it's like football; you don't ask a 6'6", 325lb offensive lineman to run deep post patterns and catch passes, and you don't ask 5'8" 185lb punters to play right guard.  But you might encourage that 6'0" 235lb running back to work on his/her hands to become a more dangerous pass catcher, or you work on that receiver to perhaps do kick returns. 

It may be pessimistic, but I do not believe every person can do every job to an equal degree. I don't believe that just "seeing someone like me" doing something is the key to unleashing my inner Thor.  Some of us have capabilities that exceed others (and those same "others" have capabilities that exceed ours).  I don't want a team that is five clones of me.  I want a team that is capable of filling the gaps I have and vice versa.   (And it should be noted, that part of the 'strength' and capability is an acceptance of that fact).   I don't know, I've never talked to him about it, but I would imagine that Belichick is a "strenghts-based" coach.

Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #682 on: January 16, 2022, 07:55:41 PM »
I've sort of gotten all I can from it at this stage of my career, but I've grown a lot through the StrengthFinder program.  It probably changed my (work) thinking as much as anything I've done (along with my MBA and working for Welch-era GE).   As much as it helped me, it's allowed me to help others just as much.

For using it to help others has it been having them take it, pointing out to them how they've flexed their strengths in the past w/o realizing, showing how the org needs them now and how/where they can apply them?  Or something a little more intensive (e.g. career direction)? Or something altogether different?

--

Having a debrief call with my would-be boss on Monday. I think we're in the home stretch...

Well, all of the above, since they are all beneficial, but mostly in terms of my thinking.  The Strength-based approach leads to the idea of "capacity"; where are you in terms of your capacity?   The question isn't what do you do great and what do you do poorly, but what areas do you have the most capacity to grow and improve, and focusing on them.   I don't know what sport you follow, but it's like football; you don't ask a 6'6", 325lb offensive lineman to run deep post patterns and catch passes, and you don't ask 5'8" 185lb punters to play right guard.  But you might encourage that 6'0" 235lb running back to work on his/her hands to become a more dangerous pass catcher, or you work on that receiver to perhaps do kick returns. 

It may be pessimistic, but I do not believe every person can do every job to an equal degree. I don't believe that just "seeing someone like me" doing something is the key to unleashing my inner Thor.  Some of us have capabilities that exceed others (and those same "others" have capabilities that exceed ours).  I don't want a team that is five clones of me.  I want a team that is capable of filling the gaps I have and vice versa.   (And it should be noted, that part of the 'strength' and capability is an acceptance of that fact).   I don't know, I've never talked to him about it, but I would imagine that Belichick is a "strenghts-based" coach.

Ok, more questions on this:
-I've only read two books on SF (what I think is the original, plus the leadership one)...what all did the program entail? It was clearly much deeper than the content of the book, based on how you are framing things
-Was this an "organizational language" at GE? Was it run by the internal Training group, or did outside folks come in for it?
-Was it something where you helped peers, or that you used in development of your own team?  Were you in a position to give (or negotiate for) developmental assignments for folks to explore/develop capacity?

The "capacity" framing makes complete sense.  It's one of those things where I can look back and see that there were people who saw certain capacities in me (that I had no idea I had) and put me in positions to see/develop them. It's also something I've done with others, even though I never put this set of words to it.

I don't think it's pessimistic to think that we're not all blank-slate clones..hell, it would be a dreary, depressing world if we all had effectively the same brains.  And from a business perspective, the diversity in strengths, outlooks, experiences, communication styles, thought processes, etc. is how we have creative, original ideas and avoid massive blindspots. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #683 on: January 17, 2022, 07:26:37 AM »
I've sort of gotten all I can from it at this stage of my career, but I've grown a lot through the StrengthFinder program.  It probably changed my (work) thinking as much as anything I've done (along with my MBA and working for Welch-era GE).   As much as it helped me, it's allowed me to help others just as much.

For using it to help others has it been having them take it, pointing out to them how they've flexed their strengths in the past w/o realizing, showing how the org needs them now and how/where they can apply them?  Or something a little more intensive (e.g. career direction)? Or something altogether different?

--

Having a debrief call with my would-be boss on Monday. I think we're in the home stretch...

Well, all of the above, since they are all beneficial, but mostly in terms of my thinking.  The Strength-based approach leads to the idea of "capacity"; where are you in terms of your capacity?   The question isn't what do you do great and what do you do poorly, but what areas do you have the most capacity to grow and improve, and focusing on them.   I don't know what sport you follow, but it's like football; you don't ask a 6'6", 325lb offensive lineman to run deep post patterns and catch passes, and you don't ask 5'8" 185lb punters to play right guard.  But you might encourage that 6'0" 235lb running back to work on his/her hands to become a more dangerous pass catcher, or you work on that receiver to perhaps do kick returns. 

It may be pessimistic, but I do not believe every person can do every job to an equal degree. I don't believe that just "seeing someone like me" doing something is the key to unleashing my inner Thor.  Some of us have capabilities that exceed others (and those same "others" have capabilities that exceed ours).  I don't want a team that is five clones of me.  I want a team that is capable of filling the gaps I have and vice versa.   (And it should be noted, that part of the 'strength' and capability is an acceptance of that fact).   I don't know, I've never talked to him about it, but I would imagine that Belichick is a "strenghts-based" coach.

Ok, more questions on this:
-I've only read two books on SF (what I think is the original, plus the leadership one)...what all did the program entail? It was clearly much deeper than the content of the book, based on how you are framing things
-Was this an "organizational language" at GE? Was it run by the internal Training group, or did outside folks come in for it?
-Was it something where you helped peers, or that you used in development of your own team?  Were you in a position to give (or negotiate for) developmental assignments for folks to explore/develop capacity?

No problem at all; I can talk about this stuff all day long. 

It's interesting; I have to answer the second sentence first:  there was no formal organizational language at GE, it's only in hindsight that I found this language to fit.  I first encountered this at the other company I worked for.  (For the record, I started with Company 1, left them after 10 years to join GE, went back to them after six years, worked for them for five years, got laid off, then went back to GE where I am now, even though my particular business was bought by a French company back in '15.)    They had a corporate leadership program developed in conjunction with the Army Corps. of Engineers.   It was very powerful, and changed my life; not just my work life, but my LIFE life.   For them, it was an organizational language, and I embraced it pretty well; they had rigorous testing (including some proprietary tests prepared for the Army COE, including a strategic thinking assessment that was mindblowing for me; I had/have proof on paper that I don't think like the vast majority of people on this planet). 

The content was pretty extensive; it was first the testing, but then it was an organized assessment of that testing and an open conversation - 3600, meaning with the employee, the supervisors and the reporting staff - to better frame the conversations that the employee was having. Now, not EVERYTHING was open conversation, but there was an explicit acknowledgement that not all staff did all things to an equal degree.  The information was presented in an organizational framework (that company called it the "Vanguard Program" and treated it almost as an internal, corporate "MBA" for employees).   So, to answer your third question, yes, it became a tool that got used at multiple levels.  I personally got invited to be part of the CEO's Strategic Planning Team - we would meet bi-monthly and discuss corporate strategic initiatives.  We used this language a lot in that context, especially when discussing how we thought the company might tactically achieve the strategies we were seeing.

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The "capacity" framing makes complete sense.  It's one of those things where I can look back and see that there were people who saw certain capacities in me (that I had no idea I had) and put me in positions to see/develop them. It's also something I've done with others, even though I never put this set of words to it.

I'm a big fan of this, and I am bought in, but one word of caution:  if dealing with staff and peers, it's like anything else, you all have to be talking the same language.  "Strength-based" focus doesn't necessarily fly with some of the more basic, feel-good tenets you see in the world today; I've written before that I find the "See it, be it!" mentality to be largely banal and trite, since it misses SO MUCH about how we as humans develop and grow.  You have to be careful saying to someone - and this is true the younger the person, in my experience - that someone has certain capacities and lacks others.  Some of this might be better considered "sausage making" and done apaquely.

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I don't think it's pessimistic to think that we're not all blank-slate clones..hell, it would be a dreary, depressing world if we all had effectively the same brains.  And from a business perspective, the diversity in strengths, outlooks, experiences, communication styles, thought processes, etc. is how we have creative, original ideas and avoid massive blindspots.

One of the things I really learned is how the hiring process can be (and is) at the same time random and unpredictable and perfectly predictable.   I can't tell you how many times I've watched managers (I say that very specifically, as opposed to the more positive "leaders") hire clones of themselves.   Unless the unit you're in is one-dimensional and has only one objective and goal, that's a recipe for failure.  Your sales leader, for example, ought not have the same skill-set, the same strengths, as your finance leader or your engineering leader.  SOMEONE on your team needs to be an exemplar of tactical thinking, whereas one person ought to be an example of a strategic thinker.  They are NOT the same thing.   I forget the exact term that Company R used, but they had a discrete category for those people that were "connectors"; you know the type: the people that remember every birthday, that have a knack for joining their friend group, that have a knack for putting disparate people together.  Mike Portnoy.  SOMEONE on your team needs to be a connector but not ALL the team can or should be.  You need those people that are single operators to get the work done.   

Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #684 on: January 17, 2022, 07:32:04 PM »
Talked with my would-be boss today, debrief on the interview process plus any other questions I had.  It became a conversation on which of the available programs I would rather lead (fortunately, my preference and hers aligned), which became about what my notice period needed to be at my current place, and talking a little about their offer and onboarding process.  And that an offer letter will be coming my way!  I'm not relaxed yet, still need to check a few boxes, do salary negotiation (via the recruiter), etc., but damn close...
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Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #685 on: January 18, 2022, 08:07:08 AM »
Thanks for all of this, it's really helpful (both conceptually and because the pending new gig will have components of mentoring to it).

I had/have proof on paper that I don't think like the vast majority of people on this planet). 

At first I read this as "I don't like the vast majority of people on the planet", and my immediate reaction was "You needed an assessment to tell you that?"  :lol


Quote
I'm a big fan of this, and I am bought in, but one word of caution:  if dealing with staff and peers, it's like anything else, you all have to be talking the same language.  "Strength-based" focus doesn't necessarily fly with some of the more basic, feel-good tenets you see in the world today; I've written before that I find the "See it, be it!" mentality to be largely banal and trite, since it misses SO MUCH about how we as humans develop and grow.  You have to be careful saying to someone - and this is true the younger the person, in my experience - that someone has certain capacities and lacks others.  Some of this might be better considered "sausage making" and done apaquely.


This hits pretty strong for me...we can't all be anything we want to be. I perhaps come at it from a different direction than you, but the notion that we are all blank slates or unmolded clay is just fucking wrong.  Whether it's some guru telling us that or a parent trying to turn us into something we aren't, it's just not reality.  We each have our own wiring that makes us who we are; that isn't to say that our fates are predestined, but there are some areas where we have the temperament, interest and capacity, and some where we don't.  There was no planet on which I was going to be a salesman (too extroverted) or an accountant (too detail-oriented & routine).

Agree it needs to be approached carefully, and not just for the reasons you gave.  Unless you have hard data and a pretty solid structure around this, it can be hard to see people and their capacities objectively, and to not be influenced by your personal feelings about them, or your value judgments about certain capacities/strengths/roles. There can sometimes be a temptation to try to turn someone into a mini-me, and that ain't great.

Quote
One of the things I really learned is how the hiring process can be (and is) at the same time random and unpredictable and perfectly predictable.   I can't tell you how many times I've watched managers (I say that very specifically, as opposed to the more positive "leaders") hire clones of themselves.   Unless the unit you're in is one-dimensional and has only one objective and goal, that's a recipe for failure.  Your sales leader, for example, ought not have the same skill-set, the same strengths, as your finance leader or your engineering leader.  SOMEONE on your team needs to be an exemplar of tactical thinking, whereas one person ought to be an example of a strategic thinker.  They are NOT the same thing.   I forget the exact term that Company R used, but they had a discrete category for those people that were "connectors"; you know the type: the people that remember every birthday, that have a knack for joining their friend group, that have a knack for putting disparate people together.  Mike Portnoy.  SOMEONE on your team needs to be a connector but not ALL the team can or should be.  You need those people that are single operators to get the work done.

One of the cool things about having spent most of my leadership career in matrix roles rather than as a direct manager is that I get to interview people across an array of functions with a wide range of backgrounds.  The thing that always sparks my enthusiasm is when I see someone as being a good complement to me (what skills/outlook do the have that I lack?  What would this working partnership look like?  What kind of balance does this person bring to the team/relationship?).

And yeah, you need all types..visionaries, strategists, tacticians, logistical-minded folks, planners, "lubricators", etc.  Plus you need some who are very action-oriented plus others who are more deliberative, and so forth.  It's all about balance and healthy tension. I want to know if I'm wrong or missing something, and I want to be able to say something when I think someone else is.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #686 on: January 18, 2022, 09:52:28 AM »
Holy shit, just got the verbal offer.  A 52% increase over my current comp, and a 77% increase over 15 months ago.  And equity at 50% of my base salary.  Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit.

But, to paraphrase Lone Star, I'm not just taking this job for money...I'm taking it for a whole shitload of money!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2022, 10:01:45 AM by millahh »
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #687 on: January 18, 2022, 09:56:59 AM »
Nice! So whiskey party when? :P
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #688 on: January 18, 2022, 10:00:45 AM »
No shit, huh.  Steaks on Millahh!!!!


Hey, seriously, really happy for you.  I'm glad for you.

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #689 on: January 18, 2022, 10:07:17 AM »
Whiskey party starts now!

Alas no steaks here tonight...J's pregnancy and properly-cooked steak (e.g. medium rare, edging towards the rare side) are not compatible. Under other circumstances it would be rib steak and duck for fat potatoes. I've done virtual happy hours with folks, could do a virtual steak dinner with you all?

I'm sort of in disbelief
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #690 on: January 18, 2022, 10:09:27 AM »
duck for potatoes.

I think I am finally starting to understand the source of the USA's obesity epidemic.
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #691 on: January 18, 2022, 02:49:43 PM »
Holy shit, just got the verbal offer.  A 52% increase over my current comp, and a 77% increase over 15 months ago.  And equity at 50% of my base salary.  Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit.

But, to paraphrase Lone Star, I'm not just taking this job for money...I'm taking it for a whole shitload of money!

:clap:    Awesome news!  :tup
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #692 on: January 18, 2022, 03:03:46 PM »
Holy shit, just got the verbal offer.  A 52% increase over my current comp, and a 77% increase over 15 months ago.  And equity at 50% of my base salary.  Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit.

But, to paraphrase Lone Star, I'm not just taking this job for money...I'm taking it for a whole shitload of money!

HIS/HE/HIM

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #693 on: January 18, 2022, 03:07:50 PM »
duck for potatoes.

I think I am finally starting to understand the source of the USA's obesity epidemic.

Millahh's salary?

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #694 on: January 18, 2022, 03:09:25 PM »
No, thinking that duck is a suitable substitute for potatoes.

(It was what we Brits like to call a humorous jest)
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #695 on: January 19, 2022, 05:41:57 AM »
That's fantastic news millahh!

Also, would very much be down for either a DTF virtual happy hour or steak night  :coolio
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #696 on: January 20, 2022, 08:31:41 AM »
No, thinking that duck is a suitable substitute for potatoes.

(It was what we Brits like to call a humorous jest)

I assumed that was a typo; I'm sure you know this, but duck FAT potatoes are a thing.  You cook the potatoes using duck fat instead of other oils, and it imparts a rich flavor to the potatoes.  Still probably a contributor to our obesity, but still....

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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #697 on: January 20, 2022, 08:34:02 AM »
No, thinking that duck is a suitable substitute for potatoes.

(It was what we Brits like to call a humorous jest)

I assumed that was a typo; I'm sure you know this, but duck FAT potatoes are a thing.  You cook the potatoes using duck fat instead of other oils, and it imparts a rich flavor to the potatoes.  Still probably a contributor to our obesity, but still....

I don't think duck fat is really any worse than other cooking fats, it's just yummier.  And I kind of like the idea of eating duck instead of potatoes.  God I miss eating duck, but a properly cooked duck breast, like steak, is off limits until the baby arrives...
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #698 on: January 20, 2022, 09:15:34 AM »
No, thinking that duck is a suitable substitute for potatoes.

(It was what we Brits like to call a humorous jest)

I assumed that was a typo; I'm sure you know this, but duck FAT potatoes are a thing.  You cook the potatoes using duck fat instead of other oils, and it imparts a rich flavor to the potatoes.  Still probably a contributor to our obesity, but still....

I'm not sure this joke was designed to withstand this level of scrutiny.
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Re: Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts
« Reply #699 on: January 27, 2022, 08:15:11 PM »
So, I did my Kienbaum assessment on Monday. That was...intense.  Intense but fun.  Potential derailers were on point...reserve/skepticism, and mistrust of authority  :lol  And overall, my read on my on strengths and styles was validated. I don't get the report util I'm an actual employee, though.

Something about it I found very beneficial (especially as I'm not part of the company yet) is that it forced me to think through my plan for the first 90 days. I mean, there's only so specific I can get since I know practically nothing about the program I'll be leading, but it got me thinking about approach, priorities, building my internal network, etc. All good stuff.
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